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Groups > linux.debian.user > #220496 > unrolled thread

HTML mail + PDF attachments

Started by"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
First post2020-03-26 05:00 +0100
Last post2020-03-27 16:00 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 73 — 21 participants

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  HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 05:00 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-03-26 06:00 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 07:40 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-26 10:10 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:40 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2020-03-26 13:20 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 13:40 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-26 06:10 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-26 09:30 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 10:20 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-26 10:50 +0100
          Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail +  PDF attachments) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-03-26 16:40 +0100
            Re: Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail  + PDF attachments) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-26 17:30 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 18:50 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-26 16:50 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 10:00 +0100
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-27 12:50 +0100
              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-03-27 14:50 +0100
                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 15:40 +0100
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-27 15:40 +0100
                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 17:20 +0100
                    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-27 17:50 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 18:10 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-27 18:40 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 21:20 +0100
                          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 10:10 +0100
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 10:40 +0100
                              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 11:10 +0100
                                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 14:20 +0100
                                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 15:00 +0100
                                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 15:40 +0100
                                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 16:10 +0100
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 10:40 +0100
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 10:40 +0100
                              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 10:50 +0100
                                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 14:10 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 20:40 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-28 05:20 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-28 09:40 +0100
                          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-30 20:40 +0200
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-03-31 01:30 +0200
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-03-31 12:00 +0200
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 09:50 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 09:50 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-30 13:30 +0200
                          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-30 20:40 +0200
                    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with ??urubelni????) "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-27 21:10 +0100
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-28 10:00 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Jason <electron@emypeople.net> - 2020-04-13 19:40 +0200
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-04-13 20:50 +0200
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 09:00 +0200
              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-04-14 09:30 +0200
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 10:20 +0200
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-14 22:30 +0200
                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-04-14 23:20 +0200
                    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 03:20 +0200
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2020-03-26 15:00 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 19:00 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-03-27 02:30 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2020-03-26 13:30 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-26 16:50 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-26 17:20 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 20:00 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 04:30 +0100
    [solved] Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-27 08:00 +0100
      Re: [solved] Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 16:00 +0100

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#220580 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-03-28 05:20 +0100
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zPb6V-72v-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220569
On Fri 27 Mar 2020 at 12:42:17 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:12:49AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 27 Mar 2020 at 17:35:19 (+0300), Reco wrote:
> > > I'm not that familiar with the languages to qualify Romanian as a Latin
> > > or a non-Latin language,
> > 
> > I think we can agree that the Romans spoke Latin!
> 
> Err... Romanian is not the language that was spoken in Rome.

I don't think anyone has said that it was. The Romans (in the sense
that I think we're also agreed on, ie those living in Rome a couple of
millennia ago) spoke Latin. As deloptes has pointed out, they didn't
speak the literary language, just as most English people don't speak
literary English. They spoke Vulgar Latin, and that outlived the
Empire, evolving and dividing into the Romance languages.

But it's strange how an aside can kill the actual discussion of
email headers.

> It is, however, considered a "Romance language", meaning it has Latin
> as one of its primary roots.
> 
> That said, I think the actual question was which character set it
> requires.

The Romanian language only came up because Andrei used it to write an
example of a filename. AIUI what's important in deciding whether to
encode it is the type of Latin, ie Latin-1 vs anything else. Pointing
out that it's been encoded here in Unicode is obvious (it's prefixed
by utf-8), but AFAICT it could have been encoded in Latin-10 just as
well. (Andrei would have to adjudicate on Latin-10's suitability for
the 1st and 10th letters, which have comma below. I think Latin-2
has the cedilla form, and Andrei's utf-8 version avoided that.)

(BTW I'm not sure about Reco's use of \uc899. Does \u mean that
c899 is in utf-8, or should it be followed by a Unicode codepoint,
as in U+c899? If the latter, then \uc899 is way off my charts.)

However, the actual problem that Russell introduced was how a
character set—any character set—should be encoded in the email header
parameter's value. And the RFC answer is "not in Base64", which is for
unstructured fields, as illustrated by the header of my previous post.
Mutt, as expected, writes conformant values but can be instructed to
decode particular non-conformant ones.

> According to
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_alphabet#Digital_typography>,
> it originally used ISO 8859-2.

… aka Latin-2. Not being Romanian, I can't comment on the relative
popularity of that and Latin-10 (ISO 8859-16) or whether the latter
was still-born. And…

> Of course, it would probably use UTF-8
> on most modern systems.

Yes, that also seems more up-to-date and expressive, with support for
distinguishing obscure (to me) variants like cedilla vs comma below.

