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The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and misinformation

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  The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and misinformation James Lu <jamtlu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-25 23:00 +0100
    Re: The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and  misinformation Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 15:10 +0100
      Re: The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and  misinformation Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 19:20 +0100
      Re: The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and  misinformation Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2021-03-27 15:20 +0100

#2031 — The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and misinformation

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This is my first time posting in a Debian mailing list, apologies if the
tone or is not what you are looking for in a Debian post. I wrote this
hurriedly in an attempt to help the free software movement avoid
splintering.

Stallman asked women out in a way we consider creepy. The letter phrases
this by saying Stallman has sexually harassed women for decades. The letter
seeks to group him in the same category as gropers and actual rapists.
In 1993, he defined pedophilia slightly differently. He made a genuine
apology. This is the basis of the "pedo apologist."
https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
After condemning the rape of a 17 year old girl in the Epstein case, Marvin
Minksy had sex with the girl, unaware the girl was being coerced by
Epstein. In accordance with the law of Canada and most U.S. states, it is
legal to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Nonetheless, we believe these
leaked private discussions make him equivalent to a rapist.
https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/
The original open letter's Appendix has two true claims of sexual
harassment:
- In 1999, he had a mattress in his office which he slept on. This made
some women avoid RMS because they considered it abnormal and creepy.
- In 1985, he told a woman he'd kill himself if he didn't date her.
The "hot ladies" nametag was fake; it was vandalized from a third party.
https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-was-leveraged-against-rms/#post-4297:~:text=As%20for%20the%20label%20on%20Richard,removed%20the%20ending%3A%20(also%3A%20hot%20ladies)
He has never been accused of groping or sexual assault.
Stallman has hundreds of posts on his personal blog condemning rape, and
they cherry-pick the one post where he argued for a different definition of
rape.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-may-aug.html
The GNU Kind Communication Guidelines ask you to honor gender identity. The
letter says it is "still transphobic" and accuses him of "thinly disguised
transphobia," possibly because it includes calling someone via only
gender-neutral pronouns such as "they."
I strongly urge everyone to avoid splintering the free software movement. I
understand you do not want to be associated with racism, sexism,
transphobia, and ableism. The accusers do indeed label anyone who don't
agree with them as sexist and transphobic. This is how they did it in
McCarthy era.[0] Resist the urge to be performative and stick to principles.

[0]: https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship

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#2082 — Re: The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and misinformation

Does anyone have a response to this?

The current efforts really smells of a witch-hunt and an attempt to manufacture consent.

Ximin

James Lu:
> This is my first time posting in a Debian mailing list, apologies if the tone or is not what you are looking for in a Debian post. I wrote this hurriedly in an attempt to help the free software movement avoid splintering.
> 
> Stallman asked women out in a way we consider creepy. The letter phrases this by saying Stallman has sexually harassed women for decades. The letter seeks to group him in the same category as gropers and actual rapists.
> In 1993, he defined pedophilia slightly differently. He made a genuine apology. This is the basis of the "pedo apologist." https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) <https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)>
> After condemning the rape of a 17 year old girl in the Epstein case, Marvin Minksy had sex with the girl, unaware the girl was being coerced by Epstein. In accordance with the law of Canada and most U.S. states, it is legal to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Nonetheless, we believe these leaked private discussions make him equivalent to a rapist. https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/ <https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/>
> The original open letter's Appendix has two true claims of sexual harassment:
> - In 1999, he had a mattress in his office which he slept on. This made some women avoid RMS because they considered it abnormal and creepy.
> - In 1985, he told a woman he'd kill himself if he didn't date her.
> The "hot ladies" nametag was fake; it was vandalized from a third party. https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-was-leveraged-against-rms/#post-4297:~:text=As%20for%20the%20label%20on%20Richard,removed%20the%20ending%3A%20(also%3A%20hot%20ladies) <https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-was-leveraged-against-rms/#post-4297:~:text=As%20for%20the%20label%20on%20Richard,removed%20the%20ending%3A%20(also%3A%20hot%20ladies)>
> He has never been accused of groping or sexual assault.
> Stallman has hundreds of posts on his personal blog condemning rape, and they cherry-pick the one post where he argued for a different definition of rape. https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-may-aug.html <https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-may-aug.html>
> The GNU Kind Communication Guidelines ask you to honor gender identity. The letter says it is "still transphobic" and accuses him of "thinly disguised transphobia," possibly because it includes calling someone via only gender-neutral pronouns such as "they."
> I strongly urge everyone to avoid splintering the free software movement. I understand you do not want to be associated with racism, sexism, transphobia, and ableism. The accusers do indeed label anyone who don't agree with them as sexist and transphobic. This is how they did it in McCarthy era.[0] Resist the urge to be performative and stick to principles.
> 
> [0]: https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship <https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship>


