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It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence.

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  It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> - 2026-03-16 00:27 +0000
    Re: It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> - 2026-03-16 17:17 +1300
      Re: It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> - 2026-03-16 07:25 +0000
      Re: It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-17 08:48 +1300
        Re: It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:24 +1300
          Re: It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) - 2026-03-17 00:39 +0000
            Re: It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence. Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> - 2026-03-17 14:36 +1300

#339601 — It's what self interest does to a Prime Minister with low intelligence.

https://waikanaewatch.org/2026/03/16/we-need-the-marsden-point-refinery-now/
An incompetent and selfish decision.

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#339603

On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 00:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

>https://waikanaewatch.org/2026/03/16/we-need-the-marsden-point-refinery-now/
>An incompetent and selfish decision.

Except for a major lie in that article.  The Marsden Pt refinery was
not closed by any Government - it was closed by the owners.  The case
for refining crude oil onshore was never strong, made weaker when
Asian economies could get refined product cheaper to distribution
points around NZ than the refinery could.

There are few sources of the crude oil that the refinery could handle.
There are many more sources of refined product that we get today. When
the refinery was built, all suppliers of petrol/diesel etc in NZ were
required to use Marsden Pt output (importation was not permitted).
There was never any justification for building the refinery other than
creating local jobs at the expense of sourcing cheaper petrol in a
free market.

The reality is that Gull in particular demonstrated that they could
supply the NZ market cheaper then the companies that owned Marsden Pt.
When the refinery was closed, its owners joined the same business
model as Gull (and NPD, originally also Challenge).  Our supply lines
are more diverse for refined versus crude.  The refineries used now
will almost certainly have access to stockpiled crude oil so that the
refinery can survive crude oil supply crunches.

Yes the Labour Governments of 2017-2023 made pointless decisions that
restricted local exploration but the presence or absence of a refinery
in NZ is not relevant.


-- 
Crash McBash

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#339604

On 2026-03-16, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 00:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>https://waikanaewatch.org/2026/03/16/we-need-the-marsden-point-refinery-now/
>>An incompetent and selfish decision.
>
> Except for a major lie in that article.  The Marsden Pt refinery was
> not closed by any Government - it was closed by the owners.  The case
> for refining crude oil onshore was never strong, made weaker when
> Asian economies could get refined product cheaper to distribution
> points around NZ than the refinery could.
>
> There are few sources of the crude oil that the refinery could handle.
> There are many more sources of refined product that we get today. When
> the refinery was built, all suppliers of petrol/diesel etc in NZ were
> required to use Marsden Pt output (importation was not permitted).
> There was never any justification for building the refinery other than
> creating local jobs at the expense of sourcing cheaper petrol in a
> free market.

The refinery was built (1962 - 1964) in the days before Rogernomics
>
> The reality is that Gull in particular demonstrated that they could
> supply the NZ market cheaper then the companies that owned Marsden Pt.
> When the refinery was closed, its owners joined the same business
> model as Gull (and NPD, originally also Challenge).  Our supply lines
> are more diverse for refined versus crude.  The refineries used now
> will almost certainly have access to stockpiled crude oil so that the
> refinery can survive crude oil supply crunches.
>
> Yes the Labour Governments of 2017-2023 made pointless decisions that
> restricted local exploration but the presence or absence of a refinery
> in NZ is not relevant.
>
We need to remember that the worold was a different place when the refinery
was built.

NZ having a refinery does not help a great deal as A) You need to import the
crude and it needs to be the right crude.

Oil is shipped all over the planet, some ot it will need to go on a slight
detour.

Remember the oil shocks of the early 70's. NZ did not run out of oil even
with OPEC in control of the oil.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/589684/average-91-petrol-price-surges-past-3-as-willis-slams-ev-subsidies
"I simply don't accept the idea that giving subsidies to millionaires in
Remuera would help those afflicted by high petrol prices," Willis said.

Bulleye.

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#339605

Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 00:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>https://waikanaewatch.org/2026/03/16/we-need-the-marsden-point-refinery-now/
>>An incompetent and selfish decision.
>
>Except for a major lie in that article.  The Marsden Pt refinery was
>not closed by any Government - it was closed by the owners.  The case
>for refining crude oil onshore was never strong, made weaker when
>Asian economies could get refined product cheaper to distribution
>points around NZ than the refinery could.
>
>There are few sources of the crude oil that the refinery could handle.
>There are many more sources of refined product that we get today. When
>the refinery was built, all suppliers of petrol/diesel etc in NZ were
>required to use Marsden Pt output (importation was not permitted).
>There was never any justification for building the refinery other than
>creating local jobs at the expense of sourcing cheaper petrol in a
>free market.
>
>The reality is that Gull in particular demonstrated that they could
>supply the NZ market cheaper then the companies that owned Marsden Pt.
>When the refinery was closed, its owners joined the same business
>model as Gull (and NPD, originally also Challenge).  Our supply lines
>are more diverse for refined versus crude.  The refineries used now
>will almost certainly have access to stockpiled crude oil so that the
>refinery can survive crude oil supply crunches.
>
>Yes the Labour Governments of 2017-2023 made pointless decisions that
>restricted local exploration but the presence or absence of a refinery
>in NZ is not relevant.

Yes it was closed by the owners  and the government  should have
interleaved and stopped it  or bought it back but Liebor hated fossil
fuels so  didn't  care.  

People who  worked there said  after the closure that by blending
import crude and local  stuff we  could have refined our own fuel  not
always reliant on import crude.

It also  could re-refine aviation fuel that  was contaminated on
arrive as has been done in the past  now we have to  send  it  back to
Ozz at a cost  .

