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Groups > linux.debian.user > #221123 > unrolled thread

geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps

Started byAnil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm>
First post2020-04-09 15:00 +0200
Last post2020-04-10 20:00 +0200
Articles 18 on this page of 118 — 23 participants

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  geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-09 15:00 +0200
    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-09 16:50 +0200
    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-09 16:50 +0200
      Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:50 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-11 17:00 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 17:40 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-11 18:00 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 18:10 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 15:50 +0200
                  Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 23:10 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-11 18:00 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-04-11 20:50 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-12 01:20 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-04-12 02:40 +0200
                  Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 09:20 +0200
                    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-12 20:20 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 17:00 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 17:50 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2020-04-11 18:00 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 18:20 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-11 22:10 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 22:20 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-04-12 02:30 +0200
                  Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-12 10:10 +0200
                    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 10:20 +0200
                    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 10:50 +0200
                      Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-12 11:50 +0200
                        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-12 16:20 +0200
                          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-12 17:00 +0200
                      Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 12:20 +0200
                        Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-12 12:30 +0200
                          Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 12:40 +0200
                            Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-12 13:10 +0200
                              Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 15:40 +0200
                              Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 01:50 +0200
                                Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-13 07:50 +0200
                                  Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 10:20 +0200
                                    Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-13 12:00 +0200
                                      Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 12:10 +0200
                                      Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 13:20 +0200
                                        Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-13 15:30 +0200
                                          Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 17:20 +0200
                                            Re: DOH John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 17:40 +0200
                                              Re: DOH "Liam O'Toole" <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 22:10 +0200
                                                Re: DOH Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-14 22:50 +0200
                                                  Re: DOH Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 23:30 +0200
                                                    Re: DOH Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 00:00 +0200
                                                    Re: DOH John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-15 01:10 +0200
                                                      Re: DOH Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 01:30 +0200
                                                    Re: DOH Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-15 09:00 +0200
                                    Re: DOH John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 17:30 +0200
                                  Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 00:50 +0200
                                    Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-14 08:20 +0200
                                      Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 13:10 +0200
                                        Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) nito@dismail.de - 2020-04-14 13:50 +0200
                                          Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-04-14 14:10 +0200
                                        Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-14 15:30 +0200
                                          Re: DOH John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 17:40 +0200
                                  Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 05:40 +0200
                                    Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 11:50 +0200
                                      Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 19:00 +0200
                                        Re: DOH John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-14 19:20 +0200
                                          Re: DOH Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 00:00 +0200
                                Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-13 09:20 +0200
                                  Re: DOH John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-13 17:20 +0200
                                  Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 01:10 +0200
                                    Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2020-04-14 10:10 +0200
                                    Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-04-14 13:40 +0200
                                      Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 16:40 +0200
                                      Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-15 01:20 +0200
                                        Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-04-15 13:50 +0200
                                          Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-15 16:50 +0200
                                          Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-17 05:30 +0200
                            Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-04-12 13:40 +0200
                              Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 15:40 +0200
                                Re: DOH Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-12 15:50 +0200
                                Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-04-12 18:10 +0200
                          Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2020-04-12 14:40 +0200
                            Re: DOH (was: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-12 15:50 +0200
                        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-12 15:00 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-04-11 23:40 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-12 10:00 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-04-13 16:00 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-04-13 16:40 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-04-13 16:40 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-11 17:10 +0200
    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-09 18:20 +0200
      Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps "Anil Felipe Duggirala" <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-10 15:30 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-10 15:50 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-10 16:30 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:40 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:30 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-10 16:30 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-10 17:00 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-10 17:20 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-10 17:40 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-10 17:50 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-10 18:10 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-10 20:00 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-10 18:00 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-10 18:20 +0200
                  Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-04-10 18:40 +0200
                  Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-10 18:40 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:40 +0200
                  Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps tomas@tuxteam.de - 2020-04-11 16:50 +0200
              Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:40 +0200
                Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 17:30 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-10 17:20 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:30 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-04-11 17:20 +0200
            Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-04-13 13:40 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-10 17:20 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2020-04-10 20:00 +0200
        Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-11 09:40 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-11 10:30 +0200
          Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> - 2020-04-11 16:50 +0200
    Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-04-10 19:00 +0200
      Re: geolocation services disabled and Gnome maps Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-04-10 20:00 +0200

Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]


#221164

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2020-04-10 18:20 +0200
Message-ID<zU4xP-14B-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221162
On 2020-04-10, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
>> So you're saying that Gnome Maps *uses* the geolocation library even in
>> the case of a user who has explicitly turned that "feature" off in his
>> privacy settings, in blatant disregard of those settings?
>> That is really an egregious bug, then, and should be reported.

