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Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging

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  Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> - 2017-01-03 16:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> - 2017-01-03 22:30 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Paul Bolle <pebolle@tiscali.nl> - 2017-01-03 23:00 +0100
        Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> - 2017-01-03 23:30 +0100
          Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Paul Bolle <pebolle@tiscali.nl> - 2017-01-04 00:00 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> - 2017-01-04 00:10 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org> - 2017-01-05 22:20 +0100

#1549885 — Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging

On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 08:06:46PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware,
> and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them
> on modern kernels, if at all.
> 
> All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI
> being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active
> PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s.
> 
> Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a
> patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware,
> only cleanups or global API changes.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
> Acked-by: Karsten Keil <isdn@linux-pingi.de>

This patch got added in the 4.6 kernel release.  As I am now taking
patches for 4.11-rc1, I figure it is time to just delete the
drivers/staging/i4l/ directory now, given that no one has really done
anything with it.  If people show up that wish to maintain it, I'll be
glad to revert it, or if someone really screams in the next week.
Otherwise it's time to just move on :)

thanks,

greg k-h

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#1550211

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 4:24:36 PM CET Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 08:06:46PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware,
> > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them
> > on modern kernels, if at all.
> > 
> > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI
> > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active
> > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s.
> > 
> > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a
> > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware,
> > only cleanups or global API changes.
> > 
> > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
> > Acked-by: Karsten Keil <isdn@linux-pingi.de>
> 
> This patch got added in the 4.6 kernel release.  As I am now taking
> patches for 4.11-rc1, I figure it is time to just delete the
> drivers/staging/i4l/ directory now, given that no one has really done
> anything with it.  If people show up that wish to maintain it, I'll be
> glad to revert it, or if someone really screams in the next week.
> Otherwise it's time to just move on 

Sounds good to me. My original series contained four more patches that
I did not post again after there was some concern[1] that we did not
come to a conclusion on:

isdn: gigaset: remove i4l code
isdn: move isdnhdlc out of i4l
isdn: i4l: move hisax driver to staging
isdn: move i4l to staging

I can post those as well, at least I think the first two are helpful
for untangling i4l from the rest of ISDN.  I also still think that
moving hisax and i4l to staging is reasonable given the state of
that code, even if there are a couple of users today.

	Arnd

[1] https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/4/762

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#1550245

On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 22:19 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> Sounds good to me. My original series contained four more patches that
> I did not post again after there was some concern[1] that we did not
> come to a conclusion on:
> 
> isdn: gigaset: remove i4l code

Let me repeat that I'm fine with a patch that does that.

> isdn: move isdnhdlc out of i4l
> isdn: i4l: move hisax driver to staging
> isdn: move i4l to staging
> 
> I can post those as well, at least I think the first two are helpful
> for untangling i4l from the rest of ISDN.  I also still think that
> moving hisax and i4l to staging is reasonable given the state of
> that code, even if there are a couple of users today.

There are? And even if there are: is there any reason to expect that moving
the rest of i4l to staging will result in anything other than a stream of
checkpatch cleanups?

How often did a bunch of drivers re-enter the tree after being sent to
staging?


Paul Bolle

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#1550259

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 10:54:19 PM CET Paul Bolle wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 22:19 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > isdn: move isdnhdlc out of i4l
> > isdn: i4l: move hisax driver to staging
> > isdn: move i4l to staging
> > 
> > I can post those as well, at least I think the first two are helpful
> > for untangling i4l from the rest of ISDN.  I also still think that
> > moving hisax and i4l to staging is reasonable given the state of
> > that code, even if there are a couple of users today.
> 
> There are? And even if there are: is there any reason to expect that moving
> the rest of i4l to staging will result in anything other than a stream of
> checkpatch cleanups?

To clarify: Karsten's concern was about the loss of features that are
present in i4l but not in mISDN. There were active users of those features
last year, so I assumed that there are still a few this year. However,
whether any of those users would ever need to move to a 4.11 kernel or
newer is an entirely different question.

As far as I'm concerned, we are totally fine as long as there exists a
longterm supported kernel that has i4l in drivers/staging. If we move
i4l to staging for v4.11 with the intention of removing it after the
2018 longterm release (i.e. after Deutsche Telekom turns off their
ISDN network), that gives us at least until 2020. I assume there will
be at least one older kernel with a longer end-of-support date.

> How often did a bunch of drivers re-enter the tree after being sent to
> staging?

Greg can probably answer that. I'm sure it's either never or very rare.
The only case of removed code coming back later is arch/h8300, which
was removed in 2013 and replaced with a much nicer implementation
in 2015.

	Arnd

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#1550271

On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 23:25 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> As far as I'm concerned, we are totally fine as long as there exists a
> longterm supported kernel that has i4l in drivers/staging.

Or in drivers/isdn, right?


Paul Bolle

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#1550279

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 11:57:36 PM CET Paul Bolle wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 23:25 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > As far as I'm concerned, we are totally fine as long as there exists a
> > longterm supported kernel that has i4l in drivers/staging.
> 
> Or in drivers/isdn, right?

Right, I was assuming that we would first move it to staging and then
delete it, both at future points in time that we can debate. With the
existing longterm kernels that have i4l in drivers/isdn, the few remaining
users still have access to a supported kernel release until at least
2020.

	Arnd

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#1552334

On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 10:19:29PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 4:24:36 PM CET Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 08:06:46PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> > > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware,
> > > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them
> > > on modern kernels, if at all.
> > > 
> > > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI
> > > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active
> > > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s.
> > > 
> > > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a
> > > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware,
> > > only cleanups or global API changes.
> > > 
> > > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
> > > Acked-by: Karsten Keil <isdn@linux-pingi.de>
> > 
> > This patch got added in the 4.6 kernel release.  As I am now taking
> > patches for 4.11-rc1, I figure it is time to just delete the
> > drivers/staging/i4l/ directory now, given that no one has really done
> > anything with it.  If people show up that wish to maintain it, I'll be
> > glad to revert it, or if someone really screams in the next week.
> > Otherwise it's time to just move on 
> 
> Sounds good to me.

Ok, now deleted!

thanks,

greg k-h

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