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Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF

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On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 2:13 PM, George Spelvin
<linux@sciencehorizons.net> wrote:
>> What should we do with get_random_int() and get_random_long()?  In
>> some cases it's being used in performance sensitive areas, and where
>> anti-DoS protection might be enough.  In others, maybe not so much.
>
> This is tricky.  The entire get_random_int() structure is an abuse of
> the hash function and will need to be thoroughly rethought to convert
> it to SipHash.  Remember, SipHash's security goals are very different
> from MD5, so there's no obvious way to do the conversion.
>
> (It's *documented* as "not cryptographically secure", but we know
> where that goes.)
>
>> If we rekeyed the secret used by get_random_int() and
>> get_random_long() frequently (say, every minute or every 5 minutes),
>> would that be sufficient for current and future users of these
>> interfaces?
>
> Remembering that on "real" machines it's full SipHash, then I'd say that
> 64-bit security + rekeying seems reasonable.
>
> The question is, the idea has recently been floated to make hsiphash =
> SipHash-1-3 on 64-bit machines.  Is *that* okay?
>
>
> The annoying thing about the currently proposed patch is that the *only*
> chaining is the returned value.  What I'd *like* to do is the same
> pattern as we do with md5, and remember v[0..3] between invocations.
> But there's no partial SipHash primitive; we only get one word back.
>
> Even
>         *chaining += ret = siphash_3u64(...)
>
> would be an improvement.

This is almost exactly what I suggested in my email on the other
thread from a few seconds ago :)

--Andy

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Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-16 04:50 +0100
  Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 13:50 +0100
    Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 17:00 +0100
      Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-16 18:40 +0100
        Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 19:10 +0100
          Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-16 21:20 +0100
            Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-16 21:50 +0100
              Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 23:20 +0100
                Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-17 00:50 +0100
                Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-17 02:50 +0100
                Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-17 03:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add  cryptographically secure PRF Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2016-12-17 16:50 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add  cryptographically secure PRF Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2016-12-17 17:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add  cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-19 18:30 +0100
              Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-16 23:20 +0100
                Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2016-12-16 23:20 +0100
      Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-17 13:50 +0100
    Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> - 2016-12-16 20:50 +0100
      Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add  cryptographically secure PRF Daniel Micay <danielmicay@gmail.com> - 2016-12-16 21:50 +0100
        Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add  cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 22:10 +0100
      Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-16 21:50 +0100
        Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> - 2016-12-16 22:00 +0100
      Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-17 16:30 +0100
        RE: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF David Laight <David.Laight@ACULAB.COM> - 2016-12-19 15:20 +0100
          RE: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net> - 2016-12-19 19:20 +0100
    Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> - 2016-12-16 21:50 +0100

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