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xkcd, "turkish deslight"

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  xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 12:12 -0500
    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 12:15 -0500
      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-13 19:31 +0000
        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-14 04:16 -0700
          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 15:12 +0000
            Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2018-04-14 10:09 -0700
          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 20:17 -0700
        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 21:04 -0700
          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-24 04:25 +0000
    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-13 10:31 -0700
      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" T Guy <tim.bateman1961@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 06:41 -0700
        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" T Guy <tim.bateman1961@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 06:48 -0700
    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 11:33 -0600
      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-13 17:53 +0000
        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-13 19:40 +0000
      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 12:57 -0500
        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-13 19:41 +0000
          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 15:53 -0500
            Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-13 21:20 +0000
              Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 17:23 -0500
                Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-14 00:20 +0000
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-15 02:28 +0000
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 02:52 +0000
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 23:14 -0500
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:06 +0000
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:55 -0500
                          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 11:32 -0500
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:17 -0600
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2018-04-15 12:59 +0000
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 15:03 +0000
            Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-04-14 04:57 +0200
              Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2018-04-14 14:26 +0000
              Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 21:23 -0500
              Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 21:27 -0500
                Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 22:10 -0500
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" peterwezeman@hotmail.com - 2018-04-14 20:47 -0700
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 23:21 -0500
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:23 -0600
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 23:18 -0500
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 05:07 +0000
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-15 01:57 -0500
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 15:05 +0000
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 14:22 -0600
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 21:01 -0700
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-04-15 14:49 -0600
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:36 +0000
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-19 04:11 -0700
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-19 04:55 -0700
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 20:55 -0700
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 13:27 +0000
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-19 09:50 -0700
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 20:09 +0000
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-20 23:43 +0000
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 16:48 -0700
                          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-20 20:20 -0700
                          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 00:40 -0500
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 00:10 +0000
                          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-05-05 14:12 +0000
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:30 -0700
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-19 04:46 -0700
                  Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-04-23 20:21 -0700
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-24 04:27 +0000
                      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-23 23:11 -0600
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-24 05:14 +0000
                          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-23 22:21 -0700
                        Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-24 13:33 +0000
                          Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-24 08:21 -0700
                            Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-24 15:56 +0000
                              Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-24 19:05 -0600
                                Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-25 03:59 +0000
                                Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-24 21:54 -0700
                    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 14:38 -0500
      Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-13 19:38 +0000
    Re: xkcd, "turkish deslight" T Guy <tim.bateman1961@gmail.com> - 2018-04-14 06:39 -0700

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#490294

On 2018-04-15, Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
> always thought of it as rat poison.

It's been a blood thinner for some time. 1954, says Wikipedia, in the US, 6
years after it started off as rat-B-gone.

ObSF: Brin, _Sundiver_.

Dave, no, I'm not saying why
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible	:( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#490333

In article <TtOdna_2YoZ8ak_HnZ2dnUU7-dednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
David DeLaney  <dbdatvic@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2018-04-15, Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
>> always thought of it as rat poison.
>
>It's been a blood thinner for some time. 1954, says Wikipedia, in the US, 6
>years after it started off as rat-B-gone.
>
>ObSF: Brin, _Sundiver_.
>
>Dave, no, I'm not saying why

Tease. Now I'll have to reread it.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490359

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

>In article <TtOdna_2YoZ8ak_HnZ2dnUU7-dednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>David DeLaney  <dbdatvic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 2018-04-15, Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
>>> always thought of it as rat poison.
>>
>>It's been a blood thinner for some time. 1954, says Wikipedia, in the US, 6
>>years after it started off as rat-B-gone.
>>
>>ObSF: Brin, _Sundiver_.
>>
>>Dave, no, I'm not saying why
>
>Tease. Now I'll have to reread it.