Cheers,
David.

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#220581 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-03-28 09:40 +0100
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zPfax-10i-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220580

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Vi, 27 mar 20, 23:15:12, David Wright wrote:
> 
> However, the actual problem that Russell introduced was how a
> character set—any character set—should be encoded in the email header
> parameter's value. And the RFC answer is "not in Base64", which is for
> unstructured fields, as illustrated by the header of my previous post.
> Mutt, as expected, writes conformant values but can be instructed to
> decode particular non-conformant ones.

So any test involving mutt as source is irrelevant.
 
> > According to
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_alphabet#Digital_typography>,
> > it originally used ISO 8859-2.
> 
> … aka Latin-2. Not being Romanian, I can't comment on the relative
> popularity of that and Latin-10 (ISO 8859-16) or whether the latter
> was still-born. And…
> 
> > Of course, it would probably use UTF-8
> > on most modern systems.
> 
> Yes, that also seems more up-to-date and expressive, with support for
> distinguishing obscure (to me) variants like cedilla vs comma below.

Right.

<rant>
Apparently Microsoft (and Adobe?) had to come up with the support for 
Romanian by themselves, because the responsible Romanian entities didn't 
bother at the time. Unfortunately they got it wrong (not blaming them, 
just stating a fact).

The wrong characters are still in use now (even though correct support 
was included in Windows 7 - for XP there was a language pack), also 
because many font creators got confused and didn't implement support 
correctly (missing characters, characters in wrong positions, etc).

This (and the fact that many Romanians don't even bother to use any
diacritics at all) makes searching for exact strings... challenging.
</rant>

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#220705 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-03-30 20:40 +0200
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zQ7ui-1Va-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220581
On Sat 28 Mar 2020 at 10:30:07 (+0200), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 27 mar 20, 23:15:12, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > However, the actual problem that Russell introduced was how a
> > character set—any character set—should be encoded in the email header
> > parameter's value. And the RFC answer is "not in Base64", which is for
> > unstructured fields, as illustrated by the header of my previous post.
> > Mutt, as expected, writes conformant values but can be instructed to
> > decode particular non-conformant ones.
> 
> So any test involving mutt as source is irrelevant.

Well, I'm not sure who's testing what. AIUI Russell is happy to switch
to Thunderbird for those attachments from the cattle raisers association.
Richard Hector was unable to save the empty Romanian attachment, so
I posted a non-empty version to see whether it was the emptiness or
the name that was the problem. No reply.

> > > According to
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_alphabet#Digital_typography>,
> > > it originally used ISO 8859-2.
> > 
> > … aka Latin-2. Not being Romanian, I can't comment on the relative
> > popularity of that and Latin-10 (ISO 8859-16) or whether the latter
> > was still-born. And…
> > 
> > > Of course, it would probably use UTF-8
> > > on most modern systems.
> > 
> > Yes, that also seems more up-to-date and expressive, with support for
> > distinguishing obscure (to me) variants like cedilla vs comma below.
> 
> Right.
> 
> <rant>
> Apparently Microsoft (and Adobe?) had to come up with the support for 
> Romanian by themselves, because the responsible Romanian entities didn't 
> bother at the time. Unfortunately they got it wrong (not blaming them, 
> just stating a fact).
> 
> The wrong characters are still in use now (even though correct support 
> was included in Windows 7 - for XP there was a language pack), also 
> because many font creators got confused and didn't implement support 
> correctly (missing characters, characters in wrong positions, etc).
> 
> This (and the fact that many Romanians don't even bother to use any
> diacritics at all) makes searching for exact strings... challenging.
> </rant>

Cheers,
David.

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#220722 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromThe Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm>
Date2020-03-31 01:30 +0200
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zQc0V-4KN-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220705

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2020-03-30 at 14:32, David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 28 Mar 2020 at 10:30:07 (+0200), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> 
>> On Vi, 27 mar 20, 23:15:12, David Wright wrote:
>> 
>>> However, the actual problem that Russell introduced was how a 
>>> character set—any character set—should be encoded in the email
>>> header parameter's value. And the RFC answer is "not in Base64",
>>> which is for unstructured fields, as illustrated by the header of
>>> my previous post. Mutt, as expected, writes conformant values but
>>> can be instructed to decode particular non-conformant ones.
>> 
>> So any test involving mutt as source is irrelevant.
> 
> Well, I'm not sure who's testing what. AIUI Russell is happy to
> switch to Thunderbird for those attachments from the cattle raisers
> association. Richard Hector was unable to save the empty Romanian
> attachment, so I posted a non-empty version to see whether it was the
> emptiness or the name that was the problem. No reply.

