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[OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns

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  [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard) - 2026-11-04 12:27 +0000
    Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Don <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-11-04 14:14 +0000
      Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-11-04 07:22 -0700
    Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:35 -0800
    Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-11-04 15:42 -0500
      Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns bliss <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-11-04 15:55 -0800
        Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-11-05 17:36 -0500
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2026-11-05 23:01 +0000
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-11-05 20:51 -0500
            Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:01 +0800
              Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-11-06 18:07 -0500
            Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Don <g@crcomp.net> - 2026-11-08 18:12 +0000
    Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> - 2026-11-05 08:50 +0000
      Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-11-05 07:47 -0800
      Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2026-11-05 13:50 -0600
        Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:28 +0800
        Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-11-05 15:31 -0500
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns bliss <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-11-05 13:47 -0800
        Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-11-05 17:58 -0500
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns bliss <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-11-05 15:43 -0800
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-11-05 20:54 -0500
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-11-06 17:52 -0500
            Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns bliss <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-11-06 17:22 -0800
              All in the family (was: Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 08:49 +0000
                Re: All in the family William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-11-07 11:56 -0500
            Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-11-07 11:47 -0500
              Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2026-11-08 14:50 -0500
                Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-11-08 15:14 -0500
        Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:04 -0800
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 17:38 +0000
            Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> - 2026-11-07 09:26 -0800
              Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 23:50 +0000
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-11-06 10:05 -0800
            Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns bliss <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-11-06 12:10 -0800
              Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-11-07 10:20 -0800
          Re: [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-11-07 17:35 +1300

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#661721 — [OT] The Mother of All Government Shutdowns

What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
elections in the United States?
There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
Order.
Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
swear in the incoming Democrats.
But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
have is to cut off the money for it.
And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
possibility.

John Savard

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#661724

John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.com> wrote:
> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
> elections in the United States?
> There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
> change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
> Order.
> Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
> Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
> swear in the incoming Democrats.
> But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
> power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
> Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
> have is to cut off the money for it.
> And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
> are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
> last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
> possibility.

Bless you for asking, John.

AIPAC's clueless, congress critters enjoyed Speaker of the House Mike 
Johnson's mandatory "Epstein recess." But behind the scenes, Thomas 
Massie, master maker of sausage in the style of Bismark, crossed the
aisle to cook up a piece de resistance with Democrats. Massie found
the votes to put the Epstein Coalition back on the agenda after Mike's 
mandatory midterm "Epstein recess" ends: 

<https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/democrats-judiciary.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/2026-10.hjc-dems-staff-report-epstein-and-trump.pdf>

Massie will introduce a new bill that empowers all the fifty state 
attorney generals to independently pursue justice for Epstein Coalition
victims, regardless of what "the Feds" do.
    Massie's last bill (to open the Epstein Coalition files) passed by
unanimous consent before it reached the floor of the Senate. Because
even Mike Johnson isn't stupid enough to openly protect pedophiles.

Massie also says that if Fox News celebrity Pete Hegseth is smart, he
will immediately resign. Either that, or reality TV star Trump can tell
Hegseth, "you're fired!"

--
Don.......My cat's  )\._.,--....,'``.                     veritas    _|_
telltale tall tail /,   _.. \   _\  (`._ ,.               liberabit   |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'              vos         |

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#661725

Don wrote:
> John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.com> wrote:
>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>> elections in the United States?
>> There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
>> change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
>> Order.
>> Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
>> Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
>> swear in the incoming Democrats.
>> But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
>> power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
>> Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
>> have is to cut off the money for it.
>> And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
>> are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
>> last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
>> possibility.
> 
> Bless you for asking, John.
> 
> AIPAC's clueless, congress critters enjoyed Speaker of the House Mike
> Johnson's mandatory "Epstein recess." But behind the scenes, Thomas
> Massie, master maker of sausage in the style of Bismark, crossed the
> aisle to cook up a piece de resistance with Democrats. Massie found
> the votes to put the Epstein Coalition back on the agenda after Mike's
> mandatory midterm "Epstein recess" ends:
> 
> <https://democrats-judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/democrats-judiciary.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/2026-10.hjc-dems-staff-report-epstein-and-trump.pdf>
> 
> Massie will introduce a new bill that empowers all the fifty state
> attorney generals to independently pursue justice for Epstein Coalition
> victims, regardless of what "the Feds" do.
>      Massie's last bill (to open the Epstein Coalition files) passed by
> unanimous consent before it reached the floor of the Senate. Because
> even Mike Johnson isn't stupid enough to openly protect pedophiles.

