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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #451778 > unrolled thread
| Started by | alal65536@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-09-20 04:13 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-12-05 08:19 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 257 — 38 participants |
Back to article view | Back to rec.arts.sf.written
What if life were like fiction? alal65536@gmail.com - 2016-09-20 04:13 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-20 12:29 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-20 07:41 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-20 19:24 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-20 19:55 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-20 13:00 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-21 15:48 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-21 17:17 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-24 10:28 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? alal65536@gmail.com - 2016-09-20 09:02 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-20 10:39 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-20 19:25 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-21 11:25 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-24 13:41 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 16:31 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-24 20:33 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-25 01:28 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 19:54 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-09-25 06:25 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-25 03:40 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-09-25 23:10 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 00:01 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-25 18:25 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-26 14:16 +0300
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-26 10:06 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-26 15:34 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 12:33 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-26 20:00 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-27 06:02 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-27 13:19 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 12:25 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-26 18:08 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-26 19:13 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-27 09:50 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-27 14:07 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-27 08:21 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-27 14:29 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-27 07:48 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-27 10:43 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-27 07:47 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-27 12:57 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-27 12:45 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-27 14:21 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-27 18:02 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-26 12:48 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-26 16:10 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-26 04:02 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-09-27 07:31 +0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-26 19:38 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-26 18:20 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-27 00:30 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-26 23:16 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-27 12:44 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-27 10:36 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-27 14:54 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-27 17:31 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-28 00:51 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-28 03:33 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-28 12:00 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-28 14:15 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-29 01:03 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-29 16:00 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-29 16:31 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-29 19:46 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 00:17 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-29 23:01 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 04:19 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 11:16 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 16:14 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 14:04 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 23:48 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 21:44 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 05:03 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-10-02 01:17 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 23:41 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 04:35 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 05:19 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-02 02:20 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 13:42 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-02 11:50 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-10-02 20:07 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 20:44 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-10-02 22:56 +0100
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 23:50 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-02 19:20 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-02 15:44 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 23:51 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-03 11:23 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-03 20:52 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-02 08:56 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2016-10-05 18:59 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-10-06 20:05 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 10:48 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:15 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-09-30 12:12 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:35 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 03:48 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 01:46 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-30 05:53 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-09-29 22:59 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-30 06:05 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 03:51 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-30 07:13 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 12:53 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-30 16:12 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 12:37 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-01 00:14 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 05:53 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 12:49 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-30 15:20 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:19 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 12:36 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 10:53 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 11:12 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 12:42 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2016-09-30 18:00 +0100
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 11:02 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:29 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:26 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 16:46 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 00:03 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 23:53 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 08:05 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2016-10-02 01:57 +0100
Re: What if life were like fiction? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 13:52 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 14:00 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 14:09 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Bill Dugan <wkdugan@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 08:23 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2016-09-30 18:01 +0100
Re: What if life were like fiction? Bill Dugan <wkdugan@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 12:00 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:24 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2016-09-30 21:47 +0100
