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Groups > linux.debian.user > #221266 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-04-12 10:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2020-04-30 05:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 196 — 39 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-12 10:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 11:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-12 11:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-04-12 11:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2020-04-16 13:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 11:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-12 11:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 11:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-12 11:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2020-04-12 15:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-12 17:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-12 18:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 15:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 15:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-12 15:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-04-12 17:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Keith Christian <keith1christian@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 16:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 17:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-04-12 18:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-12 21:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 09:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 21:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 09:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-14 10:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 10:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-14 11:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 17:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-15 19:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 12:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-14 14:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-14 15:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-04-15 06:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-15 15:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-14 13:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-20 19:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-21 04:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-21 05:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-21 06:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-21 09:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-04-21 12:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-21 21:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 00:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-04-23 08:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-23 09:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-04-23 21:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-04-23 23:50 +0200
Contributing to Debian documentation [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-24 09:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-23 14:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-23 14:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 20:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 21:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Daniel Barclay <danielbarclay.oss@gmail.com> - 2020-04-29 18:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-29 18:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-29 21:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Daniel Barclay <danielbarclay.oss@gmail.com> - 2020-05-07 20:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-05-07 21:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-04-23 11:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 19:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-24 10:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-04-24 14:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-24 18:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-24 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-24 21:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-04-27 16:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Ihor Antonov <ngor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-21 06:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-04-21 08:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 11:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-04-12 14:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-12 14:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 15:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 15:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@zoho.com> - 2020-04-13 07:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-04-13 11:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 13:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse nito@dismail.de - 2020-04-12 15:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 17:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse nito@dismail.de - 2020-04-12 18:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-04-12 17:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-04-12 21:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-12 21:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> - 2020-04-12 21:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-04-13 03:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 06:40 +0200
Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 09:20 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-13 10:30 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 10:40 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 11:00 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-13 11:00 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 11:10 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-13 11:50 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 18:00 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-13 22:10 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 22:20 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 15:30 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 15:30 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 17:40 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-13 22:10 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 09:30 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 14:20 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-13 11:00 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 13:40 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] soyeomul@doraji.xyz (황병희) - 2020-04-14 05:10 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-14 10:20 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 15:10 +0200
