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Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5

From "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
Newsgroups linux.kernel
Subject Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5
Date 2016-12-22 04:20 +0100
Message-ID <sR25c-3JP-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <sQYbf-1hM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <sQYbg-1hM-43@gated-at.bofh.it> <sQYXD-1An-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <sR0Zr-32l-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <sR1C9-3eC-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:49 AM, Jason A. Donenfeld <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
> I did have two objections to this. The first was that my SipHash
> construction is faster. But in any case, they're both faster than the
> current MD5, so it's just extra rice. The second, and the more
> important one, was that batching entropy up like this means that 32
> calls will be really fast, and then the 33rd will be slow, since it
> has to do a whole ChaCha round, because get_random_bytes must be
> called to refill the batch. Since get_random_long is called for every
> process startup, I didn't really like there being inconsistent
> performance on process startup. And I'm pretty sure that one ChaCha
> whole block is slower than computing MD5, even though it lasts 32
> times as long, though I need to measure this. But maybe that's dumb in
> the end? Are these concerns that should point us toward the
> determinism (and speed) of SipHash? Are these concerns that don't
> matter and so we should roll with the simplicity of reusing ChaCha?

I ran some measurements in order to quantify what I'm talking about.
Repeatedly running md5_transform is about 2.3 times faster than
repeatedly running extract_crng. What does this mean?

One call to extract_crng gives us 32 times as many longs as one call
to md5_transform. This means that spread over 32 process creations,
chacha will be 13.9 times faster. However, every 32nd process will
take 2.3 times as long to generate its ASLR value as it would with the
old md5_transform code.

Personally, I don't think that 2.3 is a big deal. And I really like
how much this simplifies the analysis.
But if it's a big deal to you, then we can continue to discuss my
SipHash construction, which gives faster and more consistent
performance, at the cost of a more complicated and probably less
impressive security analysis.

Jason

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[PATCH v5 0/4] The SipHash Patchset "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-15 21:40 +0100
  [PATCH v5 4/4] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-15 21:40 +0100
  [PATCH v5 3/4] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-15 21:40 +0100
    RE: [PATCH v5 3/4] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM> - 2016-12-16 11:10 +0100
      Re: [PATCH v5 3/4] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 17:00 +0100
  [PATCH v5 2/4] siphash: add Nu{32,64} helpers "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-15 21:50 +0100
    RE: [PATCH v5 2/4] siphash: add Nu{32,64} helpers David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM> - 2016-12-16 11:50 +0100
      RE: [PATCH v5 2/4] siphash: add Nu{32,64} helpers "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-16 16:50 +0100
  [PATCH v6 4/5] md5: remove from lib and only live in crypto "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 04:10 +0100
  [PATCH v6 2/5] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 04:10 +0100
  [PATCH v6 5/5] syncookies: use SipHash in place of SHA1 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 04:10 +0100
  [PATCH v6 0/5] The SipHash Patchset "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 04:10 +0100
    [PATCH v6 3/5] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 04:10 +0100
      Re: [PATCH v6 3/5] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2016-12-16 22:40 +0100
    [PATCH v6 1/5] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 04:10 +0100
    [PATCH v7 0/6] The SipHash Patchset "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
      [PATCH v7 6/6] siphash: implement HalfSipHash1-3 for hash tables "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
        Re: [PATCH v7 6/6] siphash: implement HalfSipHash1-3 for hash tables Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com> - 2016-12-22 01:50 +0100
      [PATCH v7 5/6] syncookies: use SipHash in place of SHA1 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
      [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
        Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:20 +0100
        Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2016-12-22 01:00 +0100
          Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org> - 2016-12-22 03:10 +0100
            Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2016-12-22 03:20 +0100
            Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 03:50 +0100
              Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 04:20 +0100
              Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-22 06:50 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 07:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-22 17:00 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 17:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-22 17:40 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 17:40 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org> - 2016-12-22 13:50 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 14:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org> - 2016-12-22 16:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 16:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 16:30 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org> - 2016-12-22 16:40 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 16:50 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org> - 2016-12-22 17:00 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 17:00 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-22 17:00 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Hannes Frederic Sowa <hannes@stressinduktion.org> - 2016-12-22 19:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 19:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in  place of MD5 Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-22 21:00 +0100
          Re: [PATCH v7 3/6] random: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 03:40 +0100
      [PATCH v7 4/6] md5: remove from lib and only live in crypto "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
      [PATCH v7 2/6] secure_seq: use SipHash in place of MD5 "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
      [PATCH v7 1/6] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-22 00:10 +0100
        Re: [PATCH v7 1/6] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org> - 2016-12-22 02:50 +0100

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