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Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please

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On 2015-09-24 11:59, Daniel Vetter wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 11:21:15AM -0400, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
>> On 2015-09-24 08:46, Thomas Petazzoni wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> On Thu, 24 Sep 2015 15:27:01 +0300, Tomi Valkeinen wrote:
>>>
>>>> fbdev is (more or less) maintained, but it's a deprecated framework. All
>>>> new Linux display drivers should be done on DRM.
>>>>
>>>> So let's not add any more new fbdev drivers.
>>>>
>>>> I will continue to maintain the current fbdev drivers, and I don't mind
>>>> adding some new features to those current drivers, as long as the amount
>>>> of code required to add the features stays sensible.
>>>>
>>>> I see we have three fbdev drivers in staging: xgifb, fbtft and sm750fb,
>>>> and the question is what to do with those.
>>>>
>>>> xgifb was added in 2010, and is still in staging.
>>>>
>>>> fbtft looks like maybe some kind of framework on top of fbdev, with
>>>> fbtft specific subdrivers... I didn't look at it in detail, but my gut
>>>> says "never".
>>>
>>> fbtft mainly drives some very simple I2C-based or SPI-based displays,
>>> and DRM is I believe overkill for such displays. Last time I talked
>>> with Laurent Pinchart about such drivers, I believe he said that such
>>> simple drivers could probably continue to use the fbdev subsystem.
>> I have to agree, using DRM _really_ doesn't make sense for these, the
>> devices in question are (AFAIK) simple I2C or SPI connected frame-buffer
>> chips that are hooked up to equally simple TFT displays.  There's no 3d
>> acceleration at all from what I can tell, there's _very_ limited 2d
>> acceleration, and most of the stuff that the DRM framework provides
>> call-backs for would have to be done on the CPU anyway.  On top of that,
>> it's targeted at small embedded systems with limited memory, and the DRM
>> framework is by no-means lightweight (TBH, fbdev isn't really either, but
>> it's much more light weight than DRM).
>
> See my other mail, but you can write very simple drm drivers. And if
> there's really a bloat problem for small systems we can add Kconfig knobs
> to throw out everything not needed for simple drivers. The only problem
> really is that everyone with such simple drivers doesn't even consider drm
> "because I don't have a desktop gpu" which is just silly - drm has become
> rather flexible. And that's essentially why writing simple drm drivers
> still has a bit too much boilerplate, since no one yet bothered to add a
> bit of helper support needed.
>
Rather ironically, I got your other mail right after I sent this one.  I 
hadn't realized most of the points you made there (it's been a long time 
since I looked at any drm related code (largely because I've had 
absolutely 0 issues on my systems with it, which is a good thing :))). 
I do think being able to compile out some of the drm stuff that isn't 
used on a given system would be nice, and some good helper functions to 
simplify writing basic drivers would be absolutely wonderful.

As far as not considering it 'because I don't have a desktop GPU' goes, 
I agree, that is silly, although for some people it may be 'because my 
chip doesn't do any "rendering"', which brings up the rather complicated 
discussion of what constitutes a GPU and what 'rendering' means.

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Thread

No more new fbdev drivers, please Tomi Valkeinen <tomi.valkeinen@ti.com> - 2015-09-24 14:30 +0200
  Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@free-electrons.com> - 2015-09-24 14:50 +0200
    Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 17:30 +0200
      Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Alex Deucher <alexdeucher@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 17:40 +0200
      Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> - 2015-09-24 18:00 +0200
        Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 18:20 +0200
        Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Ondrej Zary <linux@rainbow-software.org> - 2015-09-24 19:20 +0200
          Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> - 2015-09-24 20:10 +0200
    Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> - 2015-09-24 17:30 +0200
      Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> - 2015-09-26 10:30 +0200
        Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Alex Deucher <alexdeucher@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 19:10 +0200
          Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> - 2015-09-26 20:10 +0200
            Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 20:20 +0200
              Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org> - 2015-09-26 20:50 +0200
                Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Rob Clark <robdclark@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 22:50 +0200
                Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Dave Airlie <airlied@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 00:00 +0200
                Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Emil Velikov <emil.l.velikov@gmail.com> - 2015-09-30 14:00 +0200
              Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Gerd Hoffmann <kraxel@redhat.com> - 2015-09-28 09:50 +0200
                Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> - 2015-09-28 14:40 +0200
                Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Gerd Hoffmann <kraxel@redhat.com> - 2015-09-29 10:30 +0200
                Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> - 2015-09-29 10:40 +0200
            Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Bernie Thompson <bernie@plugable.com> - 2015-09-28 23:00 +0200
            Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> - 2015-09-29 09:10 +0200
  Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Aaro Koskinen <aaro.koskinen@iki.fi> - 2015-09-25 11:00 +0200
    Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Ondrej Zary <linux@rainbow-software.org> - 2015-09-25 13:10 +0200
  Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Sudip Mukherjee <sudipm.mukherjee@gmail.com> - 2015-09-26 09:20 +0200
    Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Ilia Mirkin <imirkin@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-09-26 09:40 +0200
  Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Noralf Trønnes <noralf@tronnes.org> - 2015-09-27 15:20 +0200
    Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Emil Velikov <emil.l.velikov@gmail.com> - 2015-09-27 18:10 +0200
      Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Noralf Trønnes <noralf@tronnes.org> - 2015-09-29 01:00 +0200
        Re: No more new fbdev drivers, please Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch> - 2015-09-29 09:10 +0200

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