I'm not certain this is good for America. To stand around yapping & 
pretending guys don't like girls? Maybe this is the why no one is having 
any children these days. They don't know where to insert into slot A. 
It's understandable, yet I contend, regrettable. US needs babies.
-- 
Sometimes I just feel like I need to get away
A place where I can be by myself, all alone
I kinda lay down in the back yard
Watch the leaves fall down on my face

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#661727

On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 12:27:00 GMT, quadibloc@invalid.com (John Savard)
wrote:

>What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>elections in the United States?

The most likely is nothing but a lot of hot air, per the Flanders &
Swann version of Boyle's Law:

the greater the external pressure, the greater the volume of hot air.

As to shutdowns ... any bill that can pass the Senate with fewer than
55 votes required (exact value to be determined when things
crystalize) the Dems can handle on their own. Republicans who manage
to cause a shutdown will shortly find that they, alone, are being
blamed. By everyone. Possibly even MAGA.
-- 
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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#661731

John Savard wrote:
> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
> elections in the United States?


Off topic political posts on this  group. clearly.


William Hyde

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#661732

On 11/4/26 12:42, William Hyde wrote:
> John Savard wrote:
>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>> elections in the United States?
> 
> 
> Off topic political posts on this  group. clearly.
> 
> 
> William Hyde

	We have those all the time election or no election.

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#661751

bliss wrote:
> On 11/4/26 12:42, William Hyde wrote:
>> John Savard wrote:
>>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>>> elections in the United States?
>>
>>
>> Off topic political posts on this  group. clearly.
>>
>>
>> William Hyde
> 
>      We have those all the time election or no election.
> 
It's still worth mocking the perps.

If you must post something political, at least add an SF reference, such 
as the elections in "Double Star".

I can't think of too many elections described in SF, which is odd as 
Robert Bloch essentially ran a successful campaign for mayor of 
Milwaukee as a young man.

William Hyde

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#661754

In article <11cj0de$21vm0$1@dont-email.me>,
William Hyde  <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>bliss wrote:
>> On 11/4/26 12:42, William Hyde wrote:
>>> John Savard wrote:
>>>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>>>> elections in the United States?
>>>
>>>
>>> Off topic political posts on this  group. clearly.
>>>
>>>
>>> William Hyde
>> 
>>      We have those all the time election or no election.
>> 
>It's still worth mocking the perps.
>
>If you must post something political, at least add an SF reference, such 
>as the elections in "Double Star".
>
>I can't think of too many elections described in SF, which is odd as 
>Robert Bloch essentially ran a successful campaign for mayor of 
>Milwaukee as a young man.

Well, who ever heard of an exciting election?

Kind of borderline: I have The Seersucker Whipsaw in the TBR pile.
It's about election hijinks in an imaginary African nation, one
candidate assisted by a white American from the South, and the
other by the CIA. Written by someone who was involved in Nigerian
politics and lots of other stuff.

-- 
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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#661758

William Hyde  <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>I can't think of too many elections described in SF, which is odd as 
>Robert Bloch essentially ran a successful campaign for mayor of 
>Milwaukee as a young man.

Isaac Asimov's _Franchise_.  Absolutely one of the best.

And "The Lottery" was not exactly SF and it wasn't exactly an election...
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#661766

On 11/6/2026 9:51 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> William Hyde  <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I can't think of too many elections described in SF, which is odd as
>> Robert Bloch essentially ran a successful campaign for mayor of
>> Milwaukee as a young man.
> 
> Isaac Asimov's _Franchise_.  Absolutely one of the best.
> 
> And "The Lottery" was not exactly SF and it wasn't exactly an election...
> --scott

I'm not sure Robert Langdon can be said to be /SF/, but he was involved
in a papal election.  I think that's one of the lesser known stories in
the series.

There is another papal election book I read earlier this year, but can't
recall the title.

So if anything, this is a missed opportunity in the body of SF litera-
ture.  The council of grand wizards can get just as nasty as papal elec-
tions when the new head wizard needs to be chosen.  Now that we have a
setting, I'm not sure I'll write it myself, but you can feel free to.

I'm not afraid of competition among the grand wizards, and am perfectly
capably of getting myself -- err, character -- elected as the head wiz-
ard, whatever the title may be.