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 00:02 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-01 16:18 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-02 02:33 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-30 10:58 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Bill Dugan <wkdugan@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 12:00 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-01 00:19 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 01:42 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-10-01 06:11 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 02:30 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 06:46 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 14:50 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 19:28 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 16:14 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 15:45 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 16:16 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 18:21 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 22:21 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-10-02 01:28 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-10-01 19:00 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-02 01:36 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2016-10-05 19:06 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-05 15:55 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-10-05 13:06 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-05 16:29 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-10-05 18:55 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-10-05 22:51 -0300
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-08 13:49 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-08 14:55 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-08 18:41 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-09 04:31 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-09 07:16 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 10:41 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-09 09:28 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-09 20:08 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-10-09 15:24 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-09 15:34 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-10-09 17:10 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-10 01:15 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-10 12:42 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-10 11:14 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-10-10 11:27 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 11:48 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-11 00:31 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> - 2016-12-03 18:06 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-03 18:43 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> - 2016-12-03 20:37 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-03 13:28 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-03 22:29 +0200
Re: What if life were like fiction? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-04 22:30 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-12-03 12:18 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-11 00:30 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-10-09 23:06 +0100
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-10 07:08 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 13:50 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-10-10 08:14 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 06:01 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 02:54 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 06:31 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 19:22 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-30 14:14 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2016-10-05 19:04 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 00:09 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 04:04 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-30 12:56 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 09:38 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Harmon <source@netcom.com> - 2016-09-30 16:01 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 19:56 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-30 21:52 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-09-30 23:57 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 00:52 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 00:57 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-01 12:50 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-10-11 22:48 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-12 01:03 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-01 08:49 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 14:12 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-10-01 11:45 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-10-01 14:56 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-01 11:26 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-01 11:44 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-01 15:49 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-01 22:22 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-10-02 10:01 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-10-02 14:25 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-10-02 20:46 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Harmon <source@netcom.com> - 2016-10-02 15:12 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-09-28 12:50 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-09-28 14:06 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-28 11:56 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-09-28 09:31 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 09:45 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-28 11:53 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 11:57 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-09-28 17:51 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-09-28 19:02 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-09-28 19:51 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-28 21:52 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-09-30 09:06 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-29 17:34 +0300
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-28 11:43 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-27 01:52 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-09-26 10:02 -0400
Re: What if life were like fiction? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-27 11:24 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? Madawc Williams <madawcnow@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 09:19 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-04 17:24 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-12-04 10:15 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-05 10:31 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-12-04 18:19 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-12-04 13:42 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 18:20 -0600
Re: What if life were like fiction? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-12-05 00:36 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-12-04 22:43 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-12-05 12:18 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-12-04 22:34 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-12-04 22:14 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-12-05 09:22 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-05 00:03 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-05 10:33 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-12-05 11:20 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-12-05 19:31 +0000
Re: What if life were like fiction? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-05 14:49 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-12-05 14:53 -0800
Re: What if life were like fiction? David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-05 12:35 -0700
Re: What if life were like fiction? "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-12-05 10:37 -0500
Re: What if life were like fiction? mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-12-05 08:19 -0800
Page 3 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 13 Next page →
| From | David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 12:57 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <nsefen$79l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #452267 |
On 9/27/2016 7:50 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote: > On 9/26/16 9:13 PM, David Johnston wrote: >> On 9/26/2016 7:08 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote: >>> On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 11:24:55 AM UTC-7, David Johnston >>> wrote: >>> >>> (Xander Harris as Joss Whedon's Mary Sue in BTVS) >>> >>>> I'm quite confident he wasn't. Mary Sues by any name are never the >>>> butt >>>> of humour or anyone's punching bag. A Mary Sue is a literary black >>>> hole, by which I mean that nothing escapes their gravity. >>>> Everything is >>>> about them. >>> >>> Whedon said he is, at least for Whedon's High School years. >> >> As already said, author avatars and self-inserts aren't automatically >> Mary Sues. >> >> > > Well, a self-insert wish fulfillment character is a Mary Sue. No, that makes Mary Sue a neutral categorization...and it is no such thing. Mary Sue is an exception to "no bad tropes". There are no good Mary Sues. Mary Sue was invented to describe a particular kind of bad writing, the kind where the story is entirely about how awesome and important the character is to the exclusion of actually writing a story with things like other characters with their own concerns...and a plot.
