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Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF

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  Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 02:00 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Catherine Jefferson <spamtrap@spambouncer.org> - 2015-11-09 18:59 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:24 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-09 21:23 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 05:30 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-09 23:17 -0700
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 09:35 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 16:35 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 11:52 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 12:39 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 11:54 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-10 01:38 -0700
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:16 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:38 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 03:52 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 05:33 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-10 17:34 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-09 20:31 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 09:38 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 16:37 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-10 12:44 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-10 12:28 -0700
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-10 14:39 -0500
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-11-10 12:28 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 23:35 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 00:09 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:46 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 06:00 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Dan Tilque <dtilque@frontier.com> - 2015-11-17 04:22 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:31 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Dan Tilque <dtilque@frontier.com> - 2015-11-17 13:03 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-18 13:11 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-18 15:35 -0700
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-19 15:00 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 15:06 -0800
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-19 21:46 -0600
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-10 11:41 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 23:32 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-10 10:43 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-11 07:49 -0600
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 06:55 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 15:59 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 13:16 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 17:44 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-13 03:52 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-13 13:21 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 15:31 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-11 13:33 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-09 21:27 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-09 21:30 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-09 22:51 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-10 01:35 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-10 15:57 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-10 08:19 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-10 12:38 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:50 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 03:07 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> - 2015-11-10 08:41 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 14:26 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-10 06:37 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-10 17:40 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-11-10 17:45 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF PeterM <petermeilinger@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 18:00 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-13 15:58 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 06:54 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 10:37 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:23 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 11:15 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-10 16:44 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 19:59 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-10 14:43 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-10 22:08 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 06:16 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:25 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-12 21:26 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-13 15:59 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-11-10 23:20 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-10 18:11 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-10 21:59 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-11 07:52 -0600
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 05:53 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-11-11 15:41 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 08:15 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-11 16:49 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 19:34 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 09:33 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-12 09:51 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 23:46 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:32 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> - 2015-11-27 21:58 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-28 09:31 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 10:52 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 19:38 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 11:52 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 17:47 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 15:15 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 11:14 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-12 16:55 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-12 09:18 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-12 09:40 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-12 17:49 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-12 12:37 -0700
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Erik Trulsson <erikt@Update.UU.SE> - 2015-11-16 13:40 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 11:46 -0700
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-12 17:32 -0800
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-12 17:54 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 13:25 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 07:24 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-12 09:02 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-12 17:51 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-12 17:46 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 05:01 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-11 17:36 -0600
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-10 08:22 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 19:59 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-13 13:44 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 10:25 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-14 06:25 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2015-11-21 07:30 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-11-22 12:53 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-11-10 16:36 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF banjo@dontspam.silent.com - 2015-11-10 17:33 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-12 14:44 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Tim McCaffrey <timcaffrey@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 10:25 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-10 17:49 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-11 01:01 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 19:02 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "A.G.McDowell" <andrew-mcdowell@o2.co.uk> - 2015-11-10 21:15 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-10 21:36 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-10 21:40 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-10 16:33 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-11-10 17:51 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-12 13:43 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-13 16:03 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-16 14:57 +0000
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-16 09:25 -0800
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-16 12:51 -0500
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-16 14:51 -0500
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-16 21:09 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-17 08:41 -0500
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:19 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-16 15:57 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 20:59 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-17 08:47 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:43 -0800
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2015-11-18 11:38 +0000