Re: Moderation (not!) [was: Debian is testing Discourse] Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-13 15:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-04-13 23:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-14 11:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-04-14 15:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-04-14 16:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 17:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2020-04-14 17:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 18:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 19:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 20:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-14 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 20:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-15 08:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 10:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 17:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 17:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 17:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 09:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 10:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 10:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 14:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-04-13 14:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 17:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 18:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 18:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 18:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 19:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 19:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-13 20:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 21:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-04-13 21:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 21:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-13 22:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-14 10:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 10:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-14 13:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 21:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 21:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-04-13 22:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 22:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 22:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 22:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 09:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-14 13:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 21:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 22:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-13 22:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2020-04-13 23:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 02:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-04-14 02:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Daniel Barclay <danielbarclay.oss@gmail.com> - 2020-04-29 19:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-04-29 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-29 21:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-29 21:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-04-29 22:10 +0200
Postel's principle [was: Debian is testing Discourse] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-29 22:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-04-30 00:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-30 02:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-30 00:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Daniel Barclay <danielbarclay.oss@gmail.com> - 2020-05-07 20:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-05-07 22:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-13 18:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 19:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-13 19:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 02:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 02:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 03:40 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 04:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 12:00 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 14:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-14 15:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-04-14 16:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 20:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 20:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Glenn Holmer <glenn.holmer@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 16:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-04-23 01:50 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Daniel Barclay <danielbarclay.oss@gmail.com> - 2020-04-29 19:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-29 19:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Daniel Barclay <danielbarclay.oss@gmail.com> - 2020-04-29 21:10 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-30 07:20 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-04-29 21:30 +0200
Re: Debian is testing Discourse Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-04-30 05:10 +0200
Page 2 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 10 Next page →
| From | Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-12 18:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zUNbA-390-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221318 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
* On 2020 12 Apr 10:06 -0500, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 12 apr 20, 16:23:52, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 07:57:22AM -0600, Keith Christian wrote: > > On the other hand there are the silos, which like to have more end > > user control, which you can't have as much if everyone gets to > > see their content the way they like. > > I seriously doubt developers care about that. As far as I can tell most > of them are trying to provide just enough[2] customization options > without overwhelming less technical users. I've been hearing/reading this old saw about "less technical users" for well over two decades, and not just in Linux land but amateur radio as well, and it really touches a nerve of mine. How are less technical users ever going to progress into more technical users unless they have the opportunity to break something and thus learn? Striving to make *everything* at beginner level 0.1 just retards growth. That said, I do use Gnome. ;-) > As far as I can tell for Debian the main drivers are: > > 1. The hope that software like Discourse can improve the quality of > discussion as well as signal-to-noise ration, e.g. by providing an > alternative to "+1" messages. As the message archive is centrally managed, moderators can remove messages behind the scenes, for good or for ill. On a mailing list we all get the good with the bad. It's up to us which is which. Yeah it's messy and doesn't provide much of a safe space. Viva la liberty! > 2. Providing communication options that are preferred by the younger > generation, and that's just the natural course of life. More than likely this is driven by mobile device users where typing is a pain at best and typing long missives is better left for when one is at a real computer. As I use neomutt as an MUA and make heavy use of procmail filtering, trying to access my mail via my phone simply isn't feasible. Unlike most I do not have a Gmail account to access from my phone, etc. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819
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| From | Ihor Antonov <ihor@antonovs.family> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-12 21:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zUQ9s-5ar-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221335 |
