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| Started by | Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-06-27 23:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2017-06-28 17:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 6 — 2 participants |
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[PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2017-06-27 23:20 +0200
Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> - 2017-06-27 23:40 +0200
Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2017-06-27 23:50 +0200
Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> - 2017-06-28 00:10 +0200
Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2017-06-28 17:00 +0200
Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> - 2017-06-28 17:10 +0200
| From | Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-27 23:20 +0200 |
| Subject | [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties |
| Message-ID | <tX63U-6ch-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
Describe device tree optional properties:
* aspeed,arm-reet - ARM CPU reset on signal
* aspeed,soc-reset - SOC reset on signal
* aspeed,sys-reset - System reset on signal
Disabling system reset may be required in situations where
one of the other watchdog engines in the system is responsible
for this.
* aspeed,interrupt - Interrupt CPU on signal
* aspeed,external-signal - Generate external signal (WDT1 and WDT2 only)
* aspeed,alt-boot - Boot from alternate block on signal
Signed-off-by: Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
---
v2 - Add 'aspeed,' prefix to all optional properties
- Add arm-reset, soc-reset, interrupt, alt-boot properties
---
.../devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt | 25 ++++++++++++++++++++++
1 file changed, 25 insertions(+)
diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
index c5e74d7..555b8b4 100644
--- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
+++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
@@ -8,9 +8,34 @@ Required properties:
- reg: physical base address of the controller and length of memory mapped
region
+Optional properties:
+ Signal behavior - Whenever a timeout occurs, the watchdog can be programmed
+ to generate 6 types of signals:
+
+ - aspeed,arm-reset: If property is present then reset ARM CPU only.
+
+ - aspeed,soc-reset: If property is present then reset SOC.
+
+ - aspeed,sys-reset: If property is present then reset the entire chip.
+ In cases where one of the other watchdog engines
+ in the system is responsible for system reset it
+ may be required to not specify this property.
+
+ - aspeed,interrupt: If property is present then interrupt CPU.
+
+ - aspeed,external-signal: If property is present then signal is sent to
+ external reset counter (only WDT1 and WDT2).
+ - aspeed,alt-boot: If property is present then boot from alternate block.
+
Example:
wdt1: watchdog@1e785000 {
compatible = "aspeed,ast2400-wdt";
reg = <0x1e785000 0x1c>;
+ aspeed,arm-reset;
+ aspeed,soc-reset;
+ aspeed,sys-reset;
+ aspeed,interrupt;
+ aspeed,external-signal;
+ aspeed,alt-boot;
};
--
1.8.2.2
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| From | Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-27 23:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties |
| Message-ID | <tX6ng-6jD-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #1676186 |
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:17:33PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
> Describe device tree optional properties:
>
> * aspeed,arm-reet - ARM CPU reset on signal
> * aspeed,soc-reset - SOC reset on signal
> * aspeed,sys-reset - System reset on signal
> Disabling system reset may be required in situations where
> one of the other watchdog engines in the system is responsible
> for this.
> * aspeed,interrupt - Interrupt CPU on signal
> * aspeed,external-signal - Generate external signal (WDT1 and WDT2 only)
> * aspeed,alt-boot - Boot from alternate block on signal
>
> Signed-off-by: Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
> ---
> v2 - Add 'aspeed,' prefix to all optional properties
> - Add arm-reset, soc-reset, interrupt, alt-boot properties
> ---
> .../devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt | 25 ++++++++++++++++++++++
> 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> index c5e74d7..555b8b4 100644
> --- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> @@ -8,9 +8,34 @@ Required properties:
> - reg: physical base address of the controller and length of memory mapped
> region
>
> +Optional properties:
> + Signal behavior - Whenever a timeout occurs, the watchdog can be programmed
> + to generate 6 types of signals:
> +
> + - aspeed,arm-reset: If property is present then reset ARM CPU only.
> +
> + - aspeed,soc-reset: If property is present then reset SOC.
