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Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation for fw_cfg ARM bindings

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  Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation for  fw_cfg ARM bindings Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org> - 2015-11-17 23:20 +0100
    Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation for  fw_cfg ARM bindings "Gabriel L. Somlo" <somlo@cmu.edu> - 2015-11-18 03:20 +0100
    Re: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation  for fw_cfg ARM bindings François Revol <revol@free.fr> - 2015-11-18 19:00 +0100
      Re: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation  for fw_cfg ARM bindings "Gabriel L. Somlo" <somlo@cmu.edu> - 2015-11-18 22:00 +0100

#1271696 — Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation for fw_cfg ARM bindings

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 15/11/2015 03:07, Rob Herring wrote:
>> We generally don't want DT docs to depend on other kernel documentation.
>
> DT docs do not contain a copy of the data sheets, either.  There is no
> reason to say how to use the device (and even then, only doing so
> partially) in the DT docs.

The difference is datasheets apply to all OS's, kernel documentation
does not. In theory at least this could be used for other OS's, right?

Perhaps QEMU is the right place to thoroughly describe this and DT and
sysfs docs can refer to it.

Rob
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#1271815

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 04:14:42PM -0600, Rob Herring wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 15/11/2015 03:07, Rob Herring wrote:
> >> We generally don't want DT docs to depend on other kernel documentation.
> >
> > DT docs do not contain a copy of the data sheets, either.  There is no
> > reason to say how to use the device (and even then, only doing so
> > partially) in the DT docs.
> 
> The difference is datasheets apply to all OS's, kernel documentation
> does not. In theory at least this could be used for other OS's, right?
> 
> Perhaps QEMU is the right place to thoroughly describe this and DT and
> sysfs docs can refer to it.

So, leave only ARM/DT specifc details in 
Documentation/devicetree/bindings/arm/fw-cfg.txt,
and rework the fw_cfg sysfs patch (1/4) to only document
sysfs specific details in
Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-firmware-qemu_fw_cfg ?

The fw_cfg "datasheet" does exist in QEMU already, so there is
something to point at from either/both of the above.

Thanks,
--Gabriel
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#1272427 — Re: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation for fw_cfg ARM bindings

On 17/11/2015 23:14, Rob Herring wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 15/11/2015 03:07, Rob Herring wrote:
>>> We generally don't want DT docs to depend on other kernel documentation.
>>
>> DT docs do not contain a copy of the data sheets, either.  There is no
>> reason to say how to use the device (and even then, only doing so
>> partially) in the DT docs.
> 
> The difference is datasheets apply to all OS's, kernel documentation
> does not. In theory at least this could be used for other OS's, right?

Would be nice indeed, as it's part of their intended purpose.

For now we have to shoehorn things into linux-only stuff (like initrd)
because well, nobody cares enough about NetBSD to compile U-Boot with
its internal API, so let alone adding custom Haiku code.

And of course, for things linux doesn't care about (like framebuffer
description) then we're stuck trying to guess where it's at and writing
drivers for our bootloader.

So if at least people were considering they aren't the only users of
this, that'd make life better for everyone.

> Perhaps QEMU is the right place to thoroughly describe this and DT and
> sysfs docs can refer to it.

The brilliant idea of FDT was that we could have a canonical source and
blob for it where people could send patches, but of course Linux and BSD
freaks disagreed, so you now find Linux-flavoured DTs for rPi and other
things, as well as BSD versions.

Please, at least get the binding documentation for this unique and
usable for everyone!

François.

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#1272566 — Re: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 4/4] devicetree: update documentation for fw_cfg ARM bindings

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 02:04:24PM +0100, François Revol wrote:
> On 17/11/2015 23:14, Rob Herring wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15/11/2015 03:07, Rob Herring wrote:
> >>> We generally don't want DT docs to depend on other kernel documentation.
> >>
> >> DT docs do not contain a copy of the data sheets, either.  There is no
> >> reason to say how to use the device (and even then, only doing so
> >> partially) in the DT docs.
> > 
> > The difference is datasheets apply to all OS's, kernel documentation
> > does not. In theory at least this could be used for other OS's, right?
> 
> Would be nice indeed, as it's part of their intended purpose.
> 
> For now we have to shoehorn things into linux-only stuff (like initrd)
> because well, nobody cares enough about NetBSD to compile U-Boot with
> its internal API, so let alone adding custom Haiku code.
> 
> And of course, for things linux doesn't care about (like framebuffer
> description) then we're stuck trying to guess where it's at and writing
> drivers for our bootloader.
> 
> So if at least people were considering they aren't the only users of
> this, that'd make life better for everyone.
> 
> > Perhaps QEMU is the right place to thoroughly describe this and DT and
> > sysfs docs can refer to it.
> 
> The brilliant idea of FDT was that we could have a canonical source and
> blob for it where people could send patches, but of course Linux and BSD
> freaks disagreed, so you now find Linux-flavoured DTs for rPi and other
> things, as well as BSD versions.
> 
> Please, at least get the binding documentation for this unique and
> usable for everyone!

That would be 'docs/specs/fw_cfg.txt' in the QEMU source tree. I will
avoid cut'n'pasting anything from there into either the proposed
Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-firmware-qemu_fw_cfg (leaving only the
sysfs specific bits in there), and also remove any redundant bits from
Documentation/devicetree/bindings/arm/fw-cfg.txt.

I'm inclined to add (in v5) a mention of 'qemu:docs/specs/fw_cfg.txt'
to both the proposed fw_cfg sysfs doc file, and to the existing fw_cfg
arm/dt node doc file, unless I get strong objections against doing so... :)

Thanks,
--Gabriel
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