We produced out own bitumen road paving and CO2  for the food industry
now all this has the be imported as well. 

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#339606

On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 08:48:32 +1300, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 00:27:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>https://waikanaewatch.org/2026/03/16/we-need-the-marsden-point-refinery-now/
>>>An incompetent and selfish decision.
>>
>>Except for a major lie in that article.  The Marsden Pt refinery was
>>not closed by any Government - it was closed by the owners.  The case
>>for refining crude oil onshore was never strong, made weaker when
>>Asian economies could get refined product cheaper to distribution
>>points around NZ than the refinery could.
>>
>>There are few sources of the crude oil that the refinery could handle.
>>There are many more sources of refined product that we get today. When
>>the refinery was built, all suppliers of petrol/diesel etc in NZ were
>>required to use Marsden Pt output (importation was not permitted).
>>There was never any justification for building the refinery other than
>>creating local jobs at the expense of sourcing cheaper petrol in a
>>free market.
>>
>>The reality is that Gull in particular demonstrated that they could
>>supply the NZ market cheaper then the companies that owned Marsden Pt.
>>When the refinery was closed, its owners joined the same business
>>model as Gull (and NPD, originally also Challenge).  Our supply lines
>>are more diverse for refined versus crude.  The refineries used now
>>will almost certainly have access to stockpiled crude oil so that the
>>refinery can survive crude oil supply crunches.
>>
>>Yes the Labour Governments of 2017-2023 made pointless decisions that
>>restricted local exploration but the presence or absence of a refinery
>>in NZ is not relevant.
>
>Yes it was closed by the owners  and the government  should have
>interleaved and stopped it  or bought it back but Liebor hated fossil
>fuels so  didn't  care.  
>
>People who  worked there said  after the closure that by blending
>import crude and local  stuff we  could have refined our own fuel  not
>always reliant on import crude.
>
>It also  could re-refine aviation fuel that  was contaminated on
>arrive as has been done in the past  now we have to  send  it  back to
>Ozz at a cost  .
>
>We produced out own bitumen road paving and CO2  for the food industry
>now all this has the be imported as well. 

None of this justifies Government ownership or intervention.  The
fallacy of manufacturing locally when product can be imported cheaper
than we can import and process is now long gone.

We have no supply crisis yet.  We can stockpile refined product
inexactly the same way as we could have stockpiled crude oil.  Local
crude oil is not at all suitable for refining to produce petrol and
diesel.

NZ car assembly industry fell apart once import protections on
built-up vehicles was done away with and we now have cheaper cars on
the road of better quality because of it.


-- 
Crash McBash

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#339609

On Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>People who  worked there said  after the closure that by blending
>>import crude and local  stuff we  could have refined our own fuel  not
>>always reliant on import crude.
>>
>>It also  could re-refine aviation fuel that  was contaminated on
>>arrive as has been done in the past  now we have to  send  it  back to
>>Ozz at a cost  .
>>
>>We produced out own bitumen road paving and CO2  for the food industry
>>now all this has the be imported as well. 
>
>None of this justifies Government ownership or intervention. 

Aw, just to say that Crash misses the huge point of national industry
and self-sufficiency.  We should be able to keep our infrastructure
going even if all overseas trade vanishes.  Who wants to lose our
electricity or fuel, when we could keep them going?  First we should
establish and maintain our self-sufficiency, then add imports &
exports to that as a luxury, not a necessity, as much as possible.  

Mutley is totally right to say government should have intervened and
even nationalised the refinery when it closed -- it was a strategic
industry.  They should rebuild it even now to refine our own drilled
petroleum.

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#339610

On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 00:39:33 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
>>On Tue, 17 Mar 2026, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>People who  worked there said  after the closure that by blending
>>>import crude and local  stuff we  could have refined our own fuel  not
>>>always reliant on import crude.
>>>
>>>It also  could re-refine aviation fuel that  was contaminated on
>>>arrive as has been done in the past  now we have to  send  it  back to
>>>Ozz at a cost  .
>>>
>>>We produced out own bitumen road paving and CO2  for the food industry
>>>now all this has the be imported as well. 
>>
>>None of this justifies Government ownership or intervention. 
>
>Aw, just to say that Crash misses the huge point of national industry
>and self-sufficiency.  We should be able to keep our infrastructure
>going even if all overseas trade vanishes.

That was a policy largely followed by our Government from the start.

Up until the 1980's importation of goods and services was strictly
controlled, to the point that some manufactured goods had to be
imported as parts and assembled here.  Do you not recall the days when
Ozzie beer was not allowed, there was just one brand of home
appliances, quality Japanese audio systems were not allowed and
refined petrol/diesel was also not allowed.  We had a closed system
then, and what we could get was poor quality because of monopoly
supply.

>  Who wants to lose our
>electricity or fuel, when we could keep them going?

Scare mongering in the extreme.  The petrol retailers have ample and
diverse sources of supply.  Are you suggesting they will simply allow
their port storage facilities to run dry, followed by their retail
outlets.  That is financial suicide and is unlikely ever to happen.

>  First we should
>establish and maintain our self-sufficiency, then add imports &
>exports to that as a luxury, not a necessity, as much as possible.  
>
Great theory, but in practice this means locally-made products of poor
quality and value.

>Mutley is totally right to say government should have intervened and
>even nationalised the refinery when it closed -- it was a strategic
>industry.  They should rebuild it even now to refine our own drilled
>petroleum.

That possibility evaporated with the defeat of RD Muldoon in the 1984
election, and your assertion indicates you do not have lived
experience of living in this country before 1984.


-- 
Crash McBash

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