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 12:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <82682361-9c1c-4d64-9cda-8b2dc2b738ce@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452297 |
On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 2:57:40 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote: > On 9/27/2016 7:50 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote: > > On 9/26/16 9:13 PM, David Johnston wrote: > >> On 9/26/2016 7:08 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote: > >>> On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 11:24:55 AM UTC-7, David Johnston > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> (Xander Harris as Joss Whedon's Mary Sue in BTVS) > >>> > >>>> I'm quite confident he wasn't. Mary Sues by any name are never the > >>>> butt > >>>> of humour or anyone's punching bag. A Mary Sue is a literary black > >>>> hole, by which I mean that nothing escapes their gravity. > >>>> Everything is > >>>> about them. > >>> > >>> Whedon said he is, at least for Whedon's High School years. > >> > >> As already said, author avatars and self-inserts aren't automatically > >> Mary Sues. > >> > >> > > > > Well, a self-insert wish fulfillment character is a Mary Sue. > > No, that makes Mary Sue a neutral categorization...and it is no such > thing. Mary Sue is an exception to "no bad tropes". There are no good > Mary Sues. Mary Sue was invented to describe a particular kind of bad > writing, the kind where the story is entirely about how awesome and > important the character is to the exclusion of actually writing a story > with things like other characters with their own concerns...and a plot. So, what's a non-objectionable insert by the author: Self-Tuckerization? Kevin R
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| From | David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 14:21 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <nsekba$oo3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #452300 |
On 9/27/2016 1:45 PM, Kevrob wrote: > On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 2:57:40 PM UTC-4, David Johnston wrote: >> On 9/27/2016 7:50 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote: >>> On 9/26/16 9:13 PM, David Johnston wrote: >>>> On 9/26/2016 7:08 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 11:24:55 AM UTC-7, David Johnston >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> (Xander Harris as Joss Whedon's Mary Sue in BTVS) >>>>> >>>>>> I'm quite confident he wasn't. Mary Sues by any name are never the >>>>>> butt >>>>>> of humour or anyone's punching bag. A Mary Sue is a literary black >>>>>> hole, by which I mean that nothing escapes their gravity. >>>>>> Everything is >>>>>> about them. >>>>> >>>>> Whedon said he is, at least for Whedon's High School years. >>>> >>>> As already said, author avatars and self-inserts aren't automatically >>>> Mary Sues. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Well, a self-insert wish fulfillment character is a Mary Sue. >> >> No, that makes Mary Sue a neutral categorization...and it is no such >> thing. Mary Sue is an exception to "no bad tropes". There are no good >> Mary Sues. Mary Sue was invented to describe a particular kind of bad >> writing, the kind where the story is entirely about how awesome and >> important the character is to the exclusion of actually writing a story >> with things like other characters with their own concerns...and a plot. > > So, what's a non-objectionable insert by the author: > Self-Tuckerization? > > Kevin R > Author avatar is the TV Tropes-approved label. Literary people refer to a character who acts as a mouthpiece for the author's thoughts as a raisonneur. You'll be very familiar with the type if you've read Heinlein.
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| From | "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 18:02 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <nseq8p$h25$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #452297 |
On 9/27/16 2:57 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 9/27/2016 7:50 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> On 9/26/16 9:13 PM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> On 9/26/2016 7:08 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>>>> On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 11:24:55 AM UTC-7, David Johnston
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (Xander Harris as Joss Whedon's Mary Sue in BTVS)
>>>>
>>>>> I'm quite confident he wasn't. Mary Sues by any name are never the
>>>>> butt
>>>>> of humour or anyone's punching bag. A Mary Sue is a literary black
>>>>> hole, by which I mean that nothing escapes their gravity.
>>>>> Everything is
>>>>> about them.
>>>>
>>>> Whedon said he is, at least for Whedon's High School years.
>>>
>>> As already said, author avatars and self-inserts aren't automatically
>>> Mary Sues.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, a self-insert wish fulfillment character is a Mary Sue.
>
> No, that makes Mary Sue a neutral categorization...and it is no such
> thing. Mary Sue is an exception to "no bad tropes". There are no good
> Mary Sues.
This is not the only definition. The one that I (and that many other
people of my acquaintance in various fandoms) have been working with for
at least 20 years is, like all other tropes, that 90%+ are bad, but they
don't have to be. Erik Medon in _Polychrome_ is a Mary Sue, but many
readers don't think he's BAD.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 12:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <kquiub16hp68pnru3jb955dgt3cpiojs3q@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452175 |
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:16:26 +0300, Juho Julkunen
<giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Not all self-inserts and author avatars are Mary Sues, though. I'm not
>sure Xander really fits the description.
I like the way Clive Cussler does it. In one book, he was a bus
driver. He does not play it up.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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| From | "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 16:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <nsbvbu$i08$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #452203 |
On 9/26/16 3:48 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:16:26 +0300, Juho Julkunen
> <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Not all self-inserts and author avatars are Mary Sues, though. I'm not
>> sure Xander really fits the description.
>
> I like the way Clive Cussler does it. In one book, he was a bus
> driver. He does not play it up.
Actually, he does, and it became a more and more annoying and intrusive
part of the books. At first it was just a cameo, roughly like Stan Lee's
cameos in the various Marvel movies: he shows up and you find out his
name and that he has some hobby or something that is connected to the
real Cussler. Maybe he is in a race against Dirk in a classic car just
before the real action begins, that kind of thing. I didn't have trouble
with that, it was just a quick wink-and-gone that never affected the
course of events in the book.