FWIW, as another Thunderbird user, I likewise couldn't save the empty
attachment (it didn't give an error, when I was using "save as", but
the file never showed up in the filesystem), but saving the non-empty
one by the exact same method produced a file just fine.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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#220729 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromRichard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz>
Date2020-03-31 12:00 +0200
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zQlQC-2gO-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220705
On 31/03/20 7:32 am, David Wright wrote:
> Richard Hector was unable to save the empty Romanian attachment, so
> I posted a non-empty version to see whether it was the emptiness or
> the name that was the problem. No reply.

Apologies; that (or at least the intent of it) slipped past me. I can
save that one.

Cheers,

Richard

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#220582 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromJoe <joe@jretrading.com>
Date2020-03-28 09:50 +0100
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zPfkd-13Q-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220580
On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:41:01 +0100
<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:15:12PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> 
> > [Romans] They spoke Vulgar Latin, and that outlived the
> > Empire, evolving and dividing into the Romance languages.
> > 
> > But it's strange how an aside can kill the actual discussion of
> > email headers.  
> 
> :-)
> 
> Yet in some way the topics are strangely intertwined. Vulgar
> Latin and rfc822. Big, Bad Empires (in a slow process of decay)
> and the power of the network effect. And so on.
> 
> (OK, OK, I'll shut up now ;-)
> 
> Anyway, an interesting discussion. Thanks, y'all.
> 

A good job it didn't attract any of the list topic enforcers, or perhaps
they've all moved to a moderated web forum...

-- 
Joe

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#220583 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2020-03-28 09:50 +0100
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zPfkd-13Q-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220580

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:15:12PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

> [Romans] They spoke Vulgar Latin, and that outlived the
> Empire, evolving and dividing into the Romance languages.
> 
> But it's strange how an aside can kill the actual discussion of
> email headers.

:-)

Yet in some way the topics are strangely intertwined. Vulgar
Latin and rfc822. Big, Bad Empires (in a slow process of decay)
and the power of the network effect. And so on.

(OK, OK, I'll shut up now ;-)

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Thanks, y'all.

Cheers
-- t

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#220695 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2020-03-30 13:30 +0200
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zQ0M9-6gU-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220580
On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:15:12PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> (BTW I'm not sure about Reco's use of \uc899. Does \u mean that
> c899 is in utf-8, or should it be followed by a Unicode codepoint,
> as in U+c899? If the latter, then \uc899 is way off my charts.)

It's a notation used in some programming tools/environments to denote
a Unicode code point.

E.g. bash's printf and $'...' accept \unnnn or \Unnnnnnnn to denote
Unicode code points using either 4 or 8 hex digits.

$ printf '\u00f1\n'
ñ

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#220706 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-03-30 20:40 +0200
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță)
Message-ID<zQ7ui-1Va-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220695
On Mon 30 Mar 2020 at 07:26:06 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 11:15:12PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > (BTW I'm not sure about Reco's use of \uc899. Does \u mean that
> > c899 is in utf-8, or should it be followed by a Unicode codepoint,
> > as in U+c899? If the latter, then \uc899 is way off my charts.)
> 
> It's a notation used in some programming tools/environments to denote
> a Unicode code point.
> 
> E.g. bash's printf and $'...' accept \unnnn or \Unnnnnnnn to denote
> Unicode code points using either 4 or 8 hex digits.
> 
> $ printf '\u00f1\n'
> ñ

Of course! With well over a decade of using Unicode natively, I had
forgotten that people would want to do that. And refreshing bash's
prompt escape syntax last December (\D{}, \u etc) completely wiped
it from my mind.

So one has to be careful not to translate
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*=utf-8''%C8%99urubelni%C8%9B%C4%83_empty%2Etxt
into Unicode codepoints like \uc899 because it's utf-8, not utf-32.

Cheers,
David.

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#220575 — Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with ??urubelni????)

From"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date2020-03-27 21:10 +0100
SubjectRe: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with ??urubelni????)
Message-ID<zP3sJ-2ft-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220567
>On Fri 27 Mar 2020 at 17:35:19 (+0300), Reco wrote:
>I think we can agree that the Romans spoke Latin!

Actually, Latin was the official, legal language of Rome.  The
previous conquests of Alexander the Great established the Koine
dialect of Greek as the "lingua franca" of the Ancient World.  Koine
(meaning "common") was the language of commerce and trade.  Because
both Latin and Koine were in constant use, there are many "exact
equivalents" between Latin and Koine words and phrases.

I expect that, for Romans in general, fluency in Koine may have been
more common that fluency in Latin.

