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Groups > muc.lists.netbsd.tech.toolchain > #3610

Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug

From "Greg A. Woods" <woods@planix.ca>
Newsgroups muc.lists.netbsd.tech.toolchain
Subject Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug
Date 2026-05-28 14:40 -0700
Organization Planix, Inc.
Message-ID <m1wSiTH-00Mo5fC@more.local> (permalink)
References <> <ahORiW66-m7o7YK4@netbsd.org>

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This probably/obviously isn't the best place for this discussion, but...

At Mon, 25 May 2026 00:02:17 +0000, David Holland <dholland-tech@netbsd.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug
>
> The places where
> certain bits of undefined and unspecified behavior line up exactly
> with things that mattered in a compiler written forty years ago are no
> longer obvious, and so what's left is a vague general belief that the
> UB in the C standard is meant to be room for optimizers.

The reason for the "belief" that UB is (often) related to optimizers is
squarely resting on the fact that when the optimizer is turned off then
the UB goes away.  So it's not really a belief -- it's a demonstrable
fact!

That and the fact some of the compiler maintainers influencing the
standard have basically said that they explicitly rely on some UB
conditions to allow their optimization tricks to work.

So it's very difficult to separate many of the current cases of UB from
some aspect of optimization.

> You can try pushing back, but you aren't going to get anywhere.

As I said, efforts to eliminate UB from C are actually happening at the
standards committee level, so....

--
					Greg A. Woods <gwoods@acm.org>

Kelowna, BC     +1 250 762-7675           RoboHack <woods@robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>     Avoncote Farms <woods@avoncote.ca>

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Thread

netbsd-11 gcc bug Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org> - 2026-05-23 10:59 +0200
  Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org> - 2026-05-23 12:55 +0200
    Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org> - 2026-05-23 20:45 +0200
  Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Valery Ushakov <uwe@stderr.spb.ru> - 2026-05-23 14:22 +0300
    Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org> - 2026-05-23 13:28 +0200
  Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Roland Illig <roland.illig@gmx.de> - 2026-05-23 20:38 +0200
    Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Manuel Bouyer <bouyer@antioche.eu.org> - 2026-05-23 20:47 +0200
      Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU> - 2026-05-24 02:29 +0700
        Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Mouse <mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> - 2026-05-23 19:11 -0400
          Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Martin Husemann <martin@duskware.de> - 2026-05-24 10:44 +0200
            Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Mouse <mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> - 2026-05-24 08:33 -0400
              Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Jason Thorpe <thorpej@me.com> - 2026-05-24 11:38 -0400
                Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug "Greg A. Woods" <woods@planix.ca> - 2026-05-24 16:53 -0700
              Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug David Holland <dholland-tech@netbsd.org> - 2026-05-25 00:02 +0000
                Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Mouse <mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> - 2026-05-25 08:23 -0400
                C compiler (over-)optimization (was: netbsd-11 gcc bug) Edgar Fuß <ef@math.uni-bonn.de> - 2026-05-29 19:12 +0200
                Re: C compiler (over-)optimization (was: netbsd-11 gcc bug) Mouse <mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> - 2026-05-29 14:21 -0400
                Re: C compiler (over-)optimization (was: netbsd-11 gcc bug) "Greg A. Woods" <woods@planix.ca> - 2026-05-29 14:27 -0700
                Re: C compiler (over-)optimization Anders Magnusson <ragge@tethuvudet.se> - 2026-05-30 12:30 +0200
                Re: C compiler (over-)optimization (was: netbsd-11 gcc bug) Andrew Cagney <andrew.cagney@gmail.com> - 2026-05-31 13:02 -0400
                Re: C compiler (over-)optimization (was: netbsd-11 gcc bug) Jason Thorpe <thorpej@me.com> - 2026-05-31 14:29 -0500
                Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug "Greg A. Woods" <woods@planix.ca> - 2026-05-28 14:40 -0700
                Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Mouse <mouse@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> - 2026-05-28 18:36 -0400
                Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Jason Thorpe <thorpej@me.com> - 2026-05-28 19:04 -0400
                Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug "Greg A. Woods" <woods@planix.ca> - 2026-05-29 14:31 -0700
      Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Jörg Sonnenberger <joerg@bec.de> - 2026-05-26 13:52 +0200
        Re: netbsd-11 gcc bug Jason Thorpe <thorpej@me.com> - 2026-05-26 10:02 -0400

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