But then he started to play a larger and larger role, becoming
basically a Deus Ex Machina character who'd pop up at critical points of
the novel to hand Dirk the information or material he needed to continue
onward -- and Dirk, normally the kind of guy who remembers something
clearly from 15 years ago, can never recall that he met this guy before.
It really became highly intrusive.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
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| From | Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 04:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20160925b@crcomp.net> |
| In reply to | #452126 |
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote: > In article <oE31pB.15L1@kithrup.com>, > David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote: >>In article <-dWdnST-mLb0EHrKnZ2dnUU7-YednZ2d@earthlink.com>, >>David DeLaney <dbd@vic.com> wrote: >>>On 2016-09-25, David Goldfarb <goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote: >>>> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote: >>>>>nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> I never realized that he was sorta Whedon's Mary Sue: >>>>> >>>>>Actually, for male people/characters, the usual term is Barry >>>>>(or Larry) Stu. >>>> >>>> I've also seen Marty. >>> >>>Whereas I'm used to Gary Stu. >> >>Right. I've actually seen Gary used, and never seen anyone use >>Barry or Larry. That was nagging at me but I couldn't bring it >>to the front of my mind. > > Anything that rhymes with Mary, really. The Trooper in _The City on the Edge of Forever_ was Harlan's Harry Stu. :0) Thank you, -- Don Kuenz KB7RPU 'Ave you 'eard o' the Widow at Windsor With a hairy gold crown on 'er 'ead? - Kipling
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| From | Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 07:31 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #452126 |
On 26/09/2016 8:01 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > In article <oE31pB.15L1@kithrup.com>, > David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote: >> In article <-dWdnST-mLb0EHrKnZ2dnUU7-YednZ2d@earthlink.com>, >> David DeLaney <dbd@vic.com> wrote: >>> On 2016-09-25, David Goldfarb <goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote: >>>> Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote: >>>>> nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> I never realized that he was sorta Whedon's Mary Sue: >>>>> >>>>> Actually, for male people/characters, the usual term is Barry >>>>> (or Larry) Stu. >>>> >>>> I've also seen Marty. >>> >>> Whereas I'm used to Gary Stu. >> >> Right. I've actually seen Gary used, and never seen anyone use >> Barry or Larry. That was nagging at me but I couldn't bring it >> to the front of my mind. > > Anything that rhymes with Mary, really. > "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, but Gary and Harry do. -- Robert B. born England a long time ago; Western Australia since 1972
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| From | "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 19:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jve8pig3wx2j.18jgs8xcskdmg.dlg@40tude.net> |
| In reply to | #452223 |
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:31:32 +0800, Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote in<news:e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> in rec.arts.sf.written: [...] > "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, They don’t rhyme in two of the three common varieties: they don’t rhyme for those who have a three-way distinction amongst <Mary>, <marry> and <merry>, or for those who have a two-way distinction between <marry> on the one hand and <Mary> = <merry> on the other. > but Gary and Harry do. With each other and with <marry>, yes? Brian -- It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss, haggisss.
