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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #439256 > unrolled thread
| Started by | michael <me@here.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-01 00:26 -0500 |
| Last post | 2016-05-07 14:40 -0700 |
| Articles | 18 on this page of 138 — 35 participants |
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Creative Political Systems in SF michael <me@here.com> - 2016-05-01 00:26 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-01 08:01 +0100
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-01 21:29 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 14:55 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:20 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 20:57 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 19:11 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:47 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 21:06 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-03 08:32 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:33 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 20:02 +0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 20:48 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:51 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-03 08:35 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 20:14 +0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-05-04 12:17 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 12:30 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-04 20:03 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-04 13:57 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-05 10:24 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 22:38 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-05 06:03 +0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 07:08 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-05 15:14 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 15:54 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 17:03 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 20:27 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-06 10:16 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:15 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-05-01 23:52 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 21:10 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "cycjec"<cycjec@freeshell.INVALID> - 2016-05-04 13:32 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-01 07:41 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 10:24 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 11:23 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 11:56 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 16:57 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:12 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-02 07:32 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 19:59 +0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 17:00 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-10 14:23 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:05 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-01 18:30 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF michael <me@here.com> - 2016-05-03 19:32 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-04 19:56 +0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-05-07 13:50 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 09:17 +0200
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 14:15 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-09 22:56 +0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 15:02 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-09 13:57 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-05-09 21:00 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-05-09 18:09 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-09 18:52 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-09 19:35 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 09:37 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-10 12:06 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 16:06 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-09 19:11 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 09:36 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-10 12:04 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-10 13:11 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-09 21:45 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-09 21:39 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-09 15:26 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-09 18:14 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 13:56 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-01 13:07 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 15:10 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 17:00 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 16:11 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-01 18:12 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:26 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-02 08:56 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-01 19:40 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-01 18:21 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-01 22:57 -0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-01 21:33 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-01 22:33 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 06:54 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-06 17:18 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-06 17:58 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:14 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:27 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-05-07 10:05 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-07 17:29 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 17:04 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2016-05-06 23:04 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-07 04:53 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kay Shapero <kay@invalid.net> - 2016-05-07 20:55 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 00:07 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-09 10:11 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-05-09 10:08 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-07 14:25 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-08 04:52 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-08 15:37 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-09 02:20 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-09 17:44 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 11:06 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-06 22:08 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-07 00:19 -0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2016-05-07 00:21 -0300
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:22 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-07 08:37 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-05-07 14:29 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-09 16:34 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-10 08:52 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-09 18:48 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-05-09 20:31 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-11 08:33 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-11 05:42 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-05-11 18:31 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-06 16:30 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-05-07 00:09 -0400
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2016-05-07 11:48 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:28 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-07 09:43 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-05-02 03:55 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-07 16:56 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-07 19:30 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> - 2016-05-02 08:47 +0800
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-02 11:23 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2016-05-02 15:18 -0600
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-05-03 02:11 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-05-03 21:35 +0100
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 17:44 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-03 03:57 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-05-03 04:10 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-05-06 22:48 +0000
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 11:52 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-04 17:12 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2016-05-04 17:51 -0500
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-05-04 16:56 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-05-06 16:45 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-05-07 07:09 -0700
Re: Creative Political Systems in SF patmpowers@gmail.com - 2016-05-07 14:40 -0700
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 16:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c54b5ed8-480b-493c-abc1-ba38054faa69@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439297 |
On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 12:23:43 PM UTC-6, patmp...@gmail.com wrote: > It is such a strange problem for a system to have: abundance and surplus leads > to conflict. Everybody is supposed to work hard, but they can't. There is not > enough work to be done. I think this is the basis of the current unrest. Actually, our current economic problem is an old one, not a new one, and it is caused by scarcity, not abundance. Unemployment basically results from people not having enough resources available to be able to translate their labor into wealth. If, when factories closed down, the people working on them could just go off and support themselves by hunting and fishing, then they wouldn't need "handouts", there wouldn't be unrest, there wouldn't be a problem. But there is no longer enough land available where people can go and hunt and fish to live - the population has increased to a level that deprives people of this choice, and forces them to be dependent on employers if they aren't landowners. Much of the debate between "free enterprise" and "socialism" simply ignores the limits to the environment. John Savard
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| From | patmpowers@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 19:30 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <42747957-2cb8-414c-9b54-a5d844dad383@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439750 |
On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 7:57:01 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote: > On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 12:23:43 PM UTC-6, patmp...@gmail.com wrote: > > It is such a strange problem for a system to have: abundance and surplus leads > > to conflict. Everybody is supposed to work hard, but they can't. There is not > > enough work to be done. I think this is the basis of the current unrest. > > Actually, our current economic problem is an old one, not a new one, and it is > caused by scarcity, not abundance. > > Unemployment basically results from people not having enough resources > available to be able to translate their labor into wealth. > > If, when factories closed down, the people working on them could just go off > and support themselves by hunting and fishing, then they wouldn't need > "handouts", there wouldn't be unrest, there wouldn't be a problem. But there is > no longer enough land available where people can go and hunt and fish to live - > the population has increased to a level that deprives people of this choice, > and forces them to be dependent on employers if they aren't landowners. > > Much of the debate between "free enterprise" and "socialism" simply ignores the > limits to the environment. > > John Savard No arguments there. In colonial days there was sometimes difficulty in getting the natives to work for the colonialists. They were self-sufficient and not interested in what the colonizer had to sell. So a tax was imposed. The natives had to work to pay the tax.