Best wishes, and happy grand wizardry!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#661771

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson  <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
>I'm not afraid of competition among the grand wizards, and am perfectly
>capably of getting myself -- err, character -- elected as the head wiz-
>ard, whatever the title may be.

I'm holding out for Pope myself.  The apartment alone is worth the cost of
admission, I think.  And it's a sure thing for getting the girls.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#661824

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> William Hyde  <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>>I can't think of too many elections described in SF, which is odd as
>>Robert Bloch essentially ran a successful campaign for mayor of
>>Milwaukee as a young man.
>
> Isaac Asimov's _Franchise_.  Absolutely one of the best.
>
> And "The Lottery" was not exactly SF and it wasn't exactly an election...

Precedence does not imply provenance. Over a century earlier, Edgar
Allan Poe, sketches a situation similar to THE LOTTERY in his one and
only novel: THE NARRATIVE OF A. GORDON PYM. In it, four starving,
shipwrecked sailors select splinters to see who will serve as supper
to the survivors:

    At length delay was no longer possible, and, with a heart
    almost bursting from my bosom, I advanced to the region
    of the forecastle, where my companions were awaiting me.
    I held out my hand with the splinters, and Peters 
    immediately drew. He was free-his, at least, was not the
    shortest; and there was now another chance against my
    escape. I summoned up all my strength, and passed the 
    lots to Augustus. He also drew immediately, and he also 
    was free; and now, whether I should live or die, the
    chances were no more than precisely even. At this moment 
    all the fierceness of the tiger possessed my bosom, and I
    felt toward my poor fellow-creature, Parker, the most
    intense, the most diabolical hatred. But the feeling did
    not last; and, at length, with a convulsive shudder and
    closed eyes, I held out the two remaining splinters toward
    him. It was fully five minutes before he could summon 
    resolution to draw, during which period of heartrending
    suspense I never once opened my eyes. Presently one of
    the two lots was quickly drawn from my hand. The decision
    was then over, yet I knew not whether it was for me or
    against me. No one spoke, and still I dared not satisfy 
    myself by looking at the splinter I held. Peters at length
    took me by the hand, and I forced myself to look up, when
    I immediately saw by the countenance of Parker that I was
    safe, and that he it was who had been doomed to suffer.
    Gasping for breath, I fell senseless to the deck.
    
# # #

    "Patriotism is the Last Refuge of the Scoundrel"
    
# # #
    
    "The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of
    the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary 
    prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the 
    refuge of political and economic opportunists."
    
# # #

Inflation motivates behind-the-scenes political power plays in Perry 
Rhodan 280, THE SPACE DETECTIVES INTERVENE. It eerily echoes our
present political predicament. INTERVENE even has the likeness of a
horned demon on its cover to complete the corollary:

<https://www-perrypedia-de.translate.goog/wiki/Die_Weltraumdetektive_greifen_ein?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de>

--
Don.......My cat's  )\._.,--....,'``.                     veritas    _|_
telltale tall tail /,   _.. \   _\  (`._ ,.               liberabit   |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'              vos         |

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#661736

On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 12:27:00 GMT, John Savard wrote:

> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
> elections in the United States?
> There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
> change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
> Order.
> Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
> Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
> swear in the incoming Democrats.
> But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
> power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
> Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
> have is to cut off the money for it.
> And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
> are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
> last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
> possibility.
> 
> John Savard

By this time there should have arisen public debate about the
structure of the presidency itself, such as why it should retain
royalist holdovers like the power to pardon. Isn't the silence 
on this kind of odd?

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#661738

On Thu, 5 Nov 2026 08:50:00 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

>On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 12:27:00 GMT, John Savard wrote:
>
>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>> elections in the United States?
>> There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
>> change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
>> Order.
>> Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
>> Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
>> swear in the incoming Democrats.
>> But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
>> power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
>> Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
>> have is to cut off the money for it.
>> And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
>> are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
>> last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
>> possibility.
>
>By this time there should have arisen public debate about the
>structure of the presidency itself, such as why it should retain
>royalist holdovers like the power to pardon. Isn't the silence 
>on this kind of odd?

In addition to being Chief Executive and CinC of the Armed Forces, the
President is also the Head of State. This includes the power to
pardon, allthough recent stupidities may provoke change if anybody
cares enough to push it.
-- 
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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#661744

On 11/5/2026 2:50 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 12:27:00 GMT, John Savard wrote:
> 
>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>> elections in the United States?
>> There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
>> change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
>> Order.
>> Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
>> Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
>> swear in the incoming Democrats.
>> But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
>> power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
>> Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
>> have is to cut off the money for it.
>> And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
>> are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
>> last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
>> possibility.
>>
>> John Savard
> 
> By this time there should have arisen public debate about the
> structure of the presidency itself, such as why it should retain
> royalist holdovers like the power to pardon. Isn't the silence
> on this kind of odd?