It's not one of Brin's best.  After you've read the two other
generally-accepted Uplift Wars stories, it fits nicely into that
universe.  I didn't like it much as a stand-alone.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#490927

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 3:22:46 PM UTC-5, Greg Goss wrote:
> djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> 
> >In article <TtOdna_2YoZ8ak_HnZ2dnUU7-dednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> >David DeLaney  <dbdatvic@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>On 2018-04-15, Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
> >>> always thought of it as rat poison.
> >>
> >>It's been a blood thinner for some time. 1954, says Wikipedia, in the US, 6
> >>years after it started off as rat-B-gone.
> >>
> >>ObSF: Brin, _Sundiver_.
> >>
> >>Dave, no, I'm not saying why
> >
> >Tease. Now I'll have to reread it.
> 
> It's not one of Brin's best.  After you've read the two other
> generally-accepted Uplift Wars stories, it fits nicely into that
> universe.  I didn't like it much as a stand-alone.

I read _Startide Rising_ first, then _Sundiver_, so I can't say how I would have reacted to reading them in order, but you're probably right that the first books reads better as the second.

_Sundiver_ _does_ do a good job of explaining some of the 'whys' behind the Galactics' rules, esp. with regard to planetary biospheres and why the Galactics only allow 'leasing' of worlds, not ownership, to a given species.

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#490368

Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> writes:

> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:paudcc$rdl$1@dont-email.me: 
>
>> On 4/13/2018 9:57 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>> On 13-4-2018 22:53, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 4/13/2018 2:41 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> In article <paqr2g$d52$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/13/2018 12:33 PM, Chrysi Cat wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/13/2018 11:12 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>> xkcd, "turkish deslight"
>>>>>>>>      https://xkcd.com/1980/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yup, Cinnebons is much better for bribery.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll grant the traditional version, tasting of rosewater and
>>>>>>> maybe almond, wouldn't be great. But the old-time Christmas treat
>>>>>>> "Aplets and Cotlets" are basically turkish delight with the
>>>>>>> rosewater replaced by apricot or apple, and *they're* delicious,
>>>>>>> so it's not the concept, 
>>>>>>>  it's the traditional execution. Well, and possibly also that
>>>>>>>  people 
>>>>>>> are annoyed by having to hold something covered on every surface
>>>>>>> by confectioners' sugar :-P 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No freaking almonds !  I am allergic to them !
>>>>>
>>>>> What a pity.  I practically live on them.  I'm about to eat Greek
>>>>> yogurt, blueberries, and almonds for lunch, because that's one of
>>>>> the small set of edibles that don't set my blood sugar soaring. 
>>>>
>>>> Yes, we all have our crosses to bear as we age.  I am not suppose
>>>> to eat blueberries since their high vitamin K content plays havoc
>>>> with my blood thinners.  But, I love blueberries !
>>>>
>>>> Lynn
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Switch to PRADAXA.(dabigatran etexilaat).
>>> No dependence any more on vitamin K.
>> 
>> I actually was on Pradaxa for three years.  Then my cardiologist told
>> me to read the article in the Houston Press by the ER doc.  Basically,
>> it takes three days to get Pradaxa out of your system and one bag of
>> whole blood to get Warfarin out of your system.  You pays your money
>> and takes your chances !
>>  
>> http://www.houstonpress.com/news/pradaxa-patients-cant-stop-the-bleedin
>> g-6594403 
>
> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
> always thought of it as rat poison.

I've got a friend with an artificial heart valve who refers to it as his
rat poison.