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| From | Robert Bannister <robban@clubtelco.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-02 08:47 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <donmcoFdnbkU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #439256 |
On 1/05/2016 1:26 PM, michael wrote: > I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. When you say "Facebook", perhaps you don't control who accesses your Facebook page strictly enough, or perhaps you just stickybeak other people's pages. My "Facebook" is entirely family and very close friends and politics only comes in when somebody finds something particularly funny. Facebook has its faults, but politics are put there not by FB but by people and if you invite people like that to your Facebook page, it really is your own fault. -- Robert B. born England a long time ago; Western Australia since 1972
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| From | Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-02 11:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5010a6ea-f3cc-4d3a-a063-f8fdb637f81e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439256 |
On Sunday, 1 May 2016 06:26:16 UTC+1, michael wrote: > I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > > Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > > Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > election cycle? Joe Haldeman's _Buying Time_ aka _The Long Habit of Living_ has some action set in "The Conch Republic", which according to <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic> "has multiple issues". I don't know whether Professor Haldeman invented the backstory where the secessionists read aloud each page of the American legal code to be voted yea or nay by the people assembled in the saloon, with some unexpected consequences when whatever was on the other side of the page was by default also rejected.
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| From | David Johnston <David@block.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-02 15:18 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <ng8g0j$tig$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #439256 |
On 4/30/2016 11:26 PM, michael wrote: > I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > > Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > > Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > election cycle? > Piers Anthony had that book where the militaries of two opposing worlds decided that rather than fight, they would jointly agree to conquer each other's planets in order to fulfill Anthony's favourite fantasy, "eliminating all the useless eaters". You'll note that he goes back to this theme again, again, and again, people who are deemed to be valueless by a ruling oligarchy and are therefore eliminated from society by exile or execution. There was another book where society was ruled by a computer intelligence programmed by destructively uploading human minds who were democratically elected for the "honor". Margaret Weis did an ersatz French Revolution IN SPACE but here the "aristocrats" were actually genetically engineered to be "superior" and the only reason the revolution succeeded is because the leader of the revolution was another aristocrat. Isaac Asimov did a short story where every term a single voter was selected by computer as the most perfectly representative voter, and therefore the only one to actually vote. (Which reflects HIS recurrent theme, making critical decisions through statistical projections)
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| From | Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-03 02:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <471cb23a-3b44-4298-9f6d-9ba7b09fc5f8@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439467 |
On Monday, 2 May 2016 22:18:31 UTC+1, David Johnston wrote: > Piers Anthony had that book where the militaries of two opposing worlds > decided that rather than fight, they would jointly agree to conquer each > other's planets in order to fulfill Anthony's favourite fantasy, > "eliminating all the useless eaters". You'll note that he goes back to > this theme again, again, and again, people who are deemed to be > valueless by a ruling oligarchy and are therefore eliminated from > society by exile or execution. Star Trek had an episode about someone like that. Also: <http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrincham> (May be not the best place to look, and misses out the full explanation of the Great Circling Poets of Arium, which is quite a good bit) "Tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things, and the B ark would hold everyone else, such as hairdressers and telephone sanitizers. They sent the B ship off first, but of course the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone." And where did the B ship land, boys and girls? "Well, not so much land..." Let's say crash-land. What planet did the survivors colonise? Oh. You've heard.