> Perhaps just a misunderstanding, and Gnome simply calls
> "geolocation" to call into whatever API thingmajig your
> smartphone offers to query the GPS+plus+cell-tower position
> determination Rube Goldbergism? Falling back to Ip based
> guessing when that fails (or is disallowed)?
>
> I just don't know.

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/privacy-location.html.en

 Geolocation, or location services, uses cell tower positioning, GPS, and
 nearby Wi-Fi access points to determine your current location for use in
 setting your timezone and by applications such as Maps. When enabled, it
 is possible for your location to be shared over the network with a great
 deal of precision.

 Turn off the geolocation features of your desktop
 Open the Activities overview and start typing Privacy.

 Click on Privacy to open the panel.

 Switch the Location Services switch to off.

 To re-enable this feature, set the Location Services switch to on.

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#221167

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2020-04-10 18:40 +0200
Message-ID<zU4Rc-1bv-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221164

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 04:11:16PM -0000, Curt wrote:
> On 2020-04-10, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:

[...]

> > Perhaps just a misunderstanding [...]
> > I just don't know.
> 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/privacy-location.html.en
> 
>  Geolocation, or location services, uses cell tower positioning, GPS, and
>  nearby Wi-Fi access points to determine your current location for use in
>  setting your timezone and by applications such as Maps. When enabled, it
>  is possible for your location to be shared over the network with a great
>  deal of precision.
> 
>  Turn off the geolocation features of your desktop
>  Open the Activities overview and start typing Privacy.
> 
>  Click on Privacy to open the panel.
> 
>  Switch the Location Services switch to off.
> 
>  To re-enable this feature, set the Location Services switch to on.

Ah, thanks for the enlightenment: so it seems, in Gnome terms,
"geolocation" is GPS+cell-tower+WiFi (from Google's database?).

GeoIP is the fallback and not called "geolocation", it seems.

Cheers
-- t

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#221168

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-04-10 18:40 +0200
Message-ID<zU4Rc-1bv-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221164
On Fri 10 Apr 2020 at 16:11:16 (-0000), Curt wrote:
> On 2020-04-10, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> >
> >> So you're saying that Gnome Maps *uses* the geolocation library even in
> >> the case of a user who has explicitly turned that "feature" off in his
> >> privacy settings, in blatant disregard of those settings?
> >> That is really an egregious bug, then, and should be reported.
> 
> > Perhaps just a misunderstanding, and Gnome simply calls
> > "geolocation" to call into whatever API thingmajig your
> > smartphone offers to query the GPS+plus+cell-tower position
> > determination Rube Goldbergism? Falling back to Ip based
> > guessing when that fails (or is disallowed)?
> >
> > I just don't know.
> 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/privacy-location.html.en
> 
>  Geolocation, or location services, uses cell tower positioning, GPS, and
>  nearby Wi-Fi access points to determine your current location for use in
>  setting your timezone and by applications such as Maps. When enabled, it
>  is possible for your location to be shared over the network with a great
>  deal of precision.
> 
>  Turn off the geolocation features of your desktop
>  Open the Activities overview and start typing Privacy.
> 
>  Click on Privacy to open the panel.
> 
>  Switch the Location Services switch to off.
> 
>  To re-enable this feature, set the Location Services switch to on.

Having all those other methods (cells/GPS/wifi) available is why I'm
asking for information, rather than beliefs, from the OP. Whether they
have a privacy leak would be revealed. There's nothing to prevent
anybody from "determining" a machine's location from its IP address
when it's used to post to a public forum. Even "Columbia" seemed to
surprise the OP, yet their timezone is enough to suggest western
South America if not central North America (currently DST).

Cheers,
David.

