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Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf)

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* Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 03:30:31PM -0700, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> writes:
> > >
> > > The ORC data format does have a few downsides compared to DWARF.  The
> > > ORC unwind tables take up ~1MB more memory than DWARF eh_frame tables.
> > >
> > Can we have an option to just use dwarf instead? For people
> > who don't want to waste a MB+ to solve a problem that doesn't
> > exist (as proven by many years of opensuse kernel experience)
> > 
> > As far as I can tell this whole thing has only downsides compared
> > to the dwarf unwinder that was earlier proposed. I don't see
> > a single advantage.
> 
> Improved speed, reliability, maintainability.  Are those not advantages?

Exactly, and all these advantages of the ORC debuginfo over DWARF debuginfo are 
enabled by an unwinding optimized data format that the kernel project generates, 
controls and is able to trust inherently.

DWARF generated by external tooling can just never reach that level of trust, 
without insane amounts of formal verification.

Even if ORC was _slower_ its reliability would be reason enough to merge. The fact 
that it's 20-40 times faster than the DWARF unwinder is really just icing on the 
cake.

BTW., as a side note, (and I hope my optimism isn't premature), I believe the ORC 
unwinder is a prime example of where Linus's stubborness resisting poor concepts 
paid off in the long run: had we merged the DWARF unwinder years ago we'd never 
have gained the ORC unwinder. We quite literally had to wait over a decade, but 
good things happened in the end.

Thanks,

	Ingo

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[PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-11 17:40 +0200
  Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2017-07-12 10:30 +0200
    Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-12 16:50 +0200
      Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2017-07-12 21:30 +0200
        Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-14 19:20 +0200
  Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> - 2017-07-12 23:50 +0200
    Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 00:40 +0200
      Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> - 2017-07-13 00:40 +0200
        Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 00:50 +0200
          Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> - 2017-07-13 01:00 +0200
      Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2017-07-13 09:20 +0200
        Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2017-07-13 11:00 +0200
          Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2017-07-13 11:20 +0200
            Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 14:20 +0200
              Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 14:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 14:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2017-07-14 10:40 +0200
              Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2017-07-14 10:30 +0200
        Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2017-07-13 11:00 +0200
  Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2017-07-13 00:40 +0200
    Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 00:50 +0200
      Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2017-07-13 06:30 +0200
        Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Josh Poimboeuf <jpoimboe@redhat.com> - 2017-07-13 15:20 +0200
      Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2017-07-13 11:30 +0200
    Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-13 01:30 +0200
    Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-07-13 05:10 +0200
      Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2017-07-13 06:20 +0200
        Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-07-13 06:40 +0200
          Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2017-07-13 06:50 +0200
            Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-07-13 07:30 +0200
            Re: [PATCH v3 00/10] x86: ORC unwinder (previously undwarf) Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org> - 2017-07-13 14:10 +0200

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