The nice about the Presidency of the USA is that we change it out every 
4 to 8 years.  Nobody gets to be President for life, passing it to their 
son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it 
to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, 
passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their 
son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it 
to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
it to their son...

Lynn


Lynn

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#661745

On 11/6/2026 3:50 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 11/5/2026 2:50 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 12:27:00 GMT, John Savard wrote:
>>
>>> What is the likely consequence of the results of yesterday's mid-term
>>> elections in the United States?
>>> There has been much speculation. Some have said nothing much would
>>> change; Trump would go on ignoring Congress, and ruling by Executive
>>> Order.
>>> Others have been concerned about the possibility of a coup d'etat by
>>> Trump. Perhaps Republicans in the House and Senate will attempt not to
>>> swear in the incoming Democrats.
>>> But something has occurred to me. As in other democratic systems, the
>>> power of the purse rests in the legislative branch in the U.S.. So, if
>>> Trump does something the Democrats don't like, one resource they would
>>> have is to cut off the money for it.
>>> And in a climate where more extreme actions may be at issue, and there
>>> are fewer resources for a compromise, a government shutdown that could
>>> last longer than any has lasted before it would be a realistic
>>> possibility.
>>>
>>> John Savard
>>
>> By this time there should have arisen public debate about the
>> structure of the presidency itself, such as why it should retain
>> royalist holdovers like the power to pardon. Isn't the silence
>> on this kind of odd?
> 
> The nice about the Presidency of the USA is that we change it out every 
> 4 to 8 years.  Nobody gets to be President for life, passing it to their 
> son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
> their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it 
> to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
> it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, 
> passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their 
> son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
> their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it 
> to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
> it to their son...
To be fair-ish, that's just as arbitrary as winning a popularity con-
test.  I'm sure we can device better selection methods if we want to.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#661746

Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>The nice about the Presidency of the USA is that we change it out every 
>4 to 8 years.  Nobody gets to be President for life, passing it to their 
>son...

This is the wonderful thing about the democratic process.  Some people seem
to want kings, and the problem with kings is that sometimes you get a good
one and sometimes you get a bad one and it's hard to change them out when
you get a bad one.  And sometimes you get a good one and his son turns out 
to be not so good.

And this is why people in the international community are so terrified when
an American president buddies-up to people like Mobutu Sese Seko, or to 
Vladimir Putin, and then speak in public about how they wish they could be
"President for Life... doesn't that sound good?"

Thailand had for many years an amazing king who did a great job of keeping
the country neutral when everything around his country was collapsing.  He
managed threading the needle between Axis and Allies in WWII and then east 
and west during the Cold War and to some extent even the Vietnam War.  When
I was a kid, Thailand was a third-world country on the way up and today there
is nothing third-world about it.  But... King Bhumibol died in 2016 and his
son has been having a hard time of it.  He's doing better, but he's no Bhumibol.

When people talked to me about how they want a king who can just sweepingly
fix everything himself, for years I agreed that this can work because I
thought of Bhumibol.  But now I'm not so sure, because nobody lives forever.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#661749

On 11/5/26 12:31, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The nice about the Presidency of the USA is that we change it out every
>> 4 to 8 years.  Nobody gets to be President for life, passing it to their
>> son...
> 
> This is the wonderful thing about the democratic process.  Some people seem
> to want kings, and the problem with kings is that sometimes you get a good
> one and sometimes you get a bad one and it's hard to change them out when
> you get a bad one.  And sometimes you get a good one and his son turns out
> to be not so good.
> 
> And this is why people in the international community are so terrified when
> an American president buddies-up to people like Mobutu Sese Seko, or to
> Vladimir Putin, and then speak in public about how they wish they could be
> "President for Life... doesn't that sound good?"
> 
> Thailand had for many years an amazing king who did a great job of keeping
> the country neutral when everything around his country was collapsing.  He
> managed threading the needle between Axis and Allies in WWII and then east
> and west during the Cold War and to some extent even the Vietnam War.  When
> I was a kid, Thailand was a third-world country on the way up and today there
> is nothing third-world about it.  But... King Bhumibol died in 2016 and his
> son has been having a hard time of it.  He's doing better, but he's no Bhumibol.
> 
> When people talked to me about how they want a king who can just sweepingly
> fix everything himself, for years I agreed that this can work because I
> thought of Bhumibol.  But now I'm not so sure, because nobody lives forever.
> --scott

	Kings tend to fix everything for themselves.  I think
the USA may need a Prime Minister who can be recalled by a vote
of No Confidence.  Then he would be forced to to call for new
elections when he gets out of line exceeding as our present
disgrace has done when starting a war and attacking American
Citizens when he disagrees with their life choices. Or when he
starts a trade war with allies.
	