> +
> + - aspeed,sys-reset: If property is present then reset the entire chip.
> + In cases where one of the other watchdog engines
> + in the system is responsible for system reset it
> + may be required to not specify this property.
> +
> + - aspeed,interrupt: If property is present then interrupt CPU.
> +
> + - aspeed,external-signal: If property is present then signal is sent to
> + external reset counter (only WDT1 and WDT2).
> + - aspeed,alt-boot: If property is present then boot from alternate block.
> +
> Example:
>
> wdt1: watchdog@1e785000 {
> compatible = "aspeed,ast2400-wdt";
> reg = <0x1e785000 0x1c>;
> + aspeed,arm-reset;
> + aspeed,soc-reset;
> + aspeed,sys-reset;
> + aspeed,interrupt;
> + aspeed,external-signal;
> + aspeed,alt-boot;
Is that a bit mask or a value ? I would have thought that,
for example, a complete system reset would include the SoC reset,
and a SoC reset would include the ARM reset. Generating an
interrupt while at the same time resetting the system (or
part of it) doesn't seem to make much sense either.
Guenter
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| From | Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-27 23:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties |
| Message-ID | <tX6wV-6nD-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #1676196 |
On 6/27/17 4:32 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:17:33PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
>> Describe device tree optional properties:
>>
>> * aspeed,arm-reet - ARM CPU reset on signal
>> * aspeed,soc-reset - SOC reset on signal
>> * aspeed,sys-reset - System reset on signal
>> Disabling system reset may be required in situations where
>> one of the other watchdog engines in the system is responsible
>> for this.
>> * aspeed,interrupt - Interrupt CPU on signal
>> * aspeed,external-signal - Generate external signal (WDT1 and WDT2 only)
>> * aspeed,alt-boot - Boot from alternate block on signal
>>
>> Signed-off-by: Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
>> ---
>> v2 - Add 'aspeed,' prefix to all optional properties
>> - Add arm-reset, soc-reset, interrupt, alt-boot properties
>> ---
>> .../devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt | 25 ++++++++++++++++++++++
>> 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+)
>>
>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
>> index c5e74d7..555b8b4 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
>> @@ -8,9 +8,34 @@ Required properties:
>> - reg: physical base address of the controller and length of memory mapped
>> region
>>
>> +Optional properties:
>> + Signal behavior - Whenever a timeout occurs, the watchdog can be programmed
>> + to generate 6 types of signals:
>> +
>> + - aspeed,arm-reset: If property is present then reset ARM CPU only.
>> +
>> + - aspeed,soc-reset: If property is present then reset SOC.
>> +
>> + - aspeed,sys-reset: If property is present then reset the entire chip.
>> + In cases where one of the other watchdog engines
>> + in the system is responsible for system reset it
>> + may be required to not specify this property.
>> +
>> + - aspeed,interrupt: If property is present then interrupt CPU.
>> +
>> + - aspeed,external-signal: If property is present then signal is sent to
>> + external reset counter (only WDT1 and WDT2).
>> + - aspeed,alt-boot: If property is present then boot from alternate block.
>> +
>> Example:
>>
>> wdt1: watchdog@1e785000 {
>> compatible = "aspeed,ast2400-wdt";
>> reg = <0x1e785000 0x1c>;
>> + aspeed,arm-reset;
>> + aspeed,soc-reset;
>> + aspeed,sys-reset;
>> + aspeed,interrupt;
>> + aspeed,external-signal;
>> + aspeed,alt-boot;
> Is that a bit mask or a value ? I would have thought that,
> for example, a complete system reset would include the SoC reset,
> and a SoC reset would include the ARM reset. Generating an
> interrupt while at the same time resetting the system (or
> part of it) doesn't seem to make much sense either.
No these aren't bitmasks. The example was intended to indicate what
could be used.