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 18:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0266a8c0-dc28-4d99-9acd-ad38a9b2da4f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452225 |
On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:38:32 PM UTC-4, Brian M. Scott wrote: > On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:31:32 +0800, Robert Bannister > <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote > in<news:e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> in > rec.arts.sf.written: > > [...] > > > "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, > > They don’t rhyme in two of the three common varieties: they > don’t rhyme for those who have a three-way distinction > amongst <Mary>, <marry> and <merry>, or for those who have > a two-way distinction between <marry> on the one hand and > <Mary> = <merry> on the other. > > > but Gary and Harry do. > > With each other and with <marry>, yes? > For me, yes, but not with "hairy." Mary was merry, for soon she would marry. - The M words have 3 different sounds. Not always so for my many Midwestern friends. Northern Cities Vowel Shift, Brian? And "ferry" rhymes with "berry," but not with "fairy" which rhymes with "dairy." (A lot of folks in the Dairy State think those all rhyme.) Except, they may not hear themselves! http://preview.tinyurl.com/Mifsud-on-NCS which is http://tinyurl.com/Mifsud-on-NCS and resolves to http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2012/08/northern_cities_vowel_shift_how_americans_in_the_great_lakes_region_are_revolutionizing_english_.html Kevin R
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| From | "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 00:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1i25o6nzse1g0.8s40o2yglmdj$.dlg@40tude.net> |
| In reply to | #452239 |
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:20:27 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote in<news:0266a8c0-dc28-4d99-9acd-ad38a9b2da4f@googlegroups.com> in rec.arts.sf.written: > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:38:32 PM UTC-4, Brian > M. Scott wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:31:32 +0800, Robert Bannister >> <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote >> in<news:e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> in >> rec.arts.sf.written: >> [...] >>> "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, >> They don’t rhyme in two of the three common varieties: they >> don’t rhyme for those who have a three-way distinction >> amongst <Mary>, <marry> and <merry>, or for those who have >> a two-way distinction between <marry> on the one hand and >> <Mary> = <merry> on the other. >>> but Gary and Harry do. >> With each other and with <marry>, yes? > For me, yes, but not with "hairy." > Mary was merry, for soon she would marry. - The M words > have 3 different sounds. Not always so for my many > Midwestern friends. Northern Cities Vowel Shift, Brian? No, the Mary = merry <> marry and Mary = merry = marry varieties are the result of earlier mergers. You can read more at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Mary.E2.80.93marry.E2.80.93merry_merger> [...] Brian -- It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss, haggisss.
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| From | Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-26 23:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5fb37165-0637-44c0-97cb-1c265c7db6b3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452252 |
On Tuesday, 27 September 2016 05:30:31 UTC+1, Brian M. Scott wrote: > On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:20:27 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob > <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote > in<news:0266a8c0-dc28-4d99-9acd-ad38a9b2da4f@googlegroups.com> > in rec.arts.sf.written: > > > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:38:32 PM UTC-4, Brian > > M. Scott wrote: > > >> On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:31:32 +0800, Robert Bannister > >> <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote > >> in<news:e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> in > >> rec.arts.sf.written: > > >> [...] > > >>> "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, > > >> They don’t rhyme in two of the three common varieties: they > >> don’t rhyme for those who have a three-way distinction > >> amongst <Mary>, <marry> and <merry>, or for those who have > >> a two-way distinction between <marry> on the one hand and > >> <Mary> = <merry> on the other. > > >>> but Gary and Harry do. > > >> With each other and with <marry>, yes? > > > For me, yes, but not with "hairy." > > > Mary was merry, for soon she would marry. - The M words > > have 3 different sounds. Not always so for my many > > Midwestern friends. Northern Cities Vowel Shift, Brian? > > No, the Mary = merry <> marry and Mary = merry = marry > varieties are the result of earlier mergers. You can read > more at > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Mary.E2.80.93marry.E2.80.93merry_merger> Or imagine the Queen of England saying it... Or we could say that a rhyme doesn't have to be exact.
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| From | djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 12:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oE5y1E.zox@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #452257 |