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#490392

In article <1b1sfg42lj.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>,
Joe Pfeiffer  <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:paudcc$rdl$1@dont-email.me: 
>>
>>> On 4/13/2018 9:57 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>>> On 13-4-2018 22:53, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 4/13/2018 2:41 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>>> In article <paqr2g$d52$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire  <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/13/2018 12:33 PM, Chrysi Cat wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/13/2018 11:12 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>>> xkcd, "turkish deslight"
>>>>>>>>>      https://xkcd.com/1980/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yup, Cinnebons is much better for bribery.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll grant the traditional version, tasting of rosewater and
>>>>>>>> maybe almond, wouldn't be great. But the old-time Christmas treat
>>>>>>>> "Aplets and Cotlets" are basically turkish delight with the
>>>>>>>> rosewater replaced by apricot or apple, and *they're* delicious,
>>>>>>>> so it's not the concept, 
>>>>>>>>  it's the traditional execution. Well, and possibly also that
>>>>>>>>  people 
>>>>>>>> are annoyed by having to hold something covered on every surface
>>>>>>>> by confectioners' sugar :-P 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No freaking almonds !  I am allergic to them !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a pity.  I practically live on them.  I'm about to eat Greek
>>>>>> yogurt, blueberries, and almonds for lunch, because that's one of
>>>>>> the small set of edibles that don't set my blood sugar soaring. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, we all have our crosses to bear as we age.  I am not suppose
>>>>> to eat blueberries since their high vitamin K content plays havoc
>>>>> with my blood thinners.  But, I love blueberries !
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Switch to PRADAXA.(dabigatran etexilaat).
>>>> No dependence any more on vitamin K.
>>> 
>>> I actually was on Pradaxa for three years.  Then my cardiologist told
>>> me to read the article in the Houston Press by the ER doc.  Basically,
>>> it takes three days to get Pradaxa out of your system and one bag of
>>> whole blood to get Warfarin out of your system.  You pays your money
>>> and takes your chances !
>>>  
>>> http://www.houstonpress.com/news/pradaxa-patients-cant-stop-the-bleedin
>>> g-6594403 
>>
>> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
>> always thought of it as rat poison.
>
>I've got a friend with an artificial heart valve who refers to it as his
>rat poison.

Well, you've gotta keep those rats from taking over your
circulatory system!

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490676

Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.

Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a 
healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any 
medicine will kill you.

Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.

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#490678

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 5:11:30 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.

Also, this principle applies to a different extent to different kinds of 
medicines.

Antibiotics are, etymologically, "anti-life" drugs. Yet, they're almost an 
exception to the rule. That's because antibiotics block metabolic pathways that 
*bacteria* depend on, but eukaryotic cells, the kind we're made out of, can 
happily do without.

Instead, their drawback is promoting antibiotic resistance among the target bacteria.

This is why we have so many antibiotics - while it's much harder to come up with 
good anti-fungal medications, and still harder to use medicines against, say, 
amoebic dysentery. The difference between fungi and animals is smaller than that 
between bacteria and animals - and amoebae are eukaryotic cells.

At the opposite end of the spectrum are cancer chemotherapy agents. 
Chemotherapy: the basic principle is, give the cancer patient a controlled dose 
of arsenic, not enough to kill him, just enough to make his hair fall out... and 
because cancer cells grow faster, and hog the body's nutrients for themselves, 
they will get a larger dose, and die.

Arsenic, as far as I know, is not used as a cancer chemotherapy agent, but the 
substances that are indeed are basically poisons to the patient as well as the 
tumor.

The typical drug, though, just "does something" - raises or lowers blood 
pressure, blood sugar, body temperature, whatever. If one is healthy, those 
things are good where they are, and bad if pushed too far either way. So the 
idea is to use a poison whose effects are opposite to those of an illness, to 
control its symptoms so the patient can live and function. It's naturally an 
imperfect measure.

John Savard

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#490926

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 6:55:12 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 5:11:30 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> 
> > Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.
> 
> Also, this principle applies to a different extent to different kinds of 
> medicines.
> 
> Antibiotics are, etymologically, "anti-life" drugs. Yet, they're almost an 
> exception to the rule. That's because antibiotics block metabolic pathways that 
> *bacteria* depend on, but eukaryotic cells, the kind we're made out of, can 
> happily do without.

_Almost_.

That brought to mind a story from 2015, about the dangers of over-trust in automated systems and antibiotic overdose:

https://medium.com/backchannel/how-technology-led-a-hospital-to-give-a-patient-38-times-his-dosage-ded7b3688558

Those dose makes the poison, to the 38th power.