RLH

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#220557

FromDan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
Message-ID<zOWhz-66d-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220546

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mar 27, 2020, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 26 mar 20, 18:41:10, Reco wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > > 
> > > I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> > > expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> > > 
> > >    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
> > 
> > Read muttrc(5), insert "rfc2047_parameters=true" in your .muttrc.
> 
> Nice one, added. Wondering why it's not the default though...

Hmm, I must have an old version of Mutt (not surprising ...); I needed
to use "rfc2047_parameters=yes". 



-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#220558

FromDan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
Message-ID<zOWhA-66d-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220557

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On Mar 27, 2020, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On Mar 27, 2020, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Jo, 26 mar 20, 18:41:10, Reco wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> > > > expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> > > > 
> > > >    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
> > > 
> > > Read muttrc(5), insert "rfc2047_parameters=true" in your .muttrc.
> > 
> > Nice one, added. Wondering why it's not the default though...
> 
> Hmm, I must have an old version of Mutt (not surprising ...); I needed
> to use "rfc2047_parameters=yes". 

Scratch that, I tacked on 'set' to the beginning, which requires the
'yes/no' syntax.



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|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#220584

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-03-28 10:00 +0100
Message-ID<zPftT-178-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220546

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On Vi, 27 mar 20, 10:51:46, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 26 mar 20, 18:41:10, Reco wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > > 
> > > I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> > > expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> > > 
> > >    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
> > 
> > Read muttrc(5), insert "rfc2047_parameters=true" in your .muttrc.
> 
> Nice one, added. Wondering why it's not the default though...

Filled as #955198 (wishlist).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#221430

FromJason <electron@emypeople.net>
Date2020-04-13 19:40 +0200
Message-ID<zVbdT-19m-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#220506
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris composed:

> All things considered, I am thinking that the best solution is to set
> up a POP account on another domain and configure Thunderbird to fetch
> mail from that location.  Then all I need to do in mutt is to forward
> troublesome messages to that account.
> 

As another option, both getmail and thunderbird can be configured to 
leave messages on the server and then delete them a certain number of 
days after retrieval. Using that feature in getmail, you could access 
the same messages in thunderbird, and tell thunderbird to not delete 
messages.

As for PDF attachments, I use getmail to deliver to maildrop, which then 
runs a copy of the email through ripmime to automatically save the 
attachments to a directory.

-- 
Jason

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#221437

From"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date2020-04-13 20:50 +0200
Message-ID<zVcjD-1MJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221430
On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 12:01:47PM -0500, Jason wrote:
>
>As another option, both getmail and thunderbird can be configured to
>leave messages on the server and then delete them a certain number of
>days after retrieval. Using that feature in getmail, you could access
>the same messages in thunderbird, and tell thunderbird to not delete
>messages.

Thanks for jogging my memory.  It has been so long since I configured
getmail that I forgot that getmail can serve unrelated accounts and
deliver to multiple locations, each with its own structure (mbox or
maildir).

I suppose I need to reduce the limit of the number of messages
downloaded in a sesson, so as to enable more frequent checks for
incoming messages.  At present getmail runs every three minutes.
But I do not have a feel for the load imposed on a mail server by
frequent checks.  Would an ISP frown on a check every minute?


>As for PDF attachments, I use getmail to deliver to maildrop, which
>then runs a copy of the email through ripmime to automatically save
>the attachments to a directory.

And I keep forgetting about maildrop, which I have used in the past.

RLH

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#221474

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-04-14 09:00 +0200
Message-ID<zVnI5-KH-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221437

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On Lu, 13 apr 20, 18:43:53, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 12:01:47PM -0500, Jason wrote:
> > 
> > As another option, both getmail and thunderbird can be configured to
> > leave messages on the server and then delete them a certain number of
> > days after retrieval. Using that feature in getmail, you could access
> > the same messages in thunderbird, and tell thunderbird to not delete
> > messages.
> 
> Thanks for jogging my memory.  It has been so long since I configured
> getmail that I forgot that getmail can serve unrelated accounts and
> deliver to multiple locations, each with its own structure (mbox or
> maildir).
> 
> I suppose I need to reduce the limit of the number of messages
> downloaded in a sesson, so as to enable more frequent checks for
> incoming messages.  

What benefit would this bring?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#221476

From"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date2020-04-14 09:30 +0200
Message-ID<zVob8-1a0-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221474
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 09:51:38AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>> I suppose I need to reduce the limit of the number of messages
>> downloaded in a sesson, so as to enable more frequent checks for
>> incoming messages.
>
>What benefit would this bring?