In article <5fb37165-0637-44c0-97cb-1c265c7db6b3@googlegroups.com>, Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: >On Tuesday, 27 September 2016 05:30:31 UTC+1, Brian M. Scott wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:20:27 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob >> <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote >> in<news:0266a8c0-dc28-4d99-9acd-ad38a9b2da4f@googlegroups.com> >> in rec.arts.sf.written: >> >> > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:38:32 PM UTC-4, Brian >> > M. Scott wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:31:32 +0800, Robert Bannister >> >> <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote >> >> in<news:e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> in >> >> rec.arts.sf.written: >> >> >> [...] >> >> >>> "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, >> >> >> They don’t rhyme in two of the three common varieties: they >> >> don’t rhyme for those who have a three-way distinction >> >> amongst <Mary>, <marry> and <merry>, or for those who have >> >> a two-way distinction between <marry> on the one hand and >> >> <Mary> = <merry> on the other. >> >> >>> but Gary and Harry do. >> >> >> With each other and with <marry>, yes? >> >> > For me, yes, but not with "hairy." >> >> > Mary was merry, for soon she would marry. - The M words >> > have 3 different sounds. Not always so for my many >> > Midwestern friends. Northern Cities Vowel Shift, Brian? >> >> No, the Mary = merry <> marry and Mary = merry = marry >> varieties are the result of earlier mergers. You can read >> more at >> >> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Mary.E2.80.93marry.E2.80.93merry_merger> > >Or imagine the Queen of England saying it... > >Or we could say that a rhyme doesn't have to be exact. In which case we call it a "false rhyme." Is anybody else old enough to remember the old Bell TV programs? "Our Mr. Sun," "Hemo the Magnificent," et cetera? There were four of them (in black and white), and a fifth later on (in color), "The Alphabet Conspiracy." (With Hans Conried as the Mad Hatter.) They used the marry/merry/Mary contrast to prove that somebody came from the Eastern US, and using other isoglosses they pinned him down to New York City. -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com -- Dorothy J. Heydt Vallejo, California djheydt at gmail dot com
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 10:36 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c462f6c2-c032-4621-b3ef-b4845a9821b0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452265 |
On Tuesday, September 27, 2016 at 8:45:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote: > In article <5fb37165-0637-44c0-97cb-1c265c7db6b3@googlegroups.com>, > Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: > >On Tuesday, 27 September 2016 05:30:31 UTC+1, Brian M. Scott wrote: > >> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 18:20:27 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob > >> <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote > >> in<news:0266a8c0-dc28-4d99-9acd-ad38a9b2da4f@googlegroups.com> > >> in rec.arts.sf.written: > >> > >> > On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 7:38:32 PM UTC-4, Brian > >> > M. Scott wrote: > >> > >> >> On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 07:31:32 +0800, Robert Bannister > >> >> <robban@clubtelco.com> wrote > >> >> in<news:e4tpekFruddU3@mid.individual.net> in > >> >> rec.arts.sf.written: > >> > >> >> [...] > >> > >> >>> "Mary" and "marry" don't rhyme in my English, > >> > >> >> They don’t rhyme in two of the three common varieties: they > >> >> don’t rhyme for those who have a three-way distinction > >> >> amongst <Mary>, <marry> and <merry>, or for those who have > >> >> a two-way distinction between <marry> on the one hand and > >> >> <Mary> = <merry> on the other. > >> > >> >>> but Gary and Harry do. > >> > >> >> With each other and with <marry>, yes? > >> > >> > For me, yes, but not with "hairy." > >> > >> > Mary was merry, for soon she would marry. - The M words > >> > have 3 different sounds. Not always so for my many > >> > Midwestern friends. Northern Cities Vowel Shift, Brian? > >> > >> No, the Mary = merry <> marry and Mary = merry = marry > >> varieties are the result of earlier mergers. You can read > >> more at > >> > >> > ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Mary.E2.80.93marry.E2.80.93merry_merger> > > > >Or imagine the Queen of England saying it... > > > >Or we could say that a rhyme doesn't have to be exact. > > In which case we call it a "false rhyme." > > Is anybody else old enough to remember the old Bell TV programs? > "Our Mr. Sun," "Hemo the Magnificent," et cetera? There were > four of them (in black and white), and a fifth later on (in > color), "The Alphabet Conspiracy." (With Hans Conried as the Mad > Hatter.) They used the marry/merry/Mary contrast to prove that > somebody came from the Eastern US, and using other isoglosses > they pinned him down to New York City. > ... and both my parents are from the boroughs (Brooklyn and Queens) and I grew up east of there, among many NYC transplants and their children. The sisters who taught us in grammar school were mostly from Massachusetts and Maryland. The mother house was located in Fall River, MA. We always had fun mimicking "FAHL RivAH" and "Balmur, Murlan." But I suspect their presence mitigated some of the Lawn Guylandisms in my speech. I rarely say "youse guys," for instance. :) The order of sisters who staffed our high school were HQed in Halifax, Nova Scotia, but there wasn't a heavy Canadian influence there. Most of the nuns were from New England, and we had as many lay teachers as religious, and they were mostly locals. Kevin R
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| From | Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 14:54 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <42glubtc1f0ife9tr2jtd9u6nna04n2r4e@reader80.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #452289 |
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote: > We always had fun mimicking "FAHL RivAH" and "Balmur, >Murlan." Jack Chalker used to say he lived in Curl Canny Merlin -- i.e., Carroll County, Maryland. -- My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
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| From | David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-27 17:31 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <7-ydnXo8XrvQbnfKnZ2dnUU7-VGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #452296 |