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On Sunday, April 12, 2020 8:55:48 AM PDT Nate Bargmann wrote: > I've been hearing/reading this old saw about "less technical users" for > well over two decades, and not just in Linux land but amateur radio as > well, and it really touches a nerve of mine. How are less technical > users ever going to progress into more technical users unless they have > the opportunity to break something and thus learn? Striving to make > *everything* at beginner level 0.1 just retards growth. That said, I do > use Gnome. ;-) This touches my nerve too and I can't agree more. Both justifications for Discourse are wrong at their core: 1. The "lets attract more users with this new convenient tool" premise thin is like this. Imagine you are the owner of the Healthy Food Restaurant. And for some reason people don't visit your place very often, instead they go to fast food chain where they get fast, unhealthy coated with sugar food. And you think "So average person is impatient, addicted to sugar and is overweight, I need to put more sugar into my food, compromise on quality to increase speed of delivery to attract more sugar-addicted visitors!" It is only a good decision if you only care about making money. 2. The "it is easier to moderate" premise is IMHO is an attack on computing freedom and freedom of speech. Email is decentralized and replacing it with a centralized communication tool puts to much trust into the person/group who moderates it. Moderation + centralization is a slippery slope to dictatorship. Too much power in one's hands. I wouldn't trust myself to make the right call every time I need to "moderate" someone. And the whole idea of "moderation" is evil in its core. People are different, they have different thoughts, different opinions and often they are bad at communication. And learning how to communicate properly together as a community is freaking hard. And all that scares the shit out of some folks so they decide to "moderate" and use "centralized platform" so they can hide from real problems that we can't talk to each other. Do you really want more users that bad that you are willing to compromise on your own principles of freedom and technical excellence? > > As far as I can tell for Debian the main drivers are: > > > > 1. The hope that software like Discourse can improve the quality of > > discussion as well as signal-to-noise ration, e.g. by providing an > > alternative to "+1" messages. > > As the message archive is centrally managed, moderators can remove > messages behind the scenes, for good or for ill. On a mailing list we > all get the good with the bad. It's up to us which is which. Yeah it's > messy and doesn't provide much of a safe space. Viva la liberty! > > > 2. Providing communication options that are preferred by the younger > > generation, and that's just the natural course of life. > > More than likely this is driven by mobile device users where typing is a > pain at best and typing long missives is better left for when one is at > a real computer. > > As I use neomutt as an MUA and make heavy use of procmail filtering, > trying to access my mail via my phone simply isn't feasible. Unlike > most I do not have a Gmail account to access from my phone, etc. > > - Nate -- Ihor Antonov https://useplaintext.email
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-13 09:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zV1xT-3Jx-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221335 |
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On Du, 12 apr 20, 10:55:48, Nate Bargmann wrote: > > I've been hearing/reading this old saw about "less technical users" for > well over two decades, and not just in Linux land but amateur radio as > well, and it really touches a nerve of mine. How are less technical > users ever going to progress into more technical users unless they have > the opportunity to break something and thus learn? Striving to make > *everything* at beginner level 0.1 just retards growth. That said, I do > use Gnome. ;-) And I thought the point of debian-user was to provide support :) Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-13 21:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVd66-2jg-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221365 |
On Mon 13 Apr 2020 at 10:13:33 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 12 apr 20, 10:55:48, Nate Bargmann wrote: > > > > I've been hearing/reading this old saw about "less technical users" for > > well over two decades, and not just in Linux land but amateur radio as > > well, and it really touches a nerve of mine. How are less technical > > users ever going to progress into more technical users unless they have > > the opportunity to break something and thus learn? Striving to make > > *everything* at beginner level 0.1 just retards growth. That said, I do > > use Gnome. ;-) > > And I thought the point of debian-user was to provide support :) It is and it does. The well-meaning idea to integrate its functions into something it was never intended for is misplaced. That's all apart from the many years of culture and co-operation which are woven into -users fabric. If the proposer and supporters of the idea that debian-user would be be better off in Discourse were prepared to engage here, we might have a better understanding of the intention. I fear such engagement will be conspicuous by its absence. A similar, less constrictive, idea has been tried before http://shapado.debian.net/ and has failed miserably. -- Brian.
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 09:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVo1r-16K-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221441 |
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On Lu, 13 apr 20, 20:30:45, Brian wrote: > > If the proposer and supporters of the idea that debian-user would be > be better off in Discourse were prepared to engage here, we might have > a better understanding of the intention. I fear such engagement will > be conspicuous by its absence. It doesn't matter much as nobody is proposing to replace debian-user with Discourse. > A similar, less constrictive, idea has been tried before > > http://shapado.debian.net/ > > and has failed miserably. Sadly this yet another instance where I end up finding better answers about Debian on non-Debian platforms (like StackExchange), the other one being the Arch's wiki (significantly better than Debian's). For some reasons (missing SEO?) I don't see many hits from lists.debian.org in DuckDuckGo or Google. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 10:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVp7c-1J6-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221475 |
On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > It doesn't matter much as nobody is proposing to replace debian-user > with Discourse. > Nobody but Neil McGovern himself. https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/04/msg00074.html What about the mailing lists? This may or may not be a replacement for any particular list. Be specific! Ok... I think debian-user, debian-vote and possibly debian-project would be better off in Discourse. Obviously, as usual, confusion reigns supreme.
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 10:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVpqx-1Q2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221485 |
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On Ma, 14 apr 20, 08:19:50, Curt wrote: > On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > It doesn't matter much as nobody is proposing to replace debian-user > > with Discourse. > > Nobody but Neil McGovern himself. > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/04/msg00074.html > > What about the mailing lists? > This may or may not be a replacement for any particular list. > > Be specific! > Ok... I think debian-user, debian-vote and possibly debian-project > would be better off in Discourse. > > Obviously, as usual, confusion reigns supreme. To me "may or may not be a replacemnt" and "would be better of" are very far away from "I propose to replace X with Y". Maybe this is because English is not my first language. Or not. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 11:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVqmB-2pY-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221486 |