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| From | Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-03 21:35 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <9r2iib92q9315gkeh5skvahgohi31ktqji@jwbrown.co.uk> |
| In reply to | #439497 |
On Tue, 3 May 2016 02:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: >On Monday, 2 May 2016 22:18:31 UTC+1, David Johnston wrote: >> Piers Anthony had that book where the militaries of two opposing worlds >> decided that rather than fight, they would jointly agree to conquer each >> other's planets in order to fulfill Anthony's favourite fantasy, >> "eliminating all the useless eaters". You'll note that he goes back to >> this theme again, again, and again, people who are deemed to be >> valueless by a ruling oligarchy and are therefore eliminated from >> society by exile or execution. > >Star Trek had an episode about someone like that. > >Also: <http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrincham> > >(May be not the best place to look, and misses out the full >explanation of the Great Circling Poets of Arium, which is >quite a good bit) > >"Tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to >rid themselves of an entire useless third of their >population. The story was that they would build three >Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, >scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would >contain all the people who made things and did things, >and the B ark would hold everyone else, such as >hairdressers and telephone sanitizers. They sent the >B ship off first, but of course the other two-thirds >of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, >rich and happy lives until they were all wiped out by >a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone." > >And where did the B ship land, boys and girls? >"Well, not so much land..." Let's say crash-land. >What planet did the survivors colonise? Fintelwoodlewix >Oh. >You've heard. -- Jerry Brown A cat may look at a king (but probably won't bother)
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| From | Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-02 17:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0282b422-a34d-443a-ba9b-a227c4acf02d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439256 |
On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 12:26:16 AM UTC-5, michael wrote: > I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > > Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > > Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > election cycle? "Polity and Custom of the Camiroi" by R. A. Lafferty.
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| From | Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-03 03:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20160502b@crcomp.net> |
| In reply to | #439473 |
Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 12:26:16 AM UTC-5, michael wrote:
>> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been
>> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet,
>> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites.
>>
>> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked
>> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit.
>> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it.
>>
>> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made
>> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star
>> Planet by H. Beam Piper.
>>
>> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing
>> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off
>> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it
>> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to
>> how our society would be different if this was implemented here.
>>
>> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF
>> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this
>> election cycle?
>
> "Polity and Custom of the Camiroi" by R. A. Lafferty.
"Galaxy" June 1967. Thank you. This story goes further than Dorothy in
regards to tongue-in-cheek. :0)
with the tongue so far in the cheek that it comes out the
vulgar body aperture
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
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| From | ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-03 04:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <doqml2F1m09U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #439478 |
In article <20160502b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: > >Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 12:26:16 AM UTC-5, michael wrote: >>> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been >>> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, >>> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. >>> >>> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked >>> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. >>> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. >>> >>> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made >>> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star >>> Planet by H. Beam Piper. >>> >>> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing >>> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off >>> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it >>> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to >>> how our society would be different if this was implemented here. >>> >>> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF >>> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this >>> election cycle? >> >> "Polity and Custom of the Camiroi" by R. A. Lafferty. > >"Galaxy" June 1967. Thank you. This story goes further than Dorothy in >regards to tongue-in-cheek. :0) > > with the tongue so far in the cheek that it comes out the > vulgar body aperture > I am sure there are many other baroque examples of ways to govern in Vance, but I've always been fond of "Dodkin's Job". -- ------ columbiaclosings.com What's not in Columbia anymore..
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| From | Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 22:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20160506a@crcomp.net> |
| In reply to | #439479 |
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> In article <20160502b@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>Butch Malahide <fred.galvin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 12:26:16 AM UTC-5, michael wrote:
>>>> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been
>>>> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet,
>>>> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites.
>>>>
>>>> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked
>>>> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit.
>>>> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it.
>>>>
>>>> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made
>>>> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star
>>>> Planet by H. Beam Piper.
>>>>
>>>> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing
>>>> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off
>>>> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it
>>>> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to
>>>> how our society would be different if this was implemented here.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF
>>>> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this
>>>> election cycle?
>>>
>>> "Polity and Custom of the Camiroi" by R. A. Lafferty.
>>
>>"Galaxy" June 1967. Thank you. This story goes further than Dorothy in
>>regards to tongue-in-cheek. :0)
>>
>> with the tongue so far in the cheek that it comes out the
>> vulgar body aperture
>>
>
> I am sure there are many other baroque examples of ways to govern
> in Vance, but I've always been fond of "Dodkin's Job".
