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OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like

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  OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-25 19:57 -0800
    Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2018-02-26 10:06 +0000
      Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2018-02-26 07:42 -0800
        Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-02-26 22:26 -0500
          Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-02-26 21:44 -0800
            Re: Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-02-27 20:53 -0600
          Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2018-02-27 14:35 -0800
            Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-02-27 21:55 -0500
              Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-02-27 21:46 -0800
                Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-02-28 08:27 -0700
              Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-02-27 21:49 -0800
              Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like Panthera Tigris Altaica <northerntiger@outlook.com> - 2018-02-28 07:46 -0800
                Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-02-28 11:55 -0800
                Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-02-28 22:19 -0500
                  Re: OT suspected - Here�s what aliens probably look like Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-03-01 16:37 +1300
        Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-02-27 15:29 -0600
          Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-02-28 06:56 +0000
            Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-02-28 07:18 +0000
              Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-02-28 14:53 +0000
            Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-02-28 00:23 -0800
              Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2018-02-28 13:42 +0100
              Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-02-28 14:54 +0000
          Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-28 10:33 -0800
            Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2018-03-01 14:07 +0000
      Re: OT suspected - Here’s what aliens probably look like a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2018-02-26 10:17 -0800

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#487366 — Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like

On 28-2-2018 9:23, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 February 2018 06:56:32 UTC, D B Davis  wrote:
>> Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-02-26 09:42, Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:
>>>> On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 5:06:29 AM UTC-5, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 19:57:35 -0800, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The aliens, like humans
>>>>>
>>>>> "We have one example of intelligent life (not counting cetaceans,
>>>>> elephants, corvids, cephalopods etc) so we're going to generalise from
>>>>> that example!"
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheesh. They need to interview a more interesting class of scientists.
>>>
>>>> None of those have hands. Corvids might be able to use their beaks and
>>>> their feet, but without true hands they'll have serious problems. The
>>>> article actually mentioned cephalopods, which have even bigger disadvantages
>>>> than do corvids. First, being under water will be a significant handicap
>>>> to the development of, among other things, chemistry (and its sidekick
>>>> metallurgy) and electricity (and its sidekicks electromagnetic fields).
>>>> Second, they don't have hands either, and tentacles are notably clumsier.
>>>> Elephants and cetaceans are simply out of the running; an elephant's trunk
>>>> is just one, very clumsy, tentacle, making them even worse off than
>>>> cephalopods, and cetaceans don't even have that. No hands equals no hope
>>>> of developing anything even close to a technical civilisation.
>>>
>>> ObSFW:
>>>
>>> The issues of hands-free intelligent life are examined in some of the
>>> Known Space works, most pertinently in "The Handicapped".
>>>
>>
>> Speaking of the Niven's Grogs, there's Pard from _The Healer_ (Wilson).
>> Pard's only mobility is derived from using gravity to drop from a cave
>> ceiling.
>>      Pard's a small sentient parasitic blob that waits on a cave ceiling
>> for a host. When a suitable host passes underneath, he drops on the
>> host's head and transfers his consciousness into the host to form a
>> symbiotic mind.
>>      Pard, of course, requires a human host. But there's a slim to none
>> chance of finding humans on other planets.
>
> Is it established how Pard got up on the ceiling in the first place?
>
> There are ones in Star Trek that can fly around.  They look like
> undercooked omelettes.
>
I think the prop department did indeed use half-kooked omelets....

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#487369 — Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 February 2018 06:56:32 UTC, D B Davis  wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> Speaking of the Niven's Grogs, there's Pard from _The Healer_ (Wilson).
>> Pard's only mobility is derived from using gravity to drop from a cave
>> ceiling.
>>     Pard's a small sentient parasitic blob that waits on a cave ceiling
>> for a host. When a suitable host passes underneath, he drops on the
>> host's head and transfers his consciousness into the host to form a
>> symbiotic mind.
>>     Pard, of course, requires a human host. But there's a slim to none
>> chance of finding humans on other planets.
>
> Is it established how Pard got up on the ceiling in the first place?
>
> There are ones in Star Trek that can fly around.  They look like
> undercooked omelettes.

My memory failed me. Pard's no blob. He's more like a tiny tribble, a
furry, lichen-eating cave slug.
    Pard's officially known as an "alaret," a killing-thing-on-the-
ceilings-of-caves. Because the vast majority time alarets kill their
hosts with intelligence during the mental graft.