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-18 06:55 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 12:18 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-20 17:57 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 11:59 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-16 22:15 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:29 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-16 15:36 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:42 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-16 21:13 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-16 13:54 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-11-16 23:28 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-16 22:00 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-17 21:53 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-20 18:50 +0000
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 12:05 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-20 23:07 +0000
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 21:34 -0800
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-21 06:18 +0000
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:35 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 00:34 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 19:41 -0800
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 03:58 +0000
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-21 20:55 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:28 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-23 16:35 -0800
                                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-24 03:50 +0000
                                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-24 04:16 -0800
                                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-24 12:55 +0000
                                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 06:35 -0800
                                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-24 06:57 -0800
                                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-24 11:44 -0500
                                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-24 11:43 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2015-11-22 13:51 +1300
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 01:36 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-21 19:27 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-16 23:27 -0700
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 19:12 -0500
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-17 01:55 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-16 21:18 -0500
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 22:45 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-17 05:58 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-16 23:23 -0700
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 05:57 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "A.G.McDowell" <andrew-mcdowell@o2.co.uk> - 2015-11-10 21:35 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-10 23:58 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 23:58 -0500
        Rolling Roads Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-11 01:24 -0700
          Re: Rolling Roads David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-11 01:34 -0700
            Re: Rolling Roads Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 07:09 -0800
              Re: Rolling Roads "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 18:40 -0500
                Re: Rolling Roads David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-11 18:28 -0700
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-11 03:40 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-11 14:20 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-11 09:31 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-11 15:56 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 11:17 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-11 07:11 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-11-10 17:42 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF synthius2002@yahoo.com - 2015-11-10 20:23 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-11 06:46 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 03:13 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-11 09:23 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 15:40 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:40 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "A.G.McDowell" <andrew-mcdowell@o2.co.uk> - 2015-11-12 21:11 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 23:55 -0500
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-12 22:02 -0700
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-13 14:59 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-13 08:17 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-13 17:01 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF John Savard <quadibloc@barney-mail.invalid> - 2015-11-13 16:27 +0000
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-13 14:14 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-11-13 21:45 -0700
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-14 06:08 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-11-16 18:18 -0700
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-17 01:56 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-18 19:55 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-18 20:55 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Michael Ikeda <mmikeda@erols.com> - 2015-11-18 23:48 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-18 20:23 -0500
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2015-11-19 01:35 +0000
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 03:28 +0000
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2015-11-19 14:45 +0000
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 10:01 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 07:19 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-19 15:54 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 16:56 +0000
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 10:55 -0500
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-19 18:34 +0000
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 10:50 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-19 19:21 +0000
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-20 05:11 -0800
                                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-20 15:00 +0000
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 14:08 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 03:21 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-22 15:34 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 16:25 +0000
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-22 17:32 +0000
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 18:03 +0000
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-22 13:21 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 21:33 +0000
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-22 19:25 -0500
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-23 01:15 +0000
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-23 14:31 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-24 00:05 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-11-24 02:24 -0600
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-24 04:39 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-24 07:51 -0500
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-22 10:41 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-22 21:16 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-19 15:03 -0500
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 15:22 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-19 15:32 -0500
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 20:56 +0000
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 16:19 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:14 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 16:22 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:49 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-19 14:28 -0700
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 16:30 -0500
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-19 14:31 -0700
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 21:37 +0000
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 16:50 -0500
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:53 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 21:56 +0000
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 18:17 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-19 18:43 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 22:24 -0600
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 22:31 -0600
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-19 14:38 -0700
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:59 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:51 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 21:46 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-11-19 03:55 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 05:36 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 06:53 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 02:37 -0700
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-20 11:36 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-20 03:08 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-19 05:05 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-11-19 08:16 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) - 2015-11-11 19:09 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2015-11-14 10:42 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 21:59 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> - 2015-11-27 22:30 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> - 2015-11-27 22:33 -0800

