Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable

From	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>
Newsgroups	linux.kernel
Subject	Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable
Date	2016-03-17 23:40 +0100
Message-ID	<rdOKf-54a-21@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 7:56 PM, Michael Turquette
<mturquette@baylibre.com> wrote:
> Quoting Juri Lelli (2016-03-17 10:54:07)
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 17/03/16 15:53, Patrick Bellasi wrote:
>> > On 17-Mar 06:55, Steve Muckle wrote:
>> > > On 03/17/2016 02:40 AM, Juri Lelli wrote:
>> > > >> Could the default schedtune value not serve as the out of the box margin?
>> > > >>
>> > > > I'm not sure I understand you here. For me schedtune should be disabled
>> > > > by default, so I'd say that it doesn't introduce any additional margin
>> > > > by default. But we still need a margin to make the governor work without
>> > > > schedtune in the mix.
>> > >
>> > > Why not have schedtune be enabled always, and use it to add the margin?
>> > > It seems like it'd simplify things.
>> >
>> > Actually one of the effects we noticed when SchedTune and SchedFreq
>> > are both in use is that we have a sort of "double boosting" effect.
>> >
>> > SchedTune boosts the CPU utilization signal, thus already providing a
>> > sort of margin for the selection of the OPP. This margin overlaps with
>> > the SchedFreq margin, which in turns could results in the selection of
>> > an OPP even more higher than required (with boost already accouned).
>> >
>> > > I haven't looked at the schedtune code at all so I don't know whether
>> > > this makes sense given its current implementation.
>> >
>> > The current implementation requires review, of course ;-)
>> > Last (and only) posting is based on top of SchedFreq code, as it was
>> > at that time.
>> >
>> > > But conceptually I don't know why we'd need or want one margin in
>> > > schedutil which will be tunable, and then another mechanism for
>> > > tuning as well.
>> >
>> > I agree with Steve on the conceptual standpoint. The main goal of
>> > SchedTune is actually to provide a "single tunable" to bias many
>> > different subsystem in a "consistent" way. Thus, from a conceptual
>> > standpoint, IMO it makes sens to investigate better how the boost value
>> > can be linked with SchedFreq.
>> >
>> > A possible option can be to:
>> > 1. use an hardcoded margin (M) defined by SchedFreq
>> >    this margin is used to trigger OPP jumps
>> >    when SchedTune _is not_ in use
>> > 2. "compose" the M margin with a boost value defined margin (B)
>> >    when SchedTune _is_ in use
>> >
>> > This means, e.g.
>> >   schedfreq_margin = max(M, B)
>> > Thus:
>> > a) non boosted tasks (and in general when SchedTune is not in use)
>> >    gets OPPs jumps based on the hardcoded M margin
>> > b) boosted tasks can get more aggressive OPPs jumps based on the B
>> >    margin
>> >
>> > While the M margin is hardcoded, the B one is defined via CGroups
>> > depending on the how much tasks needs to be boosted.
>> >
>>
>> Makes sense to me. And I think M margin is the one we don't want to make
>> part of the ABI and only play with it under DEBUG.
>
> Correct.
>
> Regarding "composing" the margin, schedtune could even overwrite the
> margin entirely via cpufreq_set_cfs_capacity_margin (see patch #2 in
> this series). This avoids complications around a "double boosting"
> effect.
>
> Either way, it sounds like the schedtune angle is something that we can
> figure out in due time and change the code as needed later on. For
> schedutil to make sense for frequency-invariant platforms we do need a
> margin today, and there is desire to tune it easily, so I will move this
> sysfs knob to a debug knob in v2.

Sounds good!

Also, if you look at the latest iteration of the schedutil patch
(https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/8612561/), it maps the choice of
the margin to the choice of the frequency tipping point.  That is, the
value of (util / max) for which the frequency will stay the same as it
was before.  [For (util / max) below the tipping point the new
frequency will be less than the old one (unless it already is minimum)
and for (util / max) above it, the new frequency will be greater than
the old one.]

The tipping point seems to be a good candidate for a tunable to me,
because its meaning is well defined and the range of values that make
sense is quite easy to figure out too.

Thread

[PATCH 0/8] schedutil enhancements Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
  [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:30 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:50 +0100
        Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Steve Muckle <steve.muckle@linaro.org> - 2016-03-16 04:40 +0100
          Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 09:10 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Juri Lelli <Juri.Lelli@arm.com> - 2016-03-16 11:10 +0100
              Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Steve Muckle <steve.muckle@linaro.org> - 2016-03-16 19:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-16 23:10 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Juri Lelli <Juri.Lelli@arm.com> - 2016-03-17 10:40 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Steve Muckle <steve.muckle@linaro.org> - 2016-03-17 15:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Patrick Bellasi <patrick.bellasi@arm.com> - 2016-03-17 17:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Juri Lelli <Juri.Lelli@arm.com> - 2016-03-17 19:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-17 20:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org> - 2016-03-17 23:40 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org> - 2016-03-16 13:50 +0100
          Re: [PATCH 4/8] cpufreq/schedutil: sysfs capacity margin tunable Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-16 23:10 +0100
  [PATCH 1/8] sched/cpufreq: remove cpufreq_trigger_update() Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 1/8] sched/cpufreq: remove cpufreq_trigger_update() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:20 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 1/8] sched/cpufreq: remove cpufreq_trigger_update() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 23:00 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 1/8] sched/cpufreq: remove cpufreq_trigger_update() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 09:10 +0100
  [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into cpufreq_update_util Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into  cpufreq_update_util Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:30 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into  cpufreq_update_util Steve Muckle <steve.muckle@linaro.org> - 2016-03-16 05:00 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into  cpufreq_update_util Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 08:50 +0100
        Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into cpufreq_update_util Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org> - 2016-03-16 09:40 +0100
          Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into  cpufreq_update_util Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 10:00 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into cpufreq_update_util Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org> - 2016-03-16 10:20 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into cpufreq_update_util "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org> - 2016-03-16 13:40 +0100
              Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into  cpufreq_update_util Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 14:20 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into cpufreq_update_util "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org> - 2016-03-16 14:30 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 5/8] sched/cpufreq: pass sched class into  cpufreq_update_util Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 14:50 +0100
  [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com> - 2016-03-15 20:20 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-15 21:50 +0100
        Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com> - 2016-03-16 20:50 +0100
          Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 21:10 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> - 2016-03-16 22:40 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:50 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 08:50 +0100
        Re: [PATCH 8/8] sched: prefer cpufreq_scale_freq_capacity Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-16 13:50 +0100
  [PATCH 2/8] sched/fair: add margin to utilization update Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 2/8] sched/fair: add margin to utilization update Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:20 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 2/8] sched/fair: add margin to utilization update Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:50 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 2/8] sched/fair: add margin to utilization update Steve Muckle <steve.muckle@linaro.org> - 2016-03-16 04:00 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 2/8] sched/fair: add margin to utilization update Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-16 23:20 +0100
  [PATCH 3/8] sched/cpufreq: new cfs capacity margin helpers Michael Turquette <mturquette@baylibre.com> - 2016-03-14 06:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 3/8] sched/cpufreq: new cfs capacity margin helpers Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-03-15 22:20 +0100
  Re: [PATCH 0/8] schedutil enhancements "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net> - 2016-03-16 01:10 +0100

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