In practice only a subset of each of these properties would make any
sense. How
would you suggest the example be formatted to convey that? Multiple examples
I suppose.
Thanks,
Chris
> Guenter
>
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| From | Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-28 00:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties |
| Message-ID | <tX6Qh-6Lo-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #1676199 |
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:42:24PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
>
>
> On 6/27/17 4:32 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> >On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:17:33PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
> >>Describe device tree optional properties:
> >>
> >> * aspeed,arm-reet - ARM CPU reset on signal
> >> * aspeed,soc-reset - SOC reset on signal
> >> * aspeed,sys-reset - System reset on signal
> >> Disabling system reset may be required in situations where
> >> one of the other watchdog engines in the system is responsible
> >> for this.
> >> * aspeed,interrupt - Interrupt CPU on signal
> >> * aspeed,external-signal - Generate external signal (WDT1 and WDT2 only)
> >> * aspeed,alt-boot - Boot from alternate block on signal
> >>
> >>Signed-off-by: Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
> >>---
> >>v2 - Add 'aspeed,' prefix to all optional properties
> >> - Add arm-reset, soc-reset, interrupt, alt-boot properties
> >>---
> >> .../devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt | 25 ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+)
> >>
> >>diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> >>index c5e74d7..555b8b4 100644
> >>--- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> >>+++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> >>@@ -8,9 +8,34 @@ Required properties:
> >> - reg: physical base address of the controller and length of memory mapped
> >> region
> >>+Optional properties:
> >>+ Signal behavior - Whenever a timeout occurs, the watchdog can be programmed
> >>+ to generate 6 types of signals:
> >>+
> >>+ - aspeed,arm-reset: If property is present then reset ARM CPU only.
> >>+
> >>+ - aspeed,soc-reset: If property is present then reset SOC.
> >>+
> >>+ - aspeed,sys-reset: If property is present then reset the entire chip.
> >>+ In cases where one of the other watchdog engines
> >>+ in the system is responsible for system reset it
> >>+ may be required to not specify this property.
> >>+
> >>+ - aspeed,interrupt: If property is present then interrupt CPU.
> >>+
> >>+ - aspeed,external-signal: If property is present then signal is sent to
> >>+ external reset counter (only WDT1 and WDT2).
> >>+ - aspeed,alt-boot: If property is present then boot from alternate block.
> >>+
> >> Example:
> >> wdt1: watchdog@1e785000 {
> >> compatible = "aspeed,ast2400-wdt";
> >> reg = <0x1e785000 0x1c>;
> >>+ aspeed,arm-reset;
> >>+ aspeed,soc-reset;
> >>+ aspeed,sys-reset;
> >>+ aspeed,interrupt;
> >>+ aspeed,external-signal;
> >>+ aspeed,alt-boot;
> >Is that a bit mask or a value ? I would have thought that,
> >for example, a complete system reset would include the SoC reset,
> >and a SoC reset would include the ARM reset. Generating an
> >interrupt while at the same time resetting the system (or
> >part of it) doesn't seem to make much sense either.
>
> No these aren't bitmasks. The example was intended to indicate what could
> be used.
> In practice only a subset of each of these properties would make any sense.
> How
> would you suggest the example be formatted to convey that? Multiple examples
> I suppose.
>
I would just pick one (which is perfectly fine). After all, it is an example.
Reminds me: Is there a default (eg the chip's default configuration) ?
In other words, what is expected to happen if none of the properties
is specified ?
Thanks,
Guenter
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| From | Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-28 17:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties |
| Message-ID | <tXmBJ-86L-43@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #1676207 |
On 6/27/17 5:07 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:42:24PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
>>
>> On 6/27/17 4:32 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:17:33PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
>>>> Describe device tree optional properties:
>>>>
>>>> * aspeed,arm-reet - ARM CPU reset on signal
>>>> * aspeed,soc-reset - SOC reset on signal
>>>> * aspeed,sys-reset - System reset on signal
>>>> Disabling system reset may be required in situations where
>>>> one of the other watchdog engines in the system is responsible
>>>> for this.
