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[PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

Started byBean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo) <beanhuo@micron.com>
First post2015-09-28 09:10 +0200
Last post2015-09-30 09:40 +0200
Articles 8 — 3 participants

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  [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired  page issue Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo)   <beanhuo@micron.com> - 2015-09-28 09:10 +0200
    Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@free-electrons.com> - 2015-09-28 09:50 +0200
      RE: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo)   <beanhuo@micron.com> - 2015-09-28 10:20 +0200
    Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at> - 2015-09-29 11:30 +0200
      RE: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo)   <beanhuo@micron.com> - 2015-09-30 07:40 +0200
        Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at> - 2015-09-30 09:00 +0200
          Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at> - 2015-10-02 12:30 +0200
        Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND  paired page issue Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@free-electrons.com> - 2015-09-30 09:40 +0200

#1233902 — [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromBean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo) <beanhuo@micron.com>
Date2015-09-28 09:10 +0200
Subject[PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qdAJs-6Z2-35@gated-at.bofh.it>
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#1233920 — Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromBoris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@free-electrons.com>
Date2015-09-28 09:50 +0200
SubjectRe: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qdBm9-7It-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1233902
Hi Bean,

Next time you send a patch series, could send all the patches in reply
to the cover letter?

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 07:02:35 +0000
Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo) <beanhuo@micron.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> This series aims at adding a bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page
> Power loss protection.
> MLC NAND paired page power loss is a known issue so far, MLC NAND pages are
> coupled in a sense that if you cut power while writing to a page, you corrupt not only
> this page, but also one of the previous pages which is paired with the current one.
> Currently, there is no a perfect solution for this. 
> This paired page solution is based on NAND multiple plane program feature. For this
> Patch, only used dual plane page program, means two different plane pages can
> Be programmed together at the same time.
> Dual plane page program only implements in backup operation. Only lower page data
> Be duplicated and back up into a internal log volume by dual plane program method.

Hm, I'm not very fond of the idea, especially because of the complexity
caused by dual plane program operations (you can't take a random block
to write your backup on it, which means WL is complexified too), and
the fact that you're duplicating data (thus introducing a performance
penalty and storage overhead).

> 
> This patch has been testing on Micron 70s/80s/90s MLC NAND.
> Of course there are some places needed to be improved and simplified.
> 
> Any suggestion and comments welcomed.

Sure, I'll try to review it soon.

Thanks for submitting those patches.

Best Regards,

Boris

-- 
Boris Brezillon, Free Electrons
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
http://free-electrons.com
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#1233935 — RE: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromBean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo) <beanhuo@micron.com>
Date2015-09-28 10:20 +0200
SubjectRE: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qdBPc-55-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1233920
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#1234911 — Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromRichard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>
Date2015-09-29 11:30 +0200
SubjectRe: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qdZot-2mn-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1233902
Hi!

Am 28.09.2015 um 09:02 schrieb Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo):
> Hello,
> 
> This series aims at adding a bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page
> Power loss protection.
> MLC NAND paired page power loss is a known issue so far, MLC NAND pages are
> coupled in a sense that if you cut power while writing to a page, you corrupt not only
> this page, but also one of the previous pages which is paired with the current one.
> Currently, there is no a perfect solution for this. 
> This paired page solution is based on NAND multiple plane program feature. For this
> Patch, only used dual plane page program, means two different plane pages can
> Be programmed together at the same time.
> Dual plane page program only implements in backup operation. Only lower page data
> Be duplicated and back up into a internal log volume by dual plane program method.
> 
> This patch has been testing on Micron 70s/80s/90s MLC NAND.
> Of course there are some places needed to be improved and simplified.
> 
> Any suggestion and comments welcomed.

As stated before, using OOB in UBI is not going to happen unless
proven that there is absolutely no other way to solve the paired pages
problem.

