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Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete

From Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com>
Newsgroups linux.kernel
Subject Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete
Date 2017-06-03 23:50 +0200
Message-ID <tOp5L-3Sp-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <tNYRY-4gc-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <tO07o-5bS-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <tO4E2-7Qc-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <tO9u1-2Lr-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <tOgvv-723-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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Stephan's driver, the HAVEGE system & several others purport to
extract entropy from a series of timer calls. Probably the best
analysis is in the Mcguire et al. paper at
https://static.lwn.net/images/conf/rtlws11/random-hardware.pdf & the
simplest code in my user-space driver at
https://github.com/sandy-harris/maxwell The only kernel-space code I
know of is Stephan's.

If the claim that such calls give entropy is accepted (which I think
it should be) then if we get one bit per call, need 100 or so bits &
space the calls 100 ns apart, loading up a decent chunk of startup
entropy takes about 10,000 ns or 10 microseconds which looks like an
acceptable delay. Can we just do that very early in the boot process?

Of course this will fail on systems with no high-res timer. Are there
still some of those? It might be done in about 1000 times as long on a
system that lacks the realtime library's nanosecond timer but has the
Posix standard microsecond timer, implying a delay time in the
milliseconds. Would that be acceptable in those cases?

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Thread

get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-02 17:10 +0200
  Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-02 18:00 +0200
    Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-02 18:50 +0200
    Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness  before seeding is complete Daniel Micay <danielmicay@gmail.com> - 2017-06-02 19:50 +0200
      Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness  before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-02 19:50 +0200
      Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness  before seeding is complete Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2017-06-02 21:00 +0200
  Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is  complete Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2017-06-02 19:30 +0200
    Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-02 19:50 +0200
      Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is  complete Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2017-06-02 21:10 +0200
        Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-03 02:00 +0200
          Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness  before seeding is complete Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 02:30 +0200
          [PATCH RFC 2/3] random: add get_random_{bytes,u32,u64,int,long}_wait family "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-03 04:40 +0200
          [PATCH RFC 0/3] get_random_bytes seed blocking "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-03 04:40 +0200
            [PATCH RFC 1/3] random: add synchronous API for the urandom pool "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-03 04:40 +0200
            [PATCH RFC 3/3] random: warn when kernel uses unseeded randomness "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-03 04:40 +0200
          Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is  complete Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2017-06-03 07:10 +0200
            Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2017-06-03 14:40 +0200
              Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com> - 2017-06-03 23:50 +0200
                Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2017-06-04 01:00 +0200
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness  before seeding is complete Daniel Micay <danielmicay@gmail.com> - 2017-06-04 02:00 +0200
                Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete Stephan Müller <smueller@chronox.de> - 2017-06-04 08:00 +0200
  Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete Stephan Müller <smueller@chronox.de> - 2017-06-04 07:50 +0200
    Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2017-06-04 08:00 +0200
  Re: get_random_bytes returns bad randomness before seeding is complete Stephan Müller <smueller@chronox.de> - 2017-06-04 08:30 +0200

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