Perhaps once a month or once every other month, I am on the telephone
with a party who is sending me an email, typically with an attachment.
And typically I have been "on hold" on the phone for a half hour to
reach that individual.  So the other guy says, "I just sent the
message; tell me when you receive it."  And I must reply, "My system
checks for new messages only every three minutes."

And then three minutes pass as we discuss the weather, and still the
message has not arrived.  So the other guy sends the message again,
and we wait another three minutes, and sometimes longer.  For some
reason, messages from one of the larger domain registration outfits
routinely take twelve hours to reach me; that was the case two or
three times within the past few months.

So in such instances, it would be nice to check for new mail once a
minute.  Even better would be a check made immediately upon demand; I
know how to do that, and I have done it before.  But most of the time,
a check every half hour would be adequate.

RLH

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#221482

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-04-14 10:20 +0200
Message-ID<zVoXv-1FM-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221476

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On Ma, 14 apr 20, 07:25:28, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 09:51:38AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > I suppose I need to reduce the limit of the number of messages
> > > downloaded in a sesson, so as to enable more frequent checks for
> > > incoming messages.
> > 
> > What benefit would this bring?
> 
> Perhaps once a month or once every other month, I am on the telephone
> with a party who is sending me an email, typically with an attachment.
> And typically I have been "on hold" on the phone for a half hour to
> reach that individual.  So the other guy says, "I just sent the
> message; tell me when you receive it."  And I must reply, "My system
> checks for new messages only every three minutes."
 
Ah, the classic (ab)use of e-mail as instant messaging and/or file 
transfer.

> And then three minutes pass as we discuss the weather, and still the
> message has not arrived.  So the other guy sends the message again,
> and we wait another three minutes, and sometimes longer.  For some
> reason, messages from one of the larger domain registration outfits
> routinely take twelve hours to reach me; that was the case two or
> three times within the past few months.

Increasing check frequency wouldn't help with this. It could be some 
anti-spam measure (greylisting). Maybe your provider allows some 
mechanism to whitelist a domain and/or e-mail address, likely via the 
web interface (if there is one).

> So in such instances, it would be nice to check for new mail once a
> minute.  Even better would be a check made immediately upon demand; I
> know how to do that, and I have done it before.  But most of the time,
> a check every half hour would be adequate.

For an instant-like experience with e-mail you need push, not pull (e.g. 
like the IMAP IDLE extension). You would have to replace getmail with 
something like offlineimap or interimap (not familiar with either, so 
can't tell if they would actually work for that and/or fit your needs).

If you want to explore this path I suggest you start a new thread and 
explain what such a system would need to achieve (e.g. full offline copy 
of all messages, sorting/filtering), *not how*, and if there are any 
objective or subjective constraints (e.g. e-mail provider that can't be 
changed, e-mail client you won't part with, etc.)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#221555

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-04-14 22:30 +0200
Message-ID<zVAlX-bB-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221476
On Tue 14 Apr 2020 at 07:25:28 (+0000), Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 09:51:38AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > I suppose I need to reduce the limit of the number of messages
> > > downloaded in a sesson, so as to enable more frequent checks for
> > > incoming messages.
> > 
> > What benefit would this bring?
> 
> Perhaps once a month or once every other month, I am on the telephone
> with a party who is sending me an email, typically with an attachment.
> And typically I have been "on hold" on the phone for a half hour to
> reach that individual.  So the other guy says, "I just sent the
> message; tell me when you receive it."  And I must reply, "My system
> checks for new messages only every three minutes."
> 
> And then three minutes pass as we discuss the weather, and still the
> message has not arrived.  So the other guy sends the message again,
> and we wait another three minutes, and sometimes longer.  For some
> reason, messages from one of the larger domain registration outfits
> routinely take twelve hours to reach me; that was the case two or
> three times within the past few months.
> 
> So in such instances, it would be nice to check for new mail once a
> minute.  Even better would be a check made immediately upon demand; I
> know how to do that, and I have done it before.  But most of the time,
> a check every half hour would be adequate.

Have you examined the timestamps in the email header of such emails in
order to see where the holdup is occurring. It may or may not be in
the last hop.

Cheers,
David.

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#221558

From"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date2020-04-14 23:20 +0200
Message-ID<zVB8m-Nc-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221555
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 03:19:57PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>Have you examined the timestamps in the email header of such emails in
>order to see where the holdup is occurring. It may or may not be in
>the last hop.

You embarrass me, David!  It did not occur to me that the header would
contain time stamps, so I did not examine them.  The messages already
are deleted.

RLH

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