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Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]

From "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
Newsgroups linux.kernel
Subject Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2]
Date 2016-11-25 17:20 +0100
Message-ID <sHroe-2Rp-17@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On 11/25/2016 04:51 PM, Mike Galbraith wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-11-25 at 16:04 +0100, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> 
>>>>        ┌─────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
>>>>        │FIXME                                                │
>>>>        ├─────────────────────────────────────────────────────┤
>>>>        │How do the nice value of  a  process  and  the  nice │
>>>>        │value of an autogroup interact? Which has priority?  │
>>>>        │                                                     │
>>>>        │It  *appears*  that the autogroup nice value is used │
>>>>        │for CPU distribution between task groups,  and  that │
>>>>        │the  process nice value has no effect there.  (I.e., │
>>>>        │suppose two  autogroups  each  contain  a  CPU-bound │
>>>>        │process,  with  one  process  having nice==0 and the │
>>>>        │other having nice==19.  It appears  that  they  each │
>>>>        │get  50%  of  the CPU.)  It appears that the process │
>>>>        │nice value has effect only with respect to  schedul‐ │
>>>>        │ing  relative to other processes in the *same* auto‐ │
>>>>        │group.  Is this correct?                             │
>>>>        └─────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
>>>
>>> Yup, entity nice level affects distribution among peer entities.
>>
>> Huh! I only just learned about this via my experiments while
>> investigating autogroups. 
>>
>> How long have things been like this? Always? (I don't think
>> so.) Since the arrival of CFS? Since the arrival of
>> autogrouping? (I'm guessing not.) Since some other point?
>> (When?)
> 
> Always.  Before CFS there just were no non-peers :)

Well that's one way of looking at it. So, the change 
that I'm talking about came in 2.6.32 with CFS then?

>> It seems to me that this renders the traditional process
>> nice pretty much useless. (I bet I'm not the only one who'd 
>> be surprised by the current behavior.)
> 
> Yup, group scheduling is not a single edged sword, those don't exist. 
>  Box wide nice loss is not the only thing that can bite you, fairness,
> whether group or task oriented cuts both ways.

Understood. But again I'll say, I bet a lot of old-time users
(and maybe many newer) would be surprised by the fact that 
nice(1) / setpriority(2) have effectively been rendered no-ops
in many use cases. At the very least, it'd have been nice
if someone had sent a man pages patch or at least a note...

Cheers,

Michael



-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

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Thread

RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-22 17:20 +0100
  [patch] sched/autogroup: Fix 64bit kernel nice adjustment Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 11:40 +0100
    Re: [patch] sched/autogroup: Fix 64bit kernel nice adjustment "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 14:50 +0100
      Re: [patch] sched/autogroup: Fix 64bit kernel nice adjustment Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 15:20 +0100
        Re: [patch] sched/autogroup: Fix 64bit kernel nice adjustment "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 15:30 +0100
          Re: [patch] sched/autogroup: Fix 64bit kernel nice adjustment Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 17:00 +0100
    [tip:sched/urgent] sched/autogroup: Fix 64-bit kernel nice level  adjustment tip-bot for Mike Galbraith <tipbot@zytor.com> - 2016-11-24 07:30 +0100
  Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 12:50 +0100
    Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 15:00 +0100
      Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 16:40 +0100
        Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 17:10 +0100
          Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 18:20 +0100
            Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 23:50 +0100
        Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 17:10 +0100
          Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-23 18:20 +0100
            RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-24 22:50 +0100
              Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Afzal Mohammed <afzal.mohd.ma@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 14:00 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 14:10 +0100
              Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-25 14:30 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 16:30 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 16:50 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-25 17:00 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 17:20 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 17:20 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 17:40 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 22:00 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 22:50 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 08:50 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-29 12:50 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 14:50 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 17:10 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 17:20 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 17:40 +0100
                Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature [v2] Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 23:50 +0100
        Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 22:20 +0100
          Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-28 02:50 +0100
            Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 10:20 +0100
              Re: RFC: documentation of the autogroup feature Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2016-11-29 14:50 +0100

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