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#426074

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 8:49:04 AM UTC-5, David DeLaney wrote:

> 
> And I am _quite_ sure that there's gotta be at least one Cordwainer Smith ind
> there, so let's try ... hmm ... choosing from _The Game of Rat and Dragon_
> (10/55), _Alpha Ralpha Boulevard_ (7/61) or _A Planet Named Shayol_ (10/61),
> and _The Queen of the Afternoon_ (4/78)?
> 

"A Planet Named Shayol" is a sequel, and as a standalone doesn't really have
enough context (as well as being very disturbing).

pt

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#426110

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:55:51 -0800 (PST),
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:c68ad872-412a-41a6-9d6a-a336369a621e@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 8:49:04 AM UTC-5,
> David DeLaney wrote:

>> And I am _quite_ sure that there's gotta be at least one
>> Cordwainer Smith ind there, so let's try ... hmm ...
>> choosing from _The Game of Rat and Dragon_ (10/55),
>> _Alpha Ralpha Boulevard_ (7/61) or _A Planet Named
>> Shayol_ (10/61), and _The Queen of the Afternoon_
>> (4/78)?

> "A Planet Named Shayol" is a sequel, and as a standalone
> doesn't really have enough context 

Eh?  To what do you consider it a sequel?  It was, I think,
the second Cordwainer Smith story that I encountered (after
_The Game of Rat and Dragon_), and it was by no means
lacking in context.

> (as well as being very disturbing).

It’s one of the best things he wrote, and it’s ultimately
optimistic:

   'It's unfair,' cried the half-man. 'They should be 
   punished as we were!'
   
   The Lady Johanna Gnade looked down at him. 
   'Punishment is ended.  We will give you anything 
   you wish, but not the pain of another.'

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#426112

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 3:59:16 PM UTC-5, Brian M. Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:55:51 -0800 (PST),
> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote
> in<news:c68ad872-412a-41a6-9d6a-a336369a621e@googlegroups.com>
> in rec.arts.sf.written:
> 
> > On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 8:49:04 AM UTC-5,
> > David DeLaney wrote:
> 
> >> And I am _quite_ sure that there's gotta be at least one
> >> Cordwainer Smith ind there, so let's try ... hmm ...
> >> choosing from _The Game of Rat and Dragon_ (10/55),
> >> _Alpha Ralpha Boulevard_ (7/61) or _A Planet Named
> >> Shayol_ (10/61), and _The Queen of the Afternoon_
> >> (4/78)?
> 
> > "A Planet Named Shayol" is a sequel, and as a standalone
> > doesn't really have enough context 
> 
> Eh?  To what do you consider it a sequel?  It was, I think,
> the second Cordwainer Smith story that I encountered (after
> _The Game of Rat and Dragon_), and it was by no means
> lacking in context.

I was thinking of "The Crime and the Glory of Commander Suzdal"
Suzdal is sentenced to Shayol.

> > (as well as being very disturbing).
> 
> It's one of the best things he wrote, and it's ultimately
> optimistic:
> 
>    'It's unfair,' cried the half-man. 'They should be 
>    punished as we were!'
>    
>    The Lady Johanna Gnade looked down at him. 
>    'Punishment is ended.  We will give you anything 
>    you wish, but not the pain of another.'

True, but the level of body-horror is beyond anything else I
recall him writing. There are better choices for a person's 
first hit of C. Smith, in my opinion.

pt

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#426118

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 13:16:35 -0800 (PST),
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote
in<news:5e153ca0-403b-43a7-a86a-0da9935a30b8@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 3:59:16 PM UTC-5,
> Brian M. Scott wrote:

>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:55:51 -0800 (PST),
>> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote
>> in<news:c68ad872-412a-41a6-9d6a-a336369a621e@googlegroups.com>
>> in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

>>> "A Planet Named Shayol" is a sequel, and as a
>>> standalone doesn't really have enough context 

>> Eh?  To what do you consider it a sequel?  It was, I
>> think, the second Cordwainer Smith story that I
>> encountered (after _The Game of Rat and Dragon_), and
>> it was by no means lacking in context.

> I was thinking of "The Crime and the Glory of Commander
> Suzdal" Suzdal is sentenced to Shayol.

I wondered if that was what you had in mind.  I don’t think
that it adds any context to ‘A Planet Named Shayol’; rather
the reverse, if anything.  And it was published three years
later than APNS.

>>> (as well as being very disturbing).