On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/04/msg00074.html >> What about the mailing lists? >> This may or may not be a replacement for any particular list. >> Be specific! >> Ok... I think debian-user, debian-vote and possibly debian-project >> would be better off in Discourse. >> Obviously, as usual, confusion reigns supreme. > > To me "may or may not be a replacemnt" and "would be better of" are > very far away from "I propose to replace X with Y". It is also rather distant from "Nobody is proposing replacing debian-user with Discourse," so I guess we're kind of even, though I think my interpretation is closer to the truth than your flat and unequivocal dismissal. I'm sorry, but it does follow from Neil's comments that replacing debian-user by Discourse is under consideration (as he *specified* debian-user as a *particular list* he believes would benefit from the shift). > Maybe this is because English is not my first language. Or not. > > Kind regards, > Andrei > http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVvvX-5HI-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221494 |
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On Ma, 14 apr 20, 09:49:16, Curt wrote: > On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > To me "may or may not be a replacemnt" and "would be better of" are > > very far away from "I propose to replace X with Y". > > It is also rather distant from "Nobody is proposing replacing > debian-user with Discourse," so I guess we're kind of even, though I > think my interpretation is closer to the truth than your flat and > unequivocal dismissal. Let's agree to disagree on this, see below on why. > I'm sorry, but it does follow from Neil's > comments that replacing debian-user by Discourse is under consideration > (as he *specified* debian-user as a *particular list* he believes would > benefit from the shift). Debian's lists are under the responsibility of the Listmaster Team[1] and so far they haven't expressed any opinion on this. Even if some other Debian Member would explicitly advance a proposal to change something regarding Debian's lists they are in charge to approve and implement (and no, they can't be forced to do this, because they are volunteers). What *may* happen: If (and only if) Discourse is popular enough it could be promoted to an official channel (moved from debian.net to debian.org), most likely operated by a completely different team than the Listmasters. As we have seen with shapado/ask.debian.net this might *never* happen. If (and only if) *some* mailing list is not useful anymore it could be disabled by the Listmaster Team (regardless of the popularity of some other official channel). With 3000+ subscribers I don't see this happening for debian-user anytime soon. If it's going to see any significant decline in use it will probably be correlated to general decline in e-mail use. I'm not aware of any list on lists.debian.org with as many subscribers as debian-user, only debian-devel comes close with 2500+ subscribers. Do note that some lists on lists.debian.org have less than 100 subscribers. [1] I was under the impression they are delegated as per Debian's Constitution, though I can't find any proof of that now. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-15 19:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVUb0-447-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221534 |
On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 18:15:16 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Ma, 14 apr 20, 09:49:16, Curt wrote: > > On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > To me "may or may not be a replacemnt" and "would be better of" are > > > very far away from "I propose to replace X with Y". > > > > It is also rather distant from "Nobody is proposing replacing > > debian-user with Discourse," so I guess we're kind of even, though I > > think my interpretation is closer to the truth than your flat and > > unequivocal dismissal. > > Let's agree to disagree on this, see below on why. > > > I'm sorry, but it does follow from Neil's > > comments that replacing debian-user by Discourse is under consideration > > (as he *specified* debian-user as a *particular list* he believes would > > benefit from the shift). > > Debian's lists are under the responsibility of the Listmaster Team[1] > and so far they haven't expressed any opinion on this. Even if some > other Debian Member would explicitly advance a proposal to change > something regarding Debian's lists they are in charge to approve and > implement (and no, they can't be forced to do this, because they are > volunteers). > > What *may* happen: > > If (and only if) Discourse is popular enough it could be promoted to an > official channel (moved from debian.net to debian.org), most likely > operated by a completely different team than the Listmasters. > > As we have seen with shapado/ask.debian.net this might *never* happen. > > If (and only if) *some* mailing list is not useful anymore it could be > disabled by the Listmaster Team (regardless of the popularity of some > other official channel). > > With 3000+ subscribers I don't see this happening for debian-user > anytime soon. If it's going to see any significant decline in use it > will probably be correlated to general decline in e-mail use. > > I'm not aware of any list on lists.debian.org with as many subscribers > as debian-user, only debian-devel comes close with 2500+ subscribers. > > Do note that some lists on lists.debian.org have less than 100 > subscribers. > > [1] I was under the impression they are delegated as per Debian's > Constitution, though I can't find any proof of that now. A nice exposition of some salient points. Perhaps this https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/04/msg00208.html will also help to clarify. On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 10:12:21AM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote: > Do we have to start by making it a mandatory switch? I don't feel consensus to > move to discourse will be impossible in the long term but it's normal for human > beings to resist change, especially during a time of otherwise great stress. > I think we're miles away from making it a mandatory switch! In fact, I explictly stated this in my initial email: > What about the mailing lists? > This may or may not be a replacement for any particular list. I suspect > there are some thet would benefit greatly from having Discourse be the > primary interaction, and other places where this would be less suitable. > > Be specific! > Ok... I think debian-user, debian-vote and possibly debian-project would > be better off in Discourse. I think debian-devel-announce should stay as > an email list (for now). However, I am not suddenly proposing that we shut > those lists down. The aim of this exercise is to see if Discourse would > work well for us. The whole point of this is to evaluate if Discourse would work for Debian at all, rather than if it should be the primary communication platform. I think that discussion is very different. > How do you feel about making discourse.debian.org, and making it a fully > supported tool, that's fully backed up, and available as an alternative for new > lists? He can have another discussion later about migrating existing lists. > Personally, I think that would be fantastic, and the idea behind this initial call for testing is to determine if I should be spending my time, and aiming for a discourse.debian.org instance, or if there is no appetite for that. Neil -- Brian.