Nacked-by: Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>

Sorry,
//richard
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#1235763 — RE: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromBean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo) <beanhuo@micron.com>
Date2015-09-30 07:40 +0200
SubjectRE: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qeiht-44N-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1234911
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#1235812 — Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromRichard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>
Date2015-09-30 09:00 +0200
SubjectRe: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qejwS-5Mf-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1235763
Bean,

Am 30.09.2015 um 07:31 schrieb Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo):
>> As stated before, using OOB in UBI is not going to happen unless proven that
>> there is absolutely no other way to solve the paired pages problem.
>>
>> Nacked-by: Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>
>>
>> Sorry,
>> //Richard
> 
> Hi, Richard
> Thanks for your concern. I am a new patch submitter.
> Can you tell me Nacked-by means?

I basically means that I'm (as maintainer) really unhappy with this patches
and don't see a way to get them merged as the whole concept is not acceptable.

> By the way, Do you review my patches series ? I don't backup duplicated data in OOB .
> Can you specify which sector codes ? so that I can explain it in detail.

Okay. Maybe both Boris and I misread your code, can you please explain in detail
what functions like check_original_data() or mtd_write_dual_plane_oob() do?

Thanks,
//richard
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#1238100 — Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromRichard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>
Date2015-10-02 12:30 +0200
SubjectRe: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qf5Ld-Ax-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1235812
Bean,

Am 30.09.2015 um 08:55 schrieb Richard Weinberger:
>> By the way, Do you review my patches series ? I don't backup duplicated data in OOB .
>> Can you specify which sector codes ? so that I can explain it in detail.
> 
> Okay. Maybe both Boris and I misread your code, can you please explain in detail
> what functions like check_original_data() or mtd_write_dual_plane_oob() do?

Care to explain?
Maybe we can find a solution without OOB.
Boris proposed already some very promising ideas:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.mtd/61658

BTW: Will you be at Embedded Linuxcon Europe in Dublin?
Many MTD guys, including me, will be there.
Maybe we can discuss the problem in a nice pub, first round is on me. :-)

Thanks,
//richard
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#1235851 — Re: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue

FromBoris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@free-electrons.com>
Date2015-09-30 09:40 +0200
SubjectRe: [PATCH 0/9] drivers:mtd:UBI: add bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page issue
Message-ID<qek9C-6Kx-63@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#1235763
On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 05:31:43 +0000
Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo) <beanhuo@micron.com> wrote:

> > Am 28.09.2015 um 09:02 schrieb Bean Huo 霍斌斌 (beanhuo):
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > This series aims at adding a bakvol module for MLC NAND paired page
> > > Power loss protection.
> > > MLC NAND paired page power loss is a known issue so far, MLC NAND
> > > pages are coupled in a sense that if you cut power while writing to a
> > > page, you corrupt not only this page, but also one of the previous pages
> > which is paired with the current one.
> > > Currently, there is no a perfect solution for this.
> > > This paired page solution is based on NAND multiple plane program
> > > feature. For this Patch, only used dual plane page program, means two
> > > different plane pages can Be programmed together at the same time.
> > > Dual plane page program only implements in backup operation. Only
> > > lower page data Be duplicated and back up into a internal log volume by
> > dual plane program method.
> > >
> > > This patch has been testing on Micron 70s/80s/90s MLC NAND.
> > > Of course there are some places needed to be improved and simplified.
> > >
> > > Any suggestion and comments welcomed.
> > 
> > As stated before, using OOB in UBI is not going to happen unless proven that
> > there is absolutely no other way to solve the paired pages problem.
> > 
> > Nacked-by: Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>
> > 
> > Sorry,
> > //Richard
> 
> Hi, Richard
> Thanks for your concern. I am a new patch submitter.
> Can you tell me Nacked-by means?
> 
> By the way, Do you review my patches series ? I don't backup duplicated data in OOB .

That's not what Richard said, he just pointed that you were using the
OOB area, and you're actually using it to store the information about
which page you're backuping.

> Can you specify which sector codes ? so that I can explain it in detail.

And as answered by Richard, check_original_data() and
mtd_write_dual_plane_oob() are filling the OOB buf with the original
page offset, so you're definitely using the OOB area to store metadata.

-- 
Boris Brezillon, Free Electrons
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
http://free-electrons.com
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