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Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported

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  Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported Paul Menzel <pmenzel@molgen.mpg.de> - 2017-01-31 16:40 +0100
    Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de> - 2017-01-31 18:30 +0100
    Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported "Austin S. Hemmelgarn" <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2017-01-31 20:00 +0100
    RE: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported <Mario.Limonciello@dell.com> - 2017-02-01 22:00 +0100

#1570831 — Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported

Dear Borislav, dear Mario,


On 01/27/17 18:16, Mario.Limonciello@dell.com wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Borislav Petkov [mailto:bp@alien8.de]
>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 11:11 AM
>> To: Paul Menzel <pmenzel@molgen.mpg.de>
>> Cc: Ashok Raj <ashok.raj@intel.com>; Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-
>> kernel@vger.kernel.org>; Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>; Len
>> Brown <len.brown@intel.com>; Tony Luck <tony.luck@intel.com>;
>> Limonciello, Mario <Mario_Limonciello@Dell.com>
>> Subject: Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 02:35:16PM +0100, Paul Menzel wrote:
>>> Thank you very much for your help. After wasting my time with the Dell
>>> support over Twitter [1], where they basically also make you jump
>>> through hoops,
>>
>> Fun read that twitter page. Especially the bit about not supporting Linux but
>> but you did ship this laptop with ubuntu. LOOL.
>>
>> FWIW, this is not the first time I've heard vendors trying to get away from
>> dealing with bugs by playing the "we-dont-support-Linux" card.

I think, in this case it was an honest mistake from the support person, 
which they corrected in a follow-up post.

But the next conversion was a little disappointing as the problem was 
already diagnosed out on the LKML.

As Mario replied, the Twitter people do not seem to know the free 
software world that well, that “normal” people actually are in contact 
with the developers.

What surprises me though is, that the change-log for the firmware seems 
to be incomplete even for the Dell staff.

>> Good to know when I go looking for a new laptop in the future.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options. If you know a good 
vendor, please share.

Dell is one of the view “big” vendors selling laptops with a GNU/Linux 
operating system installed.

There are Google Chromebooks, which even have coreboot. Google’s 
Chromium team does a great job and have a great quality assurance. On 
par, or even better than Apple, I’d say.

Some people need more powerful devices though.

In Germany, I know of TUXEDO [1]. Also, Purism devices have GNU/Linux 
installed [2].

TUXEDO does not build the devices themselves, and gets template 
models(?) from Chinese manufactures. They only seem to start hiring the 
expertise to do Linux kernel and OS work themselves [3]. Currently, it’s 
mostly the stock Ubuntu for desktop with their artwork and some small 
optimizations.

> Sorry you had that experience.  I'll pass that on to get that messaging
> corrected.  The team that does Linux support doesn't use twitter, they
> do phone and email support only.

Thank you that’s good to know.

> I'm glad you got things sorted moving to the next FW version.

Me too.

Mario, there are at least two more firmware bugs [4][5][6]. Having fast 
suspend and resume says something about the quality of a device. If the 
Dell XPS13 9360 is supposed to compete with Apple devices, and Google 
Chromebooks, then this should be improved in my opinion. Do you have a 
suggestion on how to best get this solved? Do you want me to contact the 
support, or are there Dell employees with access to the Linux kernel 
Bugzilla bug tracker?


Kind regards,

Paul


[1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/
[2] https://puri.sm/
[3] 
https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Jobs-Karriere-Stellenausschreibungen.geek?x6a1ec=o8323ih26224vook9uu997r1a5
[4] https://github.molgen.mpg.de/mariux64/dell_xps13/
[5] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185611
[6] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185621

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#1570919

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 04:29:51PM +0100, Paul Menzel wrote:
> Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options. If you know a good
> vendor, please share.

What I'd do is go to the store with a live CD and boot it on the
machine. Using a fairly recent allmodconfig kernel should be able to
tell you what works and what doesn't.

If there's no store, you can still return it in the first 14 days
according to EU law.

> Dell is one of the view “big” vendors selling laptops with a GNU/Linux
> operating system installed.
> 
> There are Google Chromebooks, which even have coreboot.

Yes, I dream of the day when we get rid of that vendor firmware and we
all use coreboot. That'll be a good day.

> team does a great job and have a great quality assurance. On par, or even
> better than Apple, I’d say.
> 
> Some people need more powerful devices though.
> 
> In Germany, I know of TUXEDO [1]. Also, Purism devices have GNU/Linux
> installed [2].
> 
> TUXEDO does not build the devices themselves, and gets template models(?)
> from Chinese manufactures.

Looks cool. Especially if I don't want to pay for that windoze license
being shoved down my throat.

I'd probably give it a try next time I need new hw. Thanks for the tip!

-- 
Regards/Gruss,
    Boris.

Good mailing practices for 400: avoid top-posting and trim the reply.