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| From | Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 12:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVqwi-2tj-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221486 |
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On Apr 14, 2020, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Ma, 14 apr 20, 08:19:50, Curt wrote: > > On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > It doesn't matter much as nobody is proposing to replace debian-user > > > with Discourse. > > > > Nobody but Neil McGovern himself. > > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/04/msg00074.html > > > > What about the mailing lists? > > This may or may not be a replacement for any particular list. > > > > Be specific! > > Ok... I think debian-user, debian-vote and possibly debian-project > > would be better off in Discourse. > > > > Obviously, as usual, confusion reigns supreme. > > To me "may or may not be a replacemnt" and "would be better of" are very > far away from "I propose to replace X with Y". It's language that gives the other party room to think that it was their idea to replace X with Y the whole time. Have to use it every day at work with the suits. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 14:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVsHL-3Yg-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221495 |
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 05:56:39 AM Dan Purgert wrote: > On Apr 14, 2020, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > On Ma, 14 apr 20, 08:19:50, Curt wrote: > > > On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > It doesn't matter much as nobody is proposing to replace debian-user > > > > with Discourse. > > > > > > Nobody but Neil McGovern himself. I had to look up Neil McGovern to find out what "status" he has in the Debian organization. IIUC, he was the DPL (I guess I learned an acronym) in something like 2015, and he may now be the executive director of GNOME. Does he have some current status in Debian that would make his thoughts any more of indicative of the intentions of Debian than anyone else?
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 15:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVtXc-4E6-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221512 |
Hi. On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 08:14:22AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 05:56:39 AM Dan Purgert wrote: > > On Apr 14, 2020, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > > On Ma, 14 apr 20, 08:19:50, Curt wrote: > > > > On 2020-04-14, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > It doesn't matter much as nobody is proposing to replace debian-user > > > > > with Discourse. > > > > > > > > Nobody but Neil McGovern himself. > > Does he have some current status in Debian that would make his thoughts any > more of indicative of the intentions of Debian than anyone else? A Debian Developer, unless I misunderstood that: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/E1jNeEl-0007cd-R5@mail.einval.com Current DPL is Sam Hartman, and an election process for the next DPL is going on until Apr 18th. Reco
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-15 06:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVHGN-4Q2-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221512 |
Hello, On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 08:14:22AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > I had to look up Neil McGovern to find out what "status" he has in the Debian > organization. IIUC, he was the DPL (I guess I learned an acronym) in > something like 2015, and he may now be the executive director of GNOME. > > Does he have some current status in Debian that would make his thoughts any > more of indicative of the intentions of Debian than anyone else? There are some very strange assumptions being made in the above text about the decision-making processes of Debian. I have no idea why you would just imagine that huge sections of project infrastructure could be torn down and replaced based on the wishes of one person, even if you started off with having no idea about how it's actually done. Clearly in a project the size of Debian that sort of behaviour just wouldn't scale. Briefly and broadly: Debian makes decisions based on rough consensus, with some areas of responsibility delegated to teams. When a decision has to be made and consensus can't be found, sometimes things are referred to the Technical Committee, or sometimes they are put to a General Resolution (a vote). If you're interested in watching Debian make decisions then I think it would be best to subscribe to the debian-project mailing list. It sometimes is not very pretty - maybe the saying about watching sausages being made applies here. It does not matter if someone is a highly esteemed Debian developer and DPL emeritus; if they try to push through a change that is controversial and ignore dissent then someone will call a GR and then the proponent has 1 vote just like every other eligible Debian voter. Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-15 15:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVQAq-1P9-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221566 |