On 2016-09-27, Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: > Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote: >> We always had fun mimicking "FAHL RivAH" and "Balmur, Murlan." > > Jack Chalker used to say he lived in Curl Canny Merlin -- i.e., > Carroll County, Maryland. And this is the South so it's less surprising, but there's a town not too far south of me called Murravul, TinaSEE. Dave, * "Maryville, Tennessee" -- \/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> website on VIC is down, probably for good - oh well/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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| From | Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-28 00:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <nqimubh9ipji2nq3nkvrl1q93sklm0ll1j@reader80.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #452309 |
On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:31:41 -0500, David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote: >On 2016-09-27, Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: >> Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote: >>> We always had fun mimicking "FAHL RivAH" and "Balmur, Murlan." >> >> Jack Chalker used to say he lived in Curl Canny Merlin -- i.e., >> Carroll County, Maryland. > >And this is the South so it's less surprising, but there's a town not too >far south of me called Murravul, TinaSEE. I used to live in Kentucky. To the west of us we had Versailles, pronounced "Vursails," and Louisville, pronounced "Looavul." I once got a phone call from a political campaign, on behalf of someone running for state office, and the person making the call pronounced the state's name "Mary Land." You'd think they'd go to the trouble to make sure the phone bank person (who, from her accent, I suspect was in Detroit) knew how to pronounce the state she was calling. -- My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-28 03:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b7dc1af7-de60-4d0f-8d0b-423c2744c4c9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #452329 |
On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 12:51:48 AM UTC-4, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote: > On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 17:31:41 -0500, David DeLaney > <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> wrote: > > >On 2016-09-27, Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: > >> Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote: > >>> We always had fun mimicking "FAHL RivAH" and "Balmur, Murlan." > >> > >> Jack Chalker used to say he lived in Curl Canny Merlin -- i.e., > >> Carroll County, Maryland. > > > >And this is the South so it's less surprising, but there's a town not too > >far south of me called Murravul, TinaSEE. > > I used to live in Kentucky. To the west of us we had Versailles, > pronounced "Vursails," and Louisville, pronounced "Looavul." > I had a history prof from KY who taught us to say "Lullvul." I wondered if that was a comment on how lively the city was. Like Indian No Place, Innyanna. > I once got a phone call from a political campaign, on behalf of > someone running for state office, and the person making the call > pronounced the state's name "Mary Land." You'd think they'd go to the > trouble to make sure the phone bank person (who, from her accent, I > suspect was in Detroit) knew how to pronounce the state she was > calling. Campaigns use who they can afford. The caller may have been a volunteer, or a low-paid worker warming a chair in a call center, possibly half a world away. Kevin R
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| From | Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-28 12:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <a6qnubpenbra32aaidfsdo1ukmr0bvn267@reader80.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #452332 |
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 03:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote: >On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 12:51:48 AM UTC-4, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote: > >> I once got a phone call from a political campaign, on behalf of >> someone running for state office, and the person making the call >> pronounced the state's name "Mary Land." You'd think they'd go to the >> trouble to make sure the phone bank person (who, from her accent, I >> suspect was in Detroit) knew how to pronounce the state she was >> calling. > >Campaigns use who they can afford. The caller may have been >a volunteer, or a low-paid worker warming a chair in a call >center, possibly half a world away. Oh, I assumed a low-paid worker. I still think they should have made sure she knew how to pronounce, "Are you a registered Maryland voter?" -- My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
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| From | Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-28 14:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jmcoubd8g2pu6uauv4fj2nesgvpiegalki@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #452340 |
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 12:00:10 -0400, Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 03:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 12:51:48 AM UTC-4, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>
>>> I once got a phone call from a political campaign, on behalf of
>>> someone running for state office, and the person making the call
>>> pronounced the state's name "Mary Land." You'd think they'd go to the
>>> trouble to make sure the phone bank person (who, from her accent, I
>>> suspect was in Detroit) knew how to pronounce the state she was
>>> calling.
>>
>>Campaigns use who they can afford. The caller may have been
>>a volunteer, or a low-paid worker warming a chair in a call
>>center, possibly half a world away.
>
>Oh, I assumed a low-paid worker. I still think they should have made
>sure she knew how to pronounce, "Are you a registered Maryland voter?"
It is the sort of thing that people can easily miss. Do you
*normally* consider how other people will pronounce something?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
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