>> It's one of the best things he wrote, and it's
>> ultimately optimistic:

>>    'It's unfair,' cried the half-man. 'They should be 
>>    punished as we were!'
>>    
>>    The Lady Johanna Gnade looked down at him. 
>>    'Punishment is ended.  We will give you anything 
>>    you wish, but not the pain of another.'

> True, but the level of body-horror is beyond anything
> else I recall him writing. There are better choices for
> a person's first hit of C. Smith, in my opinion.

It was only my second, and it was the one that made me keep
my eyes open for more.  And this is what James Patrick
Kelly had to say about it:

   I remember exactly when I read him for the first time. 
   I was probably 12 or 13. I went to visit my grandmother 
   with my brother, and while I was there I got sick. It 
   was the summertime, and Grandma took Steve out to the 
   swimming pool and I was left home. She didn't have 
   television or maybe she got one station, but she said, 
   "Here are your uncle's science fiction books, you go 
   ahead and see if you want to read some of this." Okay.

   I picked up.. it would have been a '63 or '64 Judith 
   Merrill Best of the Year collection. I don't remember 
   any other stories in there. I'm sure there are some 
   wonderful stories, but the story I do remember is 
   "A Planet Named Shayol." And I'm sitting there 
   with a toothache and a headache and, and feeling 
   pretty miserable, waiting for the aspirin to kick in, 
   and I start reading this story. And this is where the 
   sense of wonder first bloomed in me. I can still see 
   Go-Captain Alvarez and Mercer and Dowager Lady 
   Da.

   My 13-year-old imagination became ecstatic with the 
   idea that there are strangenesses, beautiful, that can 
   be expressed in words, and that you can't get anywhere 
   else but in this kind of thing.

<http://www.cordwainer-smith.com/milphil.htm>

My other top choice would be ‘The Lady Who Sailed the
Soul’, but it seems to me a little less easily accessible.

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#426312

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7, Brian M. Scott wrote:

> It's one of the best things he wrote, and it's ultimately
> optimistic:
> 
>    'It's unfair,' cried the half-man. 'They should be 
>    punished as we were!'
>    
>    The Lady Johanna Gnade looked down at him. 
>    'Punishment is ended.  We will give you anything 
>    you wish, but not the pain of another.'

I would have to find the story in order to fully comment.

One could indeed say it's optimistic in comparison to the prevailing vision of 
the eschaton, where most everyone is thrown into eternal torment for the 
smallest of faults, except for those credulous enough to believe what the 
priesthood of the Right Religion told them.

But my initial gut reaction to a passage like this is that it's still the same 
old story. The rich and powerful consider the sufferings and the quarrels of 
the poor and downtrodden irrelevant.

Still, there is a proverb: "Living well is the best revenge".

I suspect this is about the point where the story _ends_. So we may not see... 
what abilities the rulers of this time have to back up their offer: "We will 
give you anything you wish".

Because if 'anything you wish' consists of nothing more than material goods, 
that is a truly hollow offer... at least in such a far future, where the only 
value of material goods is the use one can derive from them. In the present, of 
course, material goods are much more valuable - because other people lack for 
them.

The passage speaks of a "half-man". So, presumably, the first thing he would 
ask for is to cease to be but half a man; to be healed. (Perhaps not; what has 
been done to him may have made that status somehow natural to him in some 
sense, but that makes the issue more complicated.)

Ah, I've found the story, and it does seem that the Instrumentality at the end 
made an honest effort to cure these released prisoners. And the guilty... they 
may not have been punished, but, arguably, they were annihilated. But for most 
of them, a drugged happiness was the best they could offer - but due to the 
circumstances of the story, that could hardly be faulted, and so the issue I 
would raise does not really come up.

In general, what people want is not merely happiness, but *meaningful* 
happiness. So when these former prisoners are finally weaned from their caps, 
what awaits them? Will they become full participants in the future society, or 
always inferiors and curiosities? That is the sort of thing I wonder.