>>>> * aspeed,interrupt - Interrupt CPU on signal
>>>> * aspeed,external-signal - Generate external signal (WDT1 and WDT2 only)
>>>> * aspeed,alt-boot - Boot from alternate block on signal
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
>>>> ---
>>>> v2 - Add 'aspeed,' prefix to all optional properties
>>>> - Add arm-reset, soc-reset, interrupt, alt-boot properties
>>>> ---
>>>> .../devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt | 25 ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+)
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
>>>> index c5e74d7..555b8b4 100644
>>>> --- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
>>>> +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
>>>> @@ -8,9 +8,34 @@ Required properties:
>>>> - reg: physical base address of the controller and length of memory mapped
>>>> region
>>>> +Optional properties:
>>>> + Signal behavior - Whenever a timeout occurs, the watchdog can be programmed
>>>> + to generate 6 types of signals:
>>>> +
>>>> + - aspeed,arm-reset: If property is present then reset ARM CPU only.
>>>> +
>>>> + - aspeed,soc-reset: If property is present then reset SOC.
>>>> +
>>>> + - aspeed,sys-reset: If property is present then reset the entire chip.
>>>> + In cases where one of the other watchdog engines
>>>> + in the system is responsible for system reset it
>>>> + may be required to not specify this property.
>>>> +
>>>> + - aspeed,interrupt: If property is present then interrupt CPU.
>>>> +
>>>> + - aspeed,external-signal: If property is present then signal is sent to
>>>> + external reset counter (only WDT1 and WDT2).
>>>> + - aspeed,alt-boot: If property is present then boot from alternate block.
>>>> +
>>>> Example:
>>>> wdt1: watchdog@1e785000 {
>>>> compatible = "aspeed,ast2400-wdt";
>>>> reg = <0x1e785000 0x1c>;
>>>> + aspeed,arm-reset;
>>>> + aspeed,soc-reset;
>>>> + aspeed,sys-reset;
>>>> + aspeed,interrupt;
>>>> + aspeed,external-signal;
>>>> + aspeed,alt-boot;
>>> Is that a bit mask or a value ? I would have thought that,
>>> for example, a complete system reset would include the SoC reset,
>>> and a SoC reset would include the ARM reset. Generating an
>>> interrupt while at the same time resetting the system (or
>>> part of it) doesn't seem to make much sense either.
>> No these aren't bitmasks. The example was intended to indicate what could
>> be used.
>> In practice only a subset of each of these properties would make any sense.
>> How
>> would you suggest the example be formatted to convey that? Multiple examples
>> I suppose.
>>
> I would just pick one (which is perfectly fine). After all, it is an example.
>
> Reminds me: Is there a default (eg the chip's default configuration) ?
> In other words, what is expected to happen if none of the properties
> is specified ?
Default was to enable SOC reset (parameter aspeed,soc-reset) and system
reset (aspeed,sys-reset). Based on your comments in patch v2 2/2 it
would be necessary for backwards compatibility to preserve that default
behavior. So it seems the optional parameters should be inverted for
these: no-soc-reset, no-sys-reset.
Thanks,
Chris
> Thanks,
> Guenter
>
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| From | Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-28 17:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] drivers/watchdog: Add optional ASPEED device tree properties |
| Message-ID | <tXmLn-8q5-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #1676756 |
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 09:55:41AM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
>
>
> On 6/27/17 5:07 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> >On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:42:24PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
> >>
> >>On 6/27/17 4:32 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> >>>On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 04:17:33PM -0500, Christopher Bostic wrote:
> >>>>Describe device tree optional properties:
> >>>>
> >>>> * aspeed,arm-reet - ARM CPU reset on signal
> >>>> * aspeed,soc-reset - SOC reset on signal
> >>>> * aspeed,sys-reset - System reset on signal
> >>>> Disabling system reset may be required in situations where
> >>>> one of the other watchdog engines in the system is responsible
> >>>> for this.