Thank you,

--
Don

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#487381

On 2/27/2018 1:29 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 2018-02-26 09:42, Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:
>> On Monday, February 26, 2018 Jaimie Vandenbergh  wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>> The aliens, like humans
>>>
>>> "We have one example of intelligent life (not counting cetaceans,
>>> elephants, corvids, cephalopods etc) so we're going to generalise from
>>> that example!"
>>>
>>> Sheesh. They need to interview a more interesting class of scientists.
> 
>> None of those have hands. Corvids might be able to use their beaks and 
>> their feet, but without true hands they'll have serious problems. The 
>> article actually mentioned cephalopods, which have even bigger 
>> disadvantages than do corvids. First, being under water will be a 
>> significant handicap to the development of, among other things, 
>> chemistry (and its sidekick metallurgy) and electricity (and its 
>> sidekicks electromagnetic fields). Second, they don't have hands 
>> either, and tentacles are notably clumsier. Elephants and cetaceans 
>> are simply out of the running; an elephant's trunk is just one, very 
>> clumsy, tentacle, making them even worse off than cephalopods, and 
>> cetaceans don't even have that. No hands equals no hope of developing 
>> anything even close to a technical civilisation.
> 
> ObSFW:
> 
> The issues of hands-free intelligent life are examined in some of the
> Known Space works, most pertinently in "The Handicapped".

One interesting to me, totally different viewpoint, comes from
Poul Anderson's "Trader to the Stars", where Nicholas Van Rijn
has overhauled, captured and boarded a ship they needed
badly.  But the 'race' controlling the ship had it's controls
securely locked, and then they vanished into the on board
'zoo population.

None of the on board creatures could possibly be the
ship masters.  It had to be a pairing, one creature
was very smart, and able to control a creature with
a body capable of both fine controls and good strength.

So, for example, have a smart crow, sitting on a head
of a monkey.

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#487456 — Re: OT suspected - Here's what aliens probably look like

a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/27/2018 1:29 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 2018-02-26 09:42, Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 26, 2018 Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2018, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>> The aliens, like humans
>>>>
>>>> "We have one example of intelligent life (not counting cetaceans,
>>>> elephants, corvids, cephalopods etc) so we're going to generalise from
>>>> that example!"
>>>>
>>>> Sheesh. They need to interview a more interesting class of scientists.
>>
>>> None of those have hands. Corvids might be able to use their beaks and
>>> their feet, but without true hands they'll have serious problems. The
>>> article actually mentioned cephalopods, which have even bigger
>>> disadvantages than do corvids. First, being under water will be a
>>> significant handicap to the development of, among other things,
>>> chemistry (and its sidekick metallurgy) and electricity (and its
>>> sidekicks electromagnetic fields). Second, they don't have hands
>>> either, and tentacles are notably clumsier. Elephants and cetaceans
>>> are simply out of the running; an elephant's trunk is just one, very
>>> clumsy, tentacle, making them even worse off than cephalopods, and
>>> cetaceans don't even have that. No hands equals no hope of developing
>>> anything even close to a technical civilisation.

Since the context is aliens, can't we assume that different
planetary environments will mean different selection pressures
and hence different adaptations? Say, fingers at the ends of
trunks or tentacles, or...?



>>
>> ObSFW:
>>
>> The issues of hands-free intelligent life are examined in some of the
>> Known Space works, most pertinently in "The Handicapped".
>
> One interesting to me, totally different viewpoint, comes from
> Poul Anderson's "Trader to the Stars", where Nicholas Van Rijn
> has overhauled, captured and boarded a ship they needed
> badly. But the 'race' controlling the ship had it's controls
> securely locked, and then they vanished into the on board
> 'zoo population.
>
> None of the on board creatures could possibly be the
> ship masters. It had to be a pairing, one creature
> was very smart, and able to control a creature with
> a body capable of both fine controls and good strength.
>
> So, for example, have a smart crow, sitting on a head
> of a monkey.
>


This reminds me that both Poul Anderson and Hal Clement did several
stories where the body types & capabilities of the inhabitants were
pretty well thought out from the setting/planetary environment -
Clement's Mesklin stories coming to mind, first and foremost.

Tony

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#487283

On 2/26/2018 2:06 AM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2018  <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The aliens, like humans
> 
> Sheesh. They need to interview a more interesting class of scientists.
> 	Cheers - Jaimie

OK.

IMHO, the alien in Flint and Spoor's "Boundary" and it's
follow-ups seemed quite interesting to me.

And Arthur C. Clarke was very creative in creating
aliens that lived on Mercury, Jupiter, and various
moons.

Hmmm.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_extraterrestrials

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrials_in_fiction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_extraterrestrials_by_form

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