"Astounding" October 1959. Thank you. :0)
When action grows unprofitable, gather information; when
information grows unprofitable, sleep. - Ursula K LeGuin
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
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| From | "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-03 11:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6648df74-939f-478b-bd1f-e3cd07261664@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439256 |
On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 10:26:16 PM UTC-7, michael wrote: > I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. I wish us bigjobs were as politically savvy as the Nac Mac Feegle. "Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! Nae master! We willnae be fooled again!" Oh, wait- Hillary wants to be our kelda... > Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > how our society would be different if this was implemented here. And some people wonder why Libs are so insistent on "gun control"... > Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > election cycle? Not really, but a semi-YASID... I recall a story listing the social/political systems of ETs, including a small number of "weird things" nobody could figure out how they worked. I wondered if that was bias on the part of the investigators- they could see quite well how the systems worked but found them so offensive they refused to admit they understood them. Mark L. Fergerson
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| From | Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 17:12 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ngdrtf$m2f$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #439256 |
On 5/1/2016 12:26 AM, michael wrote:
> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been
> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet,
> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites.
>
> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked
> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit.
> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it.
>
> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made
> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star
> Planet by H. Beam Piper.
>
> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing
> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off
> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it
> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to
> how our society would be different if this was implemented here.
>
> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF
> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this
> election cycle?
If I remember correctly (and that is highly debatable nowadays), the new USA President in _The War After Armageddon_ by Ralph Peters
offers a blanket pardon to anyone who kills a liberal after LA and Las Vegas are nuked. Most of the federal officials and judges are
killed.
http://www.amazon.com/War-After-Armageddon-Ralph-Peters/dp/0765323559/
Lynn
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| From | Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 17:51 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ngdu7q$t8q$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #439583 |
On 5/4/2016 5:12 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > On 5/1/2016 12:26 AM, michael wrote: >> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been >> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, >> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. >> >> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked >> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. >> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. >> >> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made >> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star >> Planet by H. Beam Piper. >> >> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing >> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off >> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it >> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to >> how our society would be different if this was implemented here. >> >> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF >> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this >> election cycle? > > If I remember correctly (and that is highly debatable nowadays), the new USA President in _The War After Armageddon_ by Ralph Peters > offers a blanket pardon to anyone who kills a liberal after LA and Las Vegas are nuked. Most of the federal officials and judges are > killed. > http://www.amazon.com/War-After-Armageddon-Ralph-Peters/dp/0765323559/ > > Lynn I forgot about the muslim purges in Europe and the USA after the nukes in LA, LV, and most of the European cities in the book. Lynn
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| From | hamish.laws@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-04 16:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2f7dd650-1d86-4d62-9f37-d0358aaead1b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439586 |
On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Lynn McGuire wrote: > On 5/4/2016 5:12 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > On 5/1/2016 12:26 AM, michael wrote: > >> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > >> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > >> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > >> > >> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > >> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > >> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > >> > >> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > >> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > >> Planet by H. Beam Piper. > >> > >> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > >> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > >> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > >> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > >> how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > >> > >> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > >> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > >> election cycle? > > > > If I remember correctly (and that is highly debatable nowadays), the new USA President in _The War After Armageddon_ by Ralph Peters > > offers a blanket pardon to anyone who kills a liberal after LA and Las Vegas are nuked. Most of the federal officials and judges are > > killed. > > http://www.amazon.com/War-After-Armageddon-Ralph-Peters/dp/0765323559/ > > > > Lynn > > I forgot about the muslim purges in Europe and the USA after the nukes in LA, LV, and most of the European cities in the book. > which just goes to show that Republican vengeance porn is not an entirely new category.