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:11:24 AM Andy Smith wrote: > Hello, > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 08:14:22AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > I had to look up Neil McGovern to find out what "status" he has in the > > Debian organization. IIUC, he was the DPL (I guess I learned an > > acronym) in something like 2015, and he may now be the executive > > director of GNOME. > > > > Does he have some current status in Debian that would make his thoughts > > any more of indicative of the intentions of Debian than anyone else? > > There are some very strange assumptions being made in the above text > about the decision-making processes of Debian. Interesting. Communication is often (always?) difficult. I often (sometimes?) try to look back what I wrote and try to see what I did wrong or could have done better. Sometimes the problem may be on the other side, the mindset of the reader (or maybe I didn't quote enough). Sometimes I feel the need to respond (publicly or privately) for the sake of my own self respect -- maybe that is the primary reason for this response. I don't see many (any?) assumptions in what I wrote, I see questions. I guess I was somewhat using a form of indirect response (though not in the coding indirection sense) -- the intent of my response is almost exactly what you stated in your last paragraph -- I was trying to say (or at least imply) that I didn't see any reason that just because some "ordinary" writer to this list proposes something doesn't make it an intention of the debian project. (If the writer was the current DPL or some other person with delegated authority for the project, it might be different, but I hope that, in that case, the writer would distinguish between things that were being "proposed" for discussion as opposed to (for example) plans for implementation.) > I have no idea why > you would just imagine that huge sections of project infrastructure > could be torn down and replaced based on the wishes of one person, > even if you started off with having no idea about how it's actually > done. Clearly in a project the size of Debian that sort of behaviour > just wouldn't scale. > > Briefly and broadly: > > Debian makes decisions based on rough consensus, with some areas of > responsibility delegated to teams. When a decision has to be made > and consensus can't be found, sometimes things are referred to the > Technical Committee, or sometimes they are put to a General > Resolution (a vote). I understand (and understood) all that -- I guess I'm disappointed that my response apparently indicated otherwise, although maybe that had to do with phrasing -- but I guess I think it had more to do with your mindset. > If you're interested in watching Debian make decisions then I think > it would be best to subscribe to the debian-project mailing list. It > sometimes is not very pretty - maybe the saying about watching > sausages being made applies here. I am subscribed, although maybe for not all that long -- I subscribed when I first saw this subject come up on debian-user. > It does not matter if someone is a highly esteemed Debian developer > and DPL emeritus; if they try to push through a change that is > controversial and ignore dissent then someone will call a GR and > then the proponent has 1 vote just like every other eligible Debian > voter. Exactly. Have a good day. regards, Randy Kramer
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| From | Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVsy6-3UO-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221486 |
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:46:39 +0300
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Andrei,
>To me "may or may not be a replacemnt" and "would be better of" are
>very far away from "I propose to replace X with Y"
The two former are clearly a precursor to the latter. Obviously,
viability has to be assessed, hence the hedging - 'may or may not'.
Of course, as things stand, the third (I propose, etc.) is not
inevitable.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
He signed up for just three years, it seemed a small amount
Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-14 13:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zVs54-3v1-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221475 |
On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 10:19:13 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Lu, 13 apr 20, 20:30:45, Brian wrote: > > > A similar, less constrictive, idea has been tried before > > > > http://shapado.debian.net/ > > > > and has failed miserably. > > Sadly this yet another instance where I end up finding better answers > about Debian on non-Debian platforms (like StackExchange), the other one > being the Arch's wiki (significantly better than Debian's). > > For some reasons (missing SEO?) I don't see many hits from > lists.debian.org in DuckDuckGo or Google. Fortunately, I could remember fragments of the original post on debian -project, so my search didn't take too long. https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2010/09/msg00123.html The shapado.debian.net domain eventually became ask.debian.net. See https://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2010/14/#ask > With the help of the Shapado Project, members of the > Debian project started a new user oriented service at > ask.debian.net. It lets users ask specific questions > and find answers, while also providing rating systems > and badges for users. It allows Debian Developers and > other contributors to easily stay in touch with the > community. My recollection is that, after an initial flurry of activity by DDs, the response to questions was left in the hands of a single person. -- Brian.