> >>>> * aspeed,interrupt - Interrupt CPU on signal
> >>>> * aspeed,external-signal - Generate external signal (WDT1 and WDT2 only)
> >>>> * aspeed,alt-boot - Boot from alternate block on signal
> >>>>
> >>>>Signed-off-by: Christopher Bostic <cbostic@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
> >>>>---
> >>>>v2 - Add 'aspeed,' prefix to all optional properties
> >>>> - Add arm-reset, soc-reset, interrupt, alt-boot properties
> >>>>---
> >>>> .../devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt | 25 ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>> 1 file changed, 25 insertions(+)
> >>>>
> >>>>diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> >>>>index c5e74d7..555b8b4 100644
> >>>>--- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> >>>>+++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/watchdog/aspeed-wdt.txt
> >>>>@@ -8,9 +8,34 @@ Required properties:
> >>>> - reg: physical base address of the controller and length of memory mapped
> >>>> region
> >>>>+Optional properties:
> >>>>+ Signal behavior - Whenever a timeout occurs, the watchdog can be programmed
> >>>>+ to generate 6 types of signals:
> >>>>+
> >>>>+ - aspeed,arm-reset: If property is present then reset ARM CPU only.
> >>>>+
> >>>>+ - aspeed,soc-reset: If property is present then reset SOC.
> >>>>+
> >>>>+ - aspeed,sys-reset: If property is present then reset the entire chip.
> >>>>+ In cases where one of the other watchdog engines
> >>>>+ in the system is responsible for system reset it
> >>>>+ may be required to not specify this property.
> >>>>+
> >>>>+ - aspeed,interrupt: If property is present then interrupt CPU.
> >>>>+
> >>>>+ - aspeed,external-signal: If property is present then signal is sent to
> >>>>+ external reset counter (only WDT1 and WDT2).
> >>>>+ - aspeed,alt-boot: If property is present then boot from alternate block.
> >>>>+
> >>>> Example:
> >>>> wdt1: watchdog@1e785000 {
> >>>> compatible = "aspeed,ast2400-wdt";
> >>>> reg = <0x1e785000 0x1c>;
> >>>>+ aspeed,arm-reset;
> >>>>+ aspeed,soc-reset;
> >>>>+ aspeed,sys-reset;
> >>>>+ aspeed,interrupt;
> >>>>+ aspeed,external-signal;
> >>>>+ aspeed,alt-boot;
> >>>Is that a bit mask or a value ? I would have thought that,
> >>>for example, a complete system reset would include the SoC reset,
> >>>and a SoC reset would include the ARM reset. Generating an
> >>>interrupt while at the same time resetting the system (or
> >>>part of it) doesn't seem to make much sense either.
> >>No these aren't bitmasks. The example was intended to indicate what could
> >>be used.
> >>In practice only a subset of each of these properties would make any sense.
> >>How
> >>would you suggest the example be formatted to convey that? Multiple examples
> >>I suppose.
> >>
> >I would just pick one (which is perfectly fine). After all, it is an example.
> >
> >Reminds me: Is there a default (eg the chip's default configuration) ?
> >In other words, what is expected to happen if none of the properties
> >is specified ?
> Default was to enable SOC reset (parameter aspeed,soc-reset) and system
> reset (aspeed,sys-reset). Based on your comments in patch v2 2/2 it would
> be necessary for backwards compatibility to preserve that default behavior.
> So it seems the optional parameters should be inverted for these:
> no-soc-reset, no-sys-reset.
>
I don't really understand what you are trying to say, sorry. no-sys-reset would
enable everything but sys-reset, and one would have to specify a lot of no-xxx
to select the one that is needed ? And not specifying anything would select
everything ? That sounds just weird.
I still don't see the problem with having a default.
Guenter
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