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| From | "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-06 16:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8cc3f123-c58c-49c4-a2dc-23ca18a4f25d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439589 |
On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 4:56:36 PM UTC-7, hamis...@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > On 5/4/2016 5:12 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > > On 5/1/2016 12:26 AM, michael wrote: > > >> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > > >> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > > >> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > >> > > >> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > > >> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > > >> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > > >> > > >> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > > >> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > > >> Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > >> > > >> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > > >> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > > >> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > > >> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > > >> how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > > >> > > >> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > > >> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > > >> election cycle? > > > > > > If I remember correctly (and that is highly debatable nowadays), the new > > > USA President in _The War After Armageddon_ by Ralph Peters > > > offers a blanket pardon to anyone who kills a liberal after LA and Las > > > Vegas are nuked. Most of the federal officials and judges are > > > killed. > > > http://www.amazon.com/War-After-Armageddon-Ralph-Peters/dp/0765323559/ > > > > > > Lynn > > > > I forgot about the muslim purges in Europe and the USA after the nukes in > > LA, LV, and most of the European cities in the book. > > > > which just goes to show that Republican vengeance porn is not an entirely new > category. Yeah, Libs don't bother with revenge porn, they just do things like riot at Chump rallies and stage things like Occupy. And then get away with it, generally. Mark L. Fergerson
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 07:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <685be51e-4534-48d9-9af7-a814b58a411a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439697 |
On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 7:45:08 PM UTC-4, nu...@bid.nes wrote: > On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 4:56:36 PM UTC-7, hamis...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > > On 5/4/2016 5:12 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > > > On 5/1/2016 12:26 AM, michael wrote: > > > >> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > > > >> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > > > >> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > > >> > > > >> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > > > >> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > > > >> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > > > >> > > > >> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > > > >> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > > > >> Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > > >> > > > >> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > > > >> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > > > >> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > > > >> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > > > >> how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > > > >> > > > >> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > > > >> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > > > >> election cycle? > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly (and that is highly debatable nowadays), the new > > > > USA President in _The War After Armageddon_ by Ralph Peters > > > > offers a blanket pardon to anyone who kills a liberal after LA and Las > > > > Vegas are nuked. Most of the federal officials and judges are > > > > killed. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/War-After-Armageddon-Ralph-Peters/dp/0765323559/ > > > > > > > > Lynn > > > > > > I forgot about the muslim purges in Europe and the USA after the nukes in > > > LA, LV, and most of the European cities in the book. > > > > > > > which just goes to show that Republican vengeance porn is not an entirely new > > category. > > Yeah, Libs don't bother with revenge porn, they just do things like riot at Chump rallies and stage things like Occupy. And then get away with it, generally. They do write things like Philip Roth's Sidewise-award winning "The Plot Against America." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plot_Against_America Roth did also write "The Human Stain." I won't link to Wikipedia, since he had a famous beef with their entry on the book. See: http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/an-open-letter-to-wikipedia Kevin R
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| From | patmpowers@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-07 14:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20fd3705-8116-457b-8240-cf987b77aab7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #439714 |
On Saturday, May 7, 2016 at 10:09:42 AM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote: > On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 7:45:08 PM UTC-4, nu...@bid.nes wrote: > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 4:56:36 PM UTC-7, hamis...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 8:51:58 AM UTC+10, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > > > On 5/4/2016 5:12 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > > > > > On 5/1/2016 12:26 AM, michael wrote: > > > > >> I've spent a few hours this evening catching up on what's been > > > > >> happening in a few online forums that I frequent, including usenet, > > > > >> facebook, and a couple of interest-specific websites. > > > > >> > > > > >> Much to my dismay, just about every one of the places I've looked > > > > >> at this evening has been all but overrun with political bullshit. > > > > >> Facebook in particular is completely choked with it. > > > > >> > > > > >> Being clubbed in the face with everyone's political opinions made > > > > >> me nostalgic for one of my favorite bits of vintage SF - Lone Star > > > > >> Planet by H. Beam Piper. > > > > >> > > > > >> The story is set on the planet of New Texas, where any practicing > > > > >> politician can be assassinated at will, and the killer can get off > > > > >> scott free. All he has to do is prove that the politician "had it > > > > >> coming." This led me to an hour or so of wistful musing as to > > > > >> how our society would be different if this was implemented here. > > > > >> > > > > >> Does anyone else have a similar example of a political system from SF > > > > >> that might prove entertaining while we endure the rest of this > > > > >> election cycle? > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly (and that is highly debatable nowadays), the new > > > > > USA President in _The War After Armageddon_ by Ralph Peters > > > > > offers a blanket pardon to anyone who kills a liberal after LA and Las > > > > > Vegas are nuked. Most of the federal officials and judges are > > > > > killed. > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/War-After-Armageddon-Ralph-Peters/dp/0765323559/ > > > > > > > > > > Lynn > > > > > > > > I forgot about the muslim purges in Europe and the USA after the nukes in > > > > LA, LV, and most of the European cities in the book. > > > > > > > > > > which just goes to show that Republican vengeance porn is not an entirely new > > > category. > > > > Yeah, Libs don't bother with revenge porn, they just do things like riot at Chump rallies and stage things like Occupy. And then get away with it, generally. > > They do write things like Philip Roth's Sidewise-award winning "The Plot > Against America." > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plot_Against_America > Pretty good book until 2/3 of the way through. He seems to have run out of time. He gave up writing and just dumped the back story. Too bad. But it doesn't really show an alternative system.
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