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#221197

FromAnil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm>
Date2020-04-11 16:40 +0200
Message-ID<zUpsC-5uJ-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221162
On Fri, 2020-04-10 at 17:51 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 03:35:01PM -0000, Curt wrote:
> > On 2020-04-10, Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 03:14:33PM -0000, Curt wrote:
> > > > On 2020-04-10, Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > > > > The software behaviour does not depend on one's beliefs.
> > > > 
> > > > It does and can quite often depend on *user configuration*,
> > > > though, and the OP I
> > > > believe has informed us he has *turned off* geolocation
> > > > services.
> > > 
> > > And GNOME Maps has this neat library as a dependency that can use
> > > geolocation regardless of the said setting.
> > 
> > So you're saying that Gnome Maps *uses* the geolocation library
> > even in
> > the case of a user who has explicitly turned that "feature" off in
> > his
> > privacy settings, in blatant disregard of those settings?
> > 
> > That is really an egregious bug, then, and should be reported. 
> 
> Perhaps just a misunderstanding, and Gnome simply calls
> "geolocation" to call into whatever API thingmajig your
> smartphone offers to query the GPS+plus+cell-tower position
> determination Rube Goldbergism? Falling back to Ip based
> guessing when that fails (or is disallowed)?
> 
> I just don't know.
> 
> Cheers
> -- tomás

Just fyi. I am on a machine with a newly installed Debian. No settings
have been altered (including Location Services :Off). And I am
connected to my apartments wifi and have not connected to any other
network.

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#221200

Fromtomas@tuxteam.de
Date2020-04-11 16:50 +0200
Message-ID<zUpCh-5ym-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221197

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 09:37:34AM -0500, Anil F Duggirala wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-04-10 at 17:51 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > Perhaps just a misunderstanding, and Gnome simply calls
> > "geolocation" [...]
> > I just don't know.

> Just fyi. I am on a machine with a newly installed Debian. No settings
> have been altered (including Location Services :Off). And I am
> connected to my apartments wifi and have not connected to any other
> network.

I believe you :)

I wasn't implying anything -- I was just musing about how complexity
tends to kill understandability. It's somewhat disheartening how we
do and promote free software to have users in control, and then, by
just piling gadget upon gadget we make that goal more difficult.

I have no idea on how to solve that.

Cheers
-- tomás

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#221198

FromAnil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm>
Date2020-04-11 16:40 +0200
Message-ID<zUpsC-5uJ-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221160
On Fri, 2020-04-10 at 15:35 +0000, Curt wrote:
> On 2020-04-10, Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 03:14:33PM -0000, Curt wrote:
> > > On 2020-04-10, Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > > > The software behaviour does not depend on one's beliefs.
> > > 
> > > It does and can quite often depend on *user configuration*,
> > > though, and the OP I
> > > believe has informed us he has *turned off* geolocation services.
> > 
> > And GNOME Maps has this neat library as a dependency that can use
> > geolocation regardless of the said setting.
> 
> So you're saying that Gnome Maps *uses* the geolocation library even
> in
> the case of a user who has explicitly turned that "feature" off in
> his
> privacy settings, in blatant disregard of those settings?
> 
> That is really an egregious bug, then, and should be reported. 
> 

This is precisely my issue. I set Location Services to Off in Gnome
settings. And then a Gnome app, like Gnome Maps, provides me with my
location. If you can advise me on how to report this to the Gnome
people or to the relevant Debian team, I would gladly do so.
thank you,

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#221207

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2020-04-11 17:30 +0200
Message-ID<zUqeZ-610-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221198
On 2020-04-11, Anil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> This is precisely my issue. I set Location Services to Off in Gnome
> settings. And then a Gnome app, like Gnome Maps, provides me with my
> location. If you can advise me on how to report this to the Gnome

At what level of granularity (country/city/neighborhood/street)? 

I don't know how precise a geolocation by IP address could be where
you're residing in Columbia, given the ISP you use, and maybe other
factors upon which that precision depends.

Sorry for the unwarranted assumption this was the same machine as your
Night Light machine!