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#490683

In article <c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.
>
>Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a 
>healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any 
>medicine will kill you.
>
>Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.

Paracelsus said back in the sixteenth century that poison is in
the dosage.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490691

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.
> >
> >Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a 
> >healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any 
> >medicine will kill you.
> >
> >Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.
> 
> Paracelsus said back in the sixteenth century that poison is in
> the dosage.
> 

I remember Bruce Ames quoting that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison

Kevin R

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#490718

In article <fc7e3a02-fdcb-454b-bca7-050d8f97abed@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com>,
>> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> >Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.
>> >
>> >Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a 
>> >healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any 
>> >medicine will kill you.
>> >
>> >Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.
>> 
>> Paracelsus said back in the sixteenth century that poison is in
>> the dosage.
>> 
>
>I remember Bruce Ames quoting that.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison

Oh, I remember him.  I used to work for a subordinate of his.

(She would not have liked me to call her that, but the heck with
her, she's dead anyway.)

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#490795

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com>,
> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.
>>
>>Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a
>>healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any
>>medicine will kill you.
>>
>>Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.
>
> Paracelsus said back in the sixteenth century that poison is in
> the dosage.
>

Strychnine's been used as an analeptic for centuries. It was first used
as rat back in the sixteenth century, before it was used as a stimulant.
(What is it with rat poison and medicine anyhow?)
    Back in the day, chemists used to taste test heretofore unknown
substances. So, who was the first guy to taste test strychnine, a
known poison? Was he a "Hey everybody, watch me stick my tongue on
strychnine" idiot?
    All of this medical talk as of late reminds me that
_The Medical Detectives_ (Rouceche) remains unread in my to-be-read
stack. Looks like a the perfect weekend to pick it up.

Thank you,

--
Don

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#490799

D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote in news:20180420a@crcomp.net:

> So, who was the first guy to taste test strychnine,
> a known poison? Was he a "Hey everybody, watch me stick my
> tongue on strychnine" idiot?

Beer has existed for millenia. Presumably, so have rednecks who ask 
you hold theirs.

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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#490805

On 4/20/2018 4:48 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote in news:20180420a@crcomp.net:
> 
>> So, who was the first guy to taste test strychnine,
>> a known poison? Was he a "Hey everybody, watch me stick my
>> tongue on strychnine" idiot?
> 
> Beer has existed for millenia. Presumably, so have rednecks who ask
> you hold theirs.
> 
"Here, hold my spear...."

-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.

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#490808

On 2018-04-20, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
> D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote in news:20180420a@crcomp.net:
>> So, who was the first guy to taste test strychnine,
>> a known poison? Was he a "Hey everybody, watch me stick my
>> tongue on strychnine" idiot?
>
> Beer has existed for millenia. Presumably, so have rednecks who ask 
> you hold theirs.

In the last century or two, It Is Said That chemists used to keep track of who
had just learned to isolate elemental fluorine by watching the obituary columns.

Dave, things I hope to never have to work with
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible	:( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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#490800

In article <20180420a@crcomp.net>, D B Davis  <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> In article <c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com>,
>> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.
>>>
>>>Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a
>>>healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any
>>>medicine will kill you.
>>>
>>>Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.
>>
>> Paracelsus said back in the sixteenth century that poison is in
>> the dosage.
>>
>
>Strychnine's been used as an analeptic for centuries. It was first used
>as rat back in the sixteenth century, before it was used as a stimulant.
>(What is it with rat poison and medicine anyhow?)
>    Back in the day, chemists used to taste test heretofore unknown
>substances. So, who was the first guy to taste test strychnine, a
>known poison? Was he a "Hey everybody, watch me stick my tongue on
>strychnine" idiot?
>    All of this medical talk as of late reminds me that
>_The Medical Detectives_ (Rouceche) remains unread in my to-be-read
>stack. Looks like a the perfect weekend to pick it up.