John Savard

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#426354

On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 03:52:47 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote
in<news:6b5eee47-5b14-4c34-b923-bfebf510afa3@googlegroups.com>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-7,
> Brian M. Scott wrote:

>> It's one of the best things he wrote, and it's ultimately
>> optimistic:

>>    'It's unfair,' cried the half-man. 'They should be 
>>    punished as we were!'

>>    The Lady Johanna Gnade looked down at him. 
>>    'Punishment is ended.  We will give you anything 
>>    you wish, but not the pain of another.'

> I would have to find the story in order to fully comment.

And until then you should STFU, since you don’t know what
you’re talking about.

[...]

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#426079

In article <G46dnf-J1bzR2t7LnZ2dnUU7-RmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
David DeLaney  <dbd@vic.com> wrote:
>On 2015-11-10, David Johnston <David@block.net> wrote:
>> On 11/9/2015 7:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young volunteers
>>> largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review short works of
>>> classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by) suggestions.
>>>
>>> The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>>>
>>> The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already picked),
>>> then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s and the 1970s.
>>> So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.
>>
>> Nightfall (1941)
>> Desertion (1944)
>> All You Zombies (1959)
>> The Sentinel (1951)
>> Flowers for Algernon (1958)
>> Love is an Imaginary Number (1966)
>
>And I am _quite_ sure that there's gotta be at least one Cordwainer Smith ind
>there, so let's try ... hmm ... choosing from _The Game of Rat and Dragon_
>(10/55), _Alpha Ralpha Boulevard_ (7/61) or _A Planet Named Shayol_ (10/61),
>and _The Queen of the Afternoon_ (4/78)?
>
In that case, I'd suggest "The Game of Rat and Dragon."  Most of
Smith is way, way too grim to start somebody out on.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#426096

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:31:47 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <G46dnf-J1bzR2t7LnZ2dnUU7-RmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>David DeLaney  <dbd@vic.com> wrote:
>>
>>And I am _quite_ sure that there's gotta be at least one Cordwainer Smith ind
>>there, so let's try ... hmm ... choosing from _The Game of Rat and Dragon_
>>(10/55), _Alpha Ralpha Boulevard_ (7/61) or _A Planet Named Shayol_ (10/61),
>>and _The Queen of the Afternoon_ (4/78)?
>>
>In that case, I'd suggest "The Game of Rat and Dragon."  Most of
>Smith is way, way too grim to start somebody out on.

I'll second that.



-- 
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#425926

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 7:00:14 PM UTC-7, James Nicoll wrote:

> So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.

Many excellent suggestions have already been made. Two titles that came to my mind, though, are missing:

A Martian Odyssey, Stanley G. Weinbaum, oops, 1934, so that era's been covered already;
First Contact, Murray Leinster, 1945

John Savard

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#425927

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 10:27:08 PM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 7:00:14 PM UTC-7, James Nicoll wrote:
> 
> > So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.
> 
> Many excellent suggestions have already been made. Two titles that came to my mind, though, are missing:
> 
> A Martian Odyssey, Stanley G. Weinbaum, oops, 1934, so that era's been covered already;
> First Contact, Murray Leinster, 1945

Of course, come to think of it, I wonder how far you reached back into the pre-golden age for the two you had picked.

If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend, say, The Crystal Egg or The 
Plattner Story or another of H. G. Wells' science-fiction short stories, if 
these haven't already turned up in the collections they've used in previous 
grades; it's nice to have perspective on the genre.

John Savard

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#425933

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 02:00:12 +0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young volunteers
>largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review short works of
>classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by) suggestions.
>
>The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>
>The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already picked),
>then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s and the 1970s. 
>So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.

     "Allamagoosa" (Eric Frank Russell, 1955) came immediately to
mind.  Why, I do not know.  It is a hilarious story.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#425938

jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

>Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young volunteers
>largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review short works of
>classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by) suggestions.
>
>The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>
>The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already picked),
>then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s and the 1970s. 
>So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.

