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Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics

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On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:09:41AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 06:30:28PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 08:34:48AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 04:14:39PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 07:09:22AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 02:48:00PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 05:41:42AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > > > > > Never mind, the PPC people will implement this with lwsync and that is
> > > > > > > > very much not transitive IIRC.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I am probably lost on context, but...
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > It turns out that lwsync is transitive in special cases.  One of them
> > > > > > > is a series of release-acquire pairs, which can extend indefinitely.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Does that help in this case?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Probably not, but good to know. I still don't think we want to rely on
> > > > > > ACQUIRE/RELEASE being transitive in general though.
> > > > > 
> > > > > OK, I will bite...  Why not?
> > > > 
> > > > It would mean us reviewing all archs (again) and documenting it I
> > > > suppose. Which is of course entirely possible.
> > > > 
> > > > That said, I don't think the case at hand requires it, so lets postpone
> > > > this for now ;-)
> > > 
> > > True enough, but in my experience smp_store_release() and
> > > smp_load_acquire() are a -lot- easier to use than other barriers,
> > > and transitivity will help promote their use.  So...
> > > 
> > > All the TSO architectures (x86, s390, SPARC, HPPA, ...) support transitive
> > > smp_store_release()/smp_load_acquire() via their native ordering in
> > > combination with barrier() macros.  x86 with CONFIG_X86_PPRO_FENCE=y,
> > > which is not TSO, uses an mfence instruction.  Power supports this via
> > > lwsync's partial cumulativity.  ARM64 supports it in SMP via the new ldar
> > > and stlr instructions (in non-SMP, it uses barrier(), which suffices
> > > in that case).  IA64 supports this via total ordering of all release
> > > instructions in theory and by the actual full-barrier implementation
> > > in practice (and the fact that gcc emits st.rel and ld.acq instructions
> > > for volatile stores and loads).  All other architectures use smp_mb(),
> > > which is transitive.
> > > 
> > > Did I miss anything?
> > 
> > I think that about covers it.. the only odd duckling might be s390 which
> > is documented as TSO but recently grew smp_mb__{before,after}_atomic(),
> > which seems to confuse matters.
> 
> Fair point, adding Martin and Heiko on CC for their thoughts.
> 
> It looks like this applies to recent mainframes that have new atomic
> instructions, which, yes, might need something to make them work with
> fully transitive smp_load_acquire() and smp_store_release().
> 
> Martin, Heiko, the question is whether or not the current s390
> smp_store_release() and smp_load_acquire() can be transitive.
> For example, if all the Xi variables below are initially zero,
> is it possible for all the r0, r1, r2, ... rN variables to
> have the value 1 at the end of the test.

Right...  This time actually adding Martin and Heiko on CC...

							Thanx, Paul

> CPU 0
> 	r0 = smp_load_acquire(&X0);
> 	smp_store_release(&X1, 1);
> 
> CPU 1
> 	r1 = smp_load_acquire(&X1);
> 	smp_store_release(&X2, 1);
> 
> CPU 2
> 	r2 = smp_load_acquire(&X2);
> 	smp_store_release(&X3, 1);
> 
> ...
> 
> CPU N
> 	rN = smp_load_acquire(&XN);
> 	smp_store_release(&X0, 1);
> 
> If smp_store_release() and smp_load_acquire() are transitive, the
> answer would be "no".
> 
> A similar litmus test involving atomics would be as follows, again
> with all Xi initially zero:
> 
> CPU 0
> 	atomic_inc(&X0);
> 	smp_store_release(&X1, 1);
> 
> CPU 1
> 	r1 = smp_load_acquire(&X1);
> 	smp_store_release(&X2, 1);
> 
> CPU 2
> 	r2 = smp_load_acquire(&X2);
> 	smp_store_release(&X3, 1);
> 
> ...
> 
> CPU N
> 	rN = smp_load_acquire(&XN);
> 	r0 = atomic_read(&X0);
> 
> Here, the question is whether r0 can be zero, but r1, r2, ... rN all
> being 1 at the end of the test.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 							Thanx, Paul

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[PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Davidlohr Bueso <dave@stgolabs.net> - 2015-09-14 09:40 +0200
  Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-14 14:40 +0200
    Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Davidlohr Bueso <dave@stgolabs.net> - 2015-09-14 23:10 +0200
      Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-15 12:00 +0200
        Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-15 12:00 +0200
          Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-15 14:50 +0200
            Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2015-09-15 16:20 +0200
              Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2015-09-15 17:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-15 18:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2015-09-15 19:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2015-09-18 23:50 +0200
                Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Martin Schwidefsky <schwidefsky@de.ibm.com> - 2015-09-21 11:30 +0200
          Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> - 2015-09-15 14:50 +0200
          Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Davidlohr Bueso <dave@stgolabs.net> - 2015-09-15 22:00 +0200
            Re: [PATCH -tip 2/3] sched/wake_q: Relax to acquire semantics Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2015-09-16 11:10 +0200

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