	And a chief executive officer of the Republic needs
some qualification beside having a smart mouth and having been
a sucessful actor.  IMO!
	Fortunately we have an amendable constitution.

	bliss- study, practice, experience

	
	

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#661752

Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> 
> The nice about the Presidency of the USA is that we change it out every 
> 4 to 8 years.  Nobody gets to be President for life, passing it to their 
> son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
> their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it 
> to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
> it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, 
> passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their 
> son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
> their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it 
> to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
> it to their son...

That is a nice feature.


But it's surprising how few monarchies - back in  the days when they had 
power - managed to do this for more than three or four generations.

In England the Tudors lasted three generations, the Stuarts four - sort 
of.    The longest successful dynasty in the Roman Empire may have been 
the adoptive dynasty of Nerva through Marcus Aurelius, at 82 years.

Constantine, for example, was succeeded by his sons, who killed one 
another, and by no male-line grandsons. Maybe he shouldn't have killed 
that eldest son if he wanted a long dynasty.

Rebellions, coups, simple murder, death by natural causes, lack of sons 
born, tend to end things pretty rapidly.

In SF long dynasties are generally due to effectively immortal monarchs 
as in Hamilton's "Exodus", or cloning.

Various hints in "Foundation" show that Asimov was aware of this. 
Dynasties in the Galactic Empire didn't seem to last long, nor did the 
Indbur dynasty on Terminus.

Then there's the constitutional monarch in Heinlein's "Double Star". 
He's House of Orange, a very old dynasty indeed and I wonder how long 
they've held that position in this future.  The impression I get is that 
it's been for a long time.  But he doesn't have much power.

William Hyde

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#661755

On 11/5/26 14:58, William Hyde wrote:
> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>
>> The nice about the Presidency of the USA is that we change it out 
>> every 4 to 8 years.  Nobody gets to be President for life, passing it 
>> to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, 
>> passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their 
>> son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
>> their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
>> it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, 
>> passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their 
>> son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing it to 
>> their son, passing it to their son, passing it to their son, passing 
>> it to their son, passing it to their son...
> 
> That is a nice feature.
> 
> 
> But it's surprising how few monarchies - back in  the days when they had 
> power - managed to do this for more than three or four generations.
> 
> In England the Tudors lasted three generations, the Stuarts four - sort 
> of.    The longest successful dynasty in the Roman Empire may have been 
> the adoptive dynasty of Nerva through Marcus Aurelius, at 82 years.
> 
> Constantine, for example, was succeeded by his sons, who killed one 
> another, and by no male-line grandsons. Maybe he shouldn't have killed 
> that eldest son if he wanted a long dynasty.
> 
> Rebellions, coups, simple murder, death by natural causes, lack of sons 
> born, tend to end things pretty rapidly.
> 
> In SF long dynasties are generally due to effectively immortal monarchs 
> as in Hamilton's "Exodus", or cloning.
> 
> Various hints in "Foundation" show that Asimov was aware of this. 
> Dynasties in the Galactic Empire didn't seem to last long, nor did the 
> Indbur dynasty on Terminus.
> 
> Then there's the constitutional monarch in Heinlein's "Double Star". 
> He's House of Orange, a very old dynasty indeed and I wonder how long 
> they've held that position in this future.  The impression I get is that 
> it's been for a long time.  But he doesn't have much power.
> 
> William Hyde

	In Dune we start with an Emperor sustained by the Spice.

	At the end we have God-Emperor Sandworm Paul Atriedes enabled
by the Spice.

	Gotta keep the Spice flowing and even to the Mutated
Naviagation Guild or Empire falls apart.  But the humans managed
to survive the wars with the Thinking Machines.

	I hope we survive the wars coming with the Fossil Fuel
exploiters and the Data Center demanders.

	bliss

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