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| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-20 19:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zXIfn-6d8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221475 |
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:19:13 +0300 Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: ... > about Debian on non-Debian platforms (like StackExchange), the other one > being the Arch's wiki (significantly better than Debian's). Everyone loves the Arch wiki - I've long wondered why it's so much better than ours. Do they just have more community-minded users? Celejar
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-21 04:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zXQZj-34g-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221765 |
On Mon 20 Apr 2020 at 13:13:50 (-0400), Celejar wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:19:13 +0300
> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > about Debian on non-Debian platforms (like StackExchange), the other one
> > being the Arch's wiki (significantly better than Debian's).
>
> Everyone loves the Arch wiki - I've long wondered why it's so much
> better than ours. Do they just have more community-minded users?
It looks better curated, organised and structured. The latter is hardly
surprising when you read Debian's FAQ¹:
Q) Wouldn't the wiki be more useful if it was better organized?
A) Possibly, but a structured wiki is largely a contradiction in terms.
It's more important to give it good content.
Another weakness is what lies behind the pages:
Q) How do I keep track of changes?
A) By using two features accessible via the sidebar menu:
the link to the RecentChanges page (limited to a week for visitors,
90 days for logged-in users);
the Subscribe option, which requests e-mail notification when the page is modified.
With ~16½ thousand pages², and up to 90 days of time-ordered changes,
I would imagine it's difficult to keep track of what's up-to-date or
being worked on.
The Arch wiki pages have a discussion area where changes can be
debated and the page can be refined, as well as a History area
that I haven't seen (because I'm not registered on their system).
So they have different philosophies. Perhaps Debian puts more effort
into the packages themselves, the installer, and documentation like
the Reference Manual, Release Notes etc, whereas AIUI Arch relies
more on its wiki. And I think Debian has a much broader scope:
how many architectures does Arch support? Not even 32-bit PCs.
For all their faults, I think the two wikis complement each other
rather than trying to compete, and I use both, generally navigating
via search engines.
¹ The one at the bottom of the EditorGuide
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWiki/EditorGuide
² There are far fewer content pages really, but the TitleIndex
listing, which I counted, includes the name of all the people
who edit the wiki. It would be nice to have them separated.
Cheers,
David.
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| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-04-21 05:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <zXRsm-3tO-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #221772 |
On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:33:37 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > On Mon 20 Apr 2020 at 13:13:50 (-0400), Celejar wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:19:13 +0300 > > Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > ... > > > > > about Debian on non-Debian platforms (like StackExchange), the other one > > > being the Arch's wiki (significantly better than Debian's). > > > > Everyone loves the Arch wiki - I've long wondered why it's so much > > better than ours. Do they just have more community-minded users? > > It looks better curated, organised and structured. The latter is hardly > surprising when you read Debian's FAQ¹: > > Q) Wouldn't the wiki be more useful if it was better organized? > A) Possibly, but a structured wiki is largely a contradiction in terms. > It's more important to give it good content. In my experience, the content of the Arch wiki is ofter far superior to ours, not just the organization and structure. ... > So they have different philosophies. Perhaps Debian puts more effort > into the packages themselves, the installer, and documentation like > the Reference Manual, Release Notes etc, whereas AIUI Arch relies > more on its wiki. And I think Debian has a much broader scope: But the Debian documentation you mention doesn't cover a great deal of practical, real-world areas of system configuration, maintenance, and use, at least not in any useful, up-to-date way. The Arch wiki, in my experience, simply does a much better job at documenting this sort of stuff than any Debian documentation. Celejar
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