-- 
GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git

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#2098 — Re: The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and misinformation

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I certainly don't.

The problems at issue are amply documented on the Internet and I'm not going
to debate them here.

You don't have to vote for the GR, and I'm not going to waste time knocking
down strawmen from a third party in order to persuade you.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 02:08:24PM +0000, Ximin Luo wrote:
> Does anyone have a response to this?
> 
> The current efforts really smells of a witch-hunt and an attempt to manufacture consent.
> 
> Ximin
> 
> James Lu:
> > This is my first time posting in a Debian mailing list, apologies if the tone or is not what you are looking for in a Debian post. I wrote this hurriedly in an attempt to help the free software movement avoid splintering.

> > Stallman asked women out in a way we consider creepy. The letter phrases this by saying Stallman has sexually harassed women for decades. The letter seeks to group him in the same category as gropers and actual rapists.
> > In 1993, he defined pedophilia slightly differently. He made a genuine apology. This is the basis of the "pedo apologist." https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) <https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)>
> > After condemning the rape of a 17 year old girl in the Epstein case, Marvin Minksy had sex with the girl, unaware the girl was being coerced by Epstein. In accordance with the law of Canada and most U.S. states, it is legal to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Nonetheless, we believe these leaked private discussions make him equivalent to a rapist. https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/ <https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/>
> > The original open letter's Appendix has two true claims of sexual harassment:
> > - In 1999, he had a mattress in his office which he slept on. This made some women avoid RMS because they considered it abnormal and creepy.
> > - In 1985, he told a woman he'd kill himself if he didn't date her.
> > The "hot ladies" nametag was fake; it was vandalized from a third party. https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-was-leveraged-against-rms/#post-4297:~:text=As%20for%20the%20label%20on%20Richard,removed%20the%20ending%3A%20(also%3A%20hot%20ladies) <https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-was-leveraged-against-rms/#post-4297:~:text=As%20for%20the%20label%20on%20Richard,removed%20the%20ending%3A%20(also%3A%20hot%20ladies)>
> > He has never been accused of groping or sexual assault.
> > Stallman has hundreds of posts on his personal blog condemning rape, and they cherry-pick the one post where he argued for a different definition of rape. https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-may-aug.html <https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-may-aug.html>
> > The GNU Kind Communication Guidelines ask you to honor gender identity. The letter says it is "still transphobic" and accuses him of "thinly disguised transphobia," possibly because it includes calling someone via only gender-neutral pronouns such as "they."
> > I strongly urge everyone to avoid splintering the free software movement. I understand you do not want to be associated with racism, sexism, transphobia, and ableism. The accusers do indeed label anyone who don't agree with them as sexist and transphobic. This is how they did it in McCarthy era.[0] Resist the urge to be performative and stick to principles.
> > 
> > [0]: https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship <https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship>
> 
> 
> -- 
> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
> 

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                   https://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

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#2166 — Re: The "RMS Open Letter" is based on lies, misrepresentations, and misinformation

Hello,

On 26.03.21 15:08, Ximin Luo wrote:
> Does anyone have a response to this?

I had no intention to reply to this email, but as you insist: in my 
opinion RedHat's statement captures things well enough( 
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-statement-about-richard-stallmans-return-free-software-foundation-board) 
and so do the many others (for example the one issued by the FSFE 
https://fsfe.org/news/2021/news-20210324-01.en.html)

You called it "witch hunt", others call it "protest". We could also call 
it an open conflict.

Conflicts are part of human interactions. People are in dialogue, 
they're negotiating values, cooperation, leadership.

Ulrike

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