There have been many votes on best short story prior to whenever the
votes were taken.  I know this niche mainly from the seventies.  A
quick google tossed up the following, which is as good a list as any.
http://nerdclave.com/home/20-best-science-fiction-short-stories-of-the-20th-century/

So the short-story version of Flowers for Algernon (so long as they
haven't been exposed to the movie or full-novel version of Charly).
Wikipedia says 1958, but it feels newer.  Perhaps because the movie
was set in the hippie era.

The Cold Equations (1954) is always good for a geek discussion of
engineering margins, but I still think it's one of the classics.

Pretty much anything from Varley's Nine Worlds short works.  Perhaps
Overdrawn at the Memory Bank or The Phantom of Kansas (both from
1976).  If you don't want to go Nine Worlds, everyone but me seems to
like Persistence of Vision.

Something froim Gibson's short works.  The nerdclave list suggests
Burning Chrome (1982).  I hadn't realized that this was the first use
of the word "cyberspace".

I guess True Names (1981) is too long, right?  This was published
astonishingly early compared to the other cyberspace stories.

The list suggests Heinlein's All You Zombies (1958).  I prefer 
By His Bootstraps (1959).

The commentary below the list mentions Campbell's "The Thing".  I
think I know that story as "Who Goes There" (1938), and recommend it.
But Wikipedia says it's a novella, so probably too long for this list.

I never much liked Nightfall (1941) but everyone else puts it on such
lists.

Nerves (1942) by Del Rey.

Kornbluth:  The Marching Morons (1941) or The Little Black Bag (1950).

Something from Niven's short stories of the sixties and early
seventies.  Perhaps Neutron Star or Eye of an Octopus (both 1966)  Is
Inconstant Moon (1971) too long?

I guess Weyr Search (1967) is too long for your needs.

I assume that The Forever War is a patch-up of separate stories.  It
feels that way, anyhow.  So one of those stories.

(in later googling, here is a much longer list of ideas with author,
size class and date.
http://scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_short_stories.html )

From that list, I forgot Ender's Game, Blood Music, Microcosmic God
and Air Raid. 
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#425956

Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:

> The list suggests Heinlein's All You Zombies (1958).  I prefer
> By His Bootstraps (1959).

Me too.

> I assume that The Forever War is a patch-up of separate stories.  It
> feels that way, anyhow.  So one of those stories.

The Novella "Hero" (1972) foreshadows _The Forever War_. All of the
stories that others mention, including "The Ones Who Walk Away from
Omelas" work for me. Allow me to nominate "The Six Fingers of Time"
(1960) by Lafferty.

The high school indicia that appears near the front of my copy of
_Science Fiction: The Future_ edited by Dick Allen (ISBN-10: 0155786504)
indicates that high schools use(d) it as a textbook. FWIW, here's it's
Table of Contents:

Preface (Science Fiction: The Future) essay by Dick Allen
Introduction (Science Fiction: The Future) essay by Dick Allen
First Perspectives essay by Dick Allen
Advice to a Prophet (1959) poem by Richard Wilbur
No Way Out, No Way Back (1969) essay by Time Magazine
The Human Race Has, Maybe, Thirty-Five Years Left (1967) essay by David
  Lyle
Crab-Apple Crisis (1966) shortstory by George MacBeth (variant of Crab
  Apple Crisis)
Earth's Holocaust (1844) shortstory by Nathaniel Hawthorne
Alternative Futures: The Present as Future essay by Dick Allen
Poem Rocket (1960) poem by Allen Ginsberg
The Country of the Blind (1904) novelette by H. G. Wells
Jachid and Jachidah (1961) shortstory by Isaac Bashevis Singer
They (1941) shortstory by Robert A. Heinlein
The Artist (1962) poem by Kenneth Koch
The Balloon (1966) shortstory by Donald Barthelme
The Future essay by Dick Allen
To the Chicago Abyss (1963) shortstory by Ray Bradbury
Light of Other Days [Slow Glass] (1966) shortstory by Bob Shaw
Harrison Bergeron (1961) shortstory by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
The Green Hills of Earth [Future History] (1947) shortstory by Robert A.
  Heinlein
Tithonus (1968) poem by D. M. Thomas
The Machine Stops (1909) novelette by E. M. Forster
A Rose for Ecclesiastes (1963) novelette by Roger Zelazny
"Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman (1965) shortstory by Harlan
  Ellison
Day Million (1966) shortstory by Frederik Pohl
History Lesson (1949) shortstory by Arthur C. Clarke
from The Time Machine (excerpt) [H. G. Wells' Time Machine Universe]
  (1895) shortfiction by H. G. Wells
Theories essay by Dick Allen
Starting Points (1960) essay by Kingsley Amis
Social Science Fiction (1953) essay by Isaac Asimov
Science Fiction, Morals, and Religion (1953) essay by Gerald Heard
The Boredom of Fantasy (1955) essay by Arthur Koestler
The Imagination of Disaster (1965) essay by Susan Sontag
The Future of Prediction (1970) essay by John P. Sisk
Topics of Writing and Research (Science Fiction: The Future) essay by
  uncredited
Suggestions for Further Reading (Science Fiction: The Future) essay by
  uncredited

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say.-JFK/Emerson

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#425960

On 11/10/15 12:35 AM, Greg Goss wrote:
> The list suggests Heinlein's All You Zombies (1958).  I prefer
> By His Bootstraps (1959).

By His Bootstraps is 1941

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#425985

lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 11/10/15 12:35 AM, Greg Goss wrote:
>> The list suggests Heinlein's All You Zombies (1958).  I prefer
>> By His Bootstraps (1959).
>
>By His Bootstraps is 1941

D'oh.  Reading too fast.  Confused the magazine date (1941) with the
collection (1959).  I was making sure that I went for the magazine
date, but missed.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#426037

On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 3:36:00 AM UTC-5, Greg Goss wrote:

> The list suggests Heinlein's All You Zombies (1958).  I prefer 
> By His Bootstraps (1959).

1941, if time of publication matters.

William Hyde

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#426053

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 01:35:39 -0700, Greg Goss
<gossg@gossg.org> wrote
in<news:dadojdF8b86U1@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> The list suggests Heinlein's All You Zombies (1958).  I
> prefer By His Bootstraps (1959).

It’s pretty good, but ‘All You Zombies --’ is a real tour
de force.  (And BHB is from 1941, not 1959.)

[...]

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#425942

James Nicoll wrote:
> Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young
> volunteers largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review
> short works of classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by)
> suggestions.
>
> The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>
> The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already
> picked), then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s
> and the 1970s. So I guess suggestions should include the year the
> story was first published.

I have always liked "...And Then There Were None", by Eric Frank Russell 
(1951).

-- 
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply) 

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#425950

In article <Q72dnaUfq8RZMNzLnZ2dnUU78RednZ2d@supernews.com>,
Mike Dworetsky <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
>> Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young
>> volunteers largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review
>> short works of classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by)
>> suggestions.
>>
>> The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>>
>> The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already
>> picked), then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s
>> and the 1970s. So I guess suggestions should include the year the
>> story was first published.
>
>I have always liked "...And Then There Were None", by Eric Frank Russell 
>(1951).

One of my favorite Russells, from the 1950s when I was a
youngster, was "Nuisance Value" (Astounding, January 1957).  One
of many stories calculated to push Campbell's buttons: with a
cast of seven Terrans allowing themselves to become POWs and
drive the prison managers nuts.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#425952

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 9:00:14 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young volunteers
> largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review short works of
> classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by) suggestions.
> 
> The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
> 
> The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already picked),
> then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s and the 1970s. 
> So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.

The Ballad of Lost C'Mell (1962, Cordwainer Smith) or other C. Smith short.

Repent, Harlequin! cried the Ticktockman (1965, Ellison)

pt

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