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#1570999

On 2017-01-31 10:29, Paul Menzel wrote:
> Dear Borislav, dear Mario,
>
>
> On 01/27/17 18:16, Mario.Limonciello@dell.com wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Borislav Petkov [mailto:bp@alien8.de]
>>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 11:11 AM
>>> To: Paul Menzel <pmenzel@molgen.mpg.de>
>>> Cc: Ashok Raj <ashok.raj@intel.com>; Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-
>>> kernel@vger.kernel.org>; Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>; Len
>>> Brown <len.brown@intel.com>; Tony Luck <tony.luck@intel.com>;
>>> Limonciello, Mario <Mario_Limonciello@Dell.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 02:35:16PM +0100, Paul Menzel wrote:
>>>> Thank you very much for your help. After wasting my time with the Dell
>>>> support over Twitter [1], where they basically also make you jump
>>>> through hoops,
>>>
>>> Fun read that twitter page. Especially the bit about not supporting
>>> Linux but
>>> but you did ship this laptop with ubuntu. LOOL.
>>>
>>> FWIW, this is not the first time I've heard vendors trying to get
>>> away from
>>> dealing with bugs by playing the "we-dont-support-Linux" card.
>
> I think, in this case it was an honest mistake from the support person,
> which they corrected in a follow-up post.
>
> But the next conversion was a little disappointing as the problem was
> already diagnosed out on the LKML.
>
> As Mario replied, the Twitter people do not seem to know the free
> software world that well, that “normal” people actually are in contact
> with the developers.
>
> What surprises me though is, that the change-log for the firmware seems
> to be incomplete even for the Dell staff.
>
>>> Good to know when I go looking for a new laptop in the future.
>
> Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options. If you know a good
> vendor, please share.
>
> Dell is one of the view “big” vendors selling laptops with a GNU/Linux
> operating system installed.
>
> There are Google Chromebooks, which even have coreboot. Google’s
> Chromium team does a great job and have a great quality assurance. On
> par, or even better than Apple, I’d say.
>
> Some people need more powerful devices though.
>
> In Germany, I know of TUXEDO [1]. Also, Purism devices have GNU/Linux
> installed [2].
>
> TUXEDO does not build the devices themselves, and gets template
> models(?) from Chinese manufactures. They only seem to start hiring the
> expertise to do Linux kernel and OS work themselves [3]. Currently, it’s
> mostly the stock Ubuntu for desktop with their artwork and some small
> optimizations.
When it comes to laptops, I've recently become a fan of System76 [1]. 
Linux runs pretty much flawlessly on all the systems I've ever 
encountered from them without needing any special configuration, and 
they offer some pretty high-end systems.  Their Oryx Pro laptop is 
particularly impressive, it's got hardware on par with a desktop bearing 
a similar price-tag, which is rare even for systems that ship with 
Windows per-installed.  They're based in the US, but I'm pretty certain 
they ship worldwide, and like most of the better manufacturers these 
days, the systems are made-to-order with quite a lot in the way of 
options (you can even get an NVMe boot drive in their higher-end systems 
if you're willing to shell out more than a third of the base cost for 
the system on it).

They also do desktops and servers, but it's generally cheaper in my 
experience for anything but a laptop to just build it yourself.
>
>> Sorry you had that experience.  I'll pass that on to get that messaging
>> corrected.  The team that does Linux support doesn't use twitter, they
>> do phone and email support only.
>
> Thank you that’s good to know.
>
>> I'm glad you got things sorted moving to the next FW version.
>
> Me too.
>
> Mario, there are at least two more firmware bugs [4][5][6]. Having fast
> suspend and resume says something about the quality of a device. If the
> Dell XPS13 9360 is supposed to compete with Apple devices, and Google
> Chromebooks, then this should be improved in my opinion. Do you have a
> suggestion on how to best get this solved? Do you want me to contact the
> support, or are there Dell employees with access to the Linux kernel
> Bugzilla bug tracker?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
> [1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/
> [2] https://puri.sm/
> [3]
> https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Jobs-Karriere-Stellenausschreibungen.geek?x6a1ec=o8323ih26224vook9uu997r1a5
>
> [4] https://github.molgen.mpg.de/mariux64/dell_xps13/
> [5] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185611
> [6] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185621
[1] https://system76.com/

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#1571971

Hi Paul,

> Mario, there are at least two more firmware bugs [4][5][6]. Having fast
> suspend and resume says something about the quality of a device. If the Dell
> XPS13 9360 is supposed to compete with Apple devices, and Google
> Chromebooks, then this should be improved in my opinion. Do you have a
> suggestion on how to best get this solved? Do you want me to contact the
> support, or are there Dell employees with access to the Linux kernel Bugzilla
> bug tracker?
> 
> 

Thanks for sharing these to my attention.  I wasn't aware, and neither was the rest
of the team handling these machines.  I've started some internal discussion around
the slow ASL resume one.

The WoWLAN one, I'm not sure there will be much for us to do on the BIOS FW end.
As Kalle was mentioning, this comes down to the device FW needing to spin up.  The
easiest way to keep it quick is to leave the radio active, which is what WoWLAN will
accomplish.

The other option is going to be to move over to suspend to idle.  This will leave most
devices operational (in RTD3), freeze kernel threads and let the CPU go into a low
enough state.  Some of the plumbing that will allow supporting this has recently gone
in, but there are some problems to work through that will prevent letting machines
that support it make it the default until at least the next kernel version.

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