It's good.  It's one of my reread-every-couple-of-years books.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#491754

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:       
>In article <20180420a@crcomp.net>, D B Davis  <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>> In article <c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Quadibloc  <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.  
>>>>  
>>>>Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a
>>>>healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any
>>>>medicine will kill you.
>>>>
>>>>Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.
>>>
>>> Paracelsus said back in the sixteenth century that poison is in
>>> the dosage.
>>>
>>
>>Strychnine's been used as an analeptic for centuries. It was first used
>>as rat back in the sixteenth century, before it was used as a stimulant.
>>(What is it with rat poison and medicine anyhow?)
>>    Back in the day, chemists used to taste test heretofore unknown
>>substances. So, who was the first guy to taste test strychnine, a
>>known poison? Was he a "Hey everybody, watch me stick my tongue on
>>strychnine" idiot?
>>    All of this medical talk as of late reminds me that
>>_The Medical Detectives_ (Rouceche) remains unread in my to-be-read
>>stack. Looks like a the perfect weekend to pick it up.
>
>It's good.  It's one of my reread-every-couple-of-years books.

My read of _The Medical Detectives_ (Rouceche) started shortly after 
this thread appeared. (So it will take a while longer for me to get to 
"The Weapon Shops of Isher" (van Vogt) that Ted read in April.)
    _The Medical Detectives_ is perfect for me. It's medically themed 
short story sleuthing that offers plenty of opportunities to paw through
my _Dorlands Illustrated Medical Dictionary_ along the way. The idea of
known disease carriers living within a community unnerves me.
    Although it shouldn't. One of my former colleagues is an infections
disease doc. A few years ago he pulled a massive worm out of a Vietnam
Vet. (Actually some type of chemical concoction caused the worm to be 
excreted, if you must know.) The infection dated back to the Vietnam 
War.
    Imagine that. My stomach's rumbling. This seems like a good place 
for me to stop and grab some grub. :0) 
 
✍

Thank you,

-- 
Don

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#490700

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:c06ff2a3-4dc9-434b-ac63-f89c75040317@googlegroups.com: 

> Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin,
> you're dead. 
> 
> Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the
> body. Since a healthy body is all right where it is, too much of
> just about any medicine will kill you.
> 
> Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.

And poisons out of medicines.

-- 
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland: 
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
    -- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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#490677

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 9:10:46 PM UTC-6, Cryptoengineer wrote:
 
> Its wierd to me to hear of Warfarin being used as a medicine - I've
> always thought of it as rat poison.

As I said in my first immediate reply:

Well, yes. It's a blood thinner. If your blood gets too thin, you're dead.

Medicines - at least the allopathic kind - do things to the body. Since a
healthy body is all right where it is, too much of just about any
medicine will kill you.

Dosage makes medicines out of poisons.

In addition:

Even before I saw a TV show about beginning pharmacy students where on their 
first day this principle - that drugs are all poisons - was pointed out to them, 
I remember laughing at a John W. Campbell editorial where this principle was 
ignored.

He was writing about his experiences on medication for high blood pressure. How, 
if he took a little too much of it, he was incapacitated, but in a benign way.

And so in his editorial he suggested that there was an excessive prejudice 
against chemical weapons, because this was an example of how they could be made 
into very benign and nonlethal agents.

For one thing, if someone is incapacitated, say by pepper spray, then it becomes 
possible and even easy to kill him by cutting his throat with a knife.

But what I saw as I was reading the editorial was this - if you're using a 
chemical agent as a weapon, the dosage is going to be very variable. If you're 
using it to disable enemy troops so your men can safely walk in to their 
installation, you will have to make sure you've given all of them an 
incapacitating dose, or some of them are going to still be able to shoot your 
men going in.

If you do that, though, then some of those enemy troops will have had to have 
received a dosage several times larger.

A medicine that lowers blood pressure. A little too much, and you can't get out 
of bed. A lot too much... no oxygen to the brain, and death comes in a short 
time.

And I was just shocked that this wasn't *obvious* to him, so that he could write 
such a silly thing.

John Savard

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