> people or to the relevant Debian team, I would gladly do so.
> thank you,
>
>


-- 

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#221159

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2020-04-10 17:20 +0200
Message-ID<zU3BM-uX-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221155
On 2020-04-10, Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
>
> The software behaviour does not depend on one's beliefs.

It does and can quite often depend on *user configuration*, though, and the OP I
believe has informed us he has *turned off* geolocation services.

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/privacy-location.html.en


-- 

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#221195

FromAnil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm>
Date2020-04-11 16:30 +0200
Message-ID<zUpiW-5qB-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221155
On Fri, 2020-04-10 at 17:51 +0300, Reco wrote:
> 	Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 08:24:41AM -0500, Anil Felipe Duggirala
> wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020, at 11:16 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> > > It's just looking up your IP.  The method isn't reliable (it
> > > usually
> > > puts me on the other side of the state) but it works more often
> > > than
> > > not.
> > 
> > I don't believe this is the case.
> 
> The software behaviour does not depend on one's beliefs.
> 
> $ apt show gnome-maps | grep Dep
> Depends: ... libgeocode-glib0 (>= 3.16.2) ...
> 
> $ apt-show libgeocode-glib0 | grep ^Desc
> Description: geocoding and reverse geocoding GLib library using
> Nominatim
> 
> And the source of geocode-glib shows the actual server they're using:
> 
> GeocodeNominatim *
> geocode_nominatim_get_gnome (void)
> {
>     GeocodeNominatim *backend;
> 
>     G_LOCK (backend_nominatim_gnome_lock);
>     backend = g_weak_ref_get (&backend_nominatim_gnome);
>     if (backend == NULL) {
>         backend = geocode_nominatim_new ("https://nominatim.gnome.org
> ",
>                                          "zeeshanak@gnome.org");
>         g_weak_ref_set (&backend_nominatim_gnome, backend);
>     }
>     G_UNLOCK (backend_nominatim_gnome_lock);
> 
>     return backend;
> }
Could you tell me if this code, by connecting to this service is
getting my location simply by using my IP address?

> > Is there any way I could check to see exactly where Gnome Maps is
> > getting the location from?
> 
> Being the GNOME software? The source is the only way to get sure.
> I'd check tcp:443 connections to 8.43.85.23.
> 
There is a connection to that IP address and it starts when I open
Gnome Maps (I think it connects to a different port though, Im a newbie
though)

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#221205

FromReco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net>
Date2020-04-11 17:20 +0200
Message-ID<zUq5n-5XL-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221195
	Hi.

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 09:28:51AM -0500, Anil F Duggirala wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-04-10 at 17:51 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 08:24:41AM -0500, Anil Felipe Duggirala
> > wrote:
> > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020, at 11:16 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> > > > It's just looking up your IP.  The method isn't reliable (it
> > > > usually
> > > > puts me on the other side of the state) but it works more often
> > > > than
> > > > not.
> > > 
> > > I don't believe this is the case.
> > 
> > The software behaviour does not depend on one's beliefs.
> > 
> > $ apt show gnome-maps | grep Dep
> > Depends: ... libgeocode-glib0 (>= 3.16.2) ...
> > 
> > $ apt-show libgeocode-glib0 | grep ^Desc
> > Description: geocoding and reverse geocoding GLib library using
> > Nominatim
> > 
> > And the source of geocode-glib shows the actual server they're using:
> > 
> > GeocodeNominatim *
> > geocode_nominatim_get_gnome (void)
> > {
> >     GeocodeNominatim *backend;
> > 
> >     G_LOCK (backend_nominatim_gnome_lock);
> >     backend = g_weak_ref_get (&backend_nominatim_gnome);
> >     if (backend == NULL) {
> >         backend = geocode_nominatim_new ("https://nominatim.gnome.org
> > ",
> >                                          "zeeshanak@gnome.org");
> >         g_weak_ref_set (&backend_nominatim_gnome, backend);
> >     }
> >     G_UNLOCK (backend_nominatim_gnome_lock);
> > 
> >     return backend;
> > }
>
> Could you tell me if this code, by connecting to this service is
> getting my location simply by using my IP address?

Answering "yes" here would be a gross oversimplification.
Answering "no" here would be a deviation from the truth.

I'd say it this way:

1) Your instance of GNOME Maps connects to nominatim.gnome.org by using
https. Your local IP address does not matter here, as long as the
connection gets established.

2) Due to the way your home network is made (it's called NAT), nobody
sees your computer IP but your router (or the router provided to you by
your ISP).

3) What's nominatim.gnome.org is seeing is the IP that's used by your
ISP for outbound connections on your behalf. It may be the same IP
that's your router is using for the WAN port, it may be different.

4) If you're interested what is your outbound ip - I suggest you to use
some Internet service like https://www.whatismyip.org/ . 

IP from pt 3 is enough to pinpoint your location with the country
precision at worst, city precision at best, and by the very definition
of what's happening here this information is available to you (via GNOME
Maps) and to the nominatim.gnome.org.

I do not GNOME Maps so I cannot comment on if it's possible to disable
this feature without rebuilding GNOME Maps from the source.


> > > Is there any way I could check to see exactly where Gnome Maps is
> > > getting the location from?
> > 
> > Being the GNOME software? The source is the only way to get sure.
> > I'd check tcp:443 connections to 8.43.85.23.
> > 
> There is a connection to that IP address and it starts when I open
> Gnome Maps (I think it connects to a different port though, Im a newbie
> though)

It's so called "ephemeral" port that's used on your side for the TCP
connection, and it's the usual thing.

What's important here is that confirms that GNOME Maps is using
aforementioned library for the purposes of establishing your location
regardless of the GNOME privacy setting.

Personally I see it as a privacy violation, but someone may see such
(mis)feature as a crucial function of GNOME Maps. In any case, a bug
report with the severity of "minor" can not do any harm, so I suggest
you to install "reportbug-gtk" package and report your findings in a
"gnome-maps" package to Debian's bugtracker.

Reco

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=gnome-maps

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#221382

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2020-04-13 13:40 +0200
Message-ID<zV5Bw-67X-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221195
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 09:28:51AM -0500, Anil F Duggirala wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-04-10 at 17:51 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > GeocodeNominatim *
> > geocode_nominatim_get_gnome (void)
> > {
> >     GeocodeNominatim *backend;
> > 
> >     G_LOCK (backend_nominatim_gnome_lock);
> >     backend = g_weak_ref_get (&backend_nominatim_gnome);
> >     if (backend == NULL) {
> >         backend = geocode_nominatim_new ("https://nominatim.gnome.org
> > ",
> >                                          "zeeshanak@gnome.org");
> >         g_weak_ref_set (&backend_nominatim_gnome, backend);
> >     }
> >     G_UNLOCK (backend_nominatim_gnome_lock);
> > 
> >     return backend;
> > }
> Could you tell me if this code, by connecting to this service is
> getting my location simply by using my IP address?

Why don't you visit that URL in a web browser and see what it says?

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#221158

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-04-10 17:20 +0200
Message-ID<zU3BM-uX-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221151
On Fri 10 Apr 2020 at 08:24:41 (-0500), Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020, at 11:16 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> > It's just looking up your IP.  The method isn't reliable (it usually
> > puts me on the other side of the state) but it works more often than
> > not.
> > 
> I don't believe this is the case. It's putting me right on the spot where I am.

It might be helpful if you would define 'spot'; not that I'm asking
you to give away your precise location, but does Gnome Maps know which
street you are in, or housing estate (your terminology may differ),
or region of the city.

> I live in Colombia,

Yes, I posted that, and with a precision of "district": DC.
Is that district correct, and do you see even more precision?

> I don't know if somehow ISPs here have a more detailed (precise location) database based on IP, or if that is possible at all.

There appear to be several IP→location websites, some free, some subscription.

> Is there any way I could check to see exactly where Gnome Maps is getting the location from? What is the default geolocation service installed by Gnome or Debian?

(Others responded.)

Cheers,
David.

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#221171

FromJohn Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com>
Date2020-04-10 20:00 +0200
Message-ID<zU66C-1SR-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221158
Anil writes:
> Is there any way I could check to see exactly where Gnome Maps is getting
> the location from? What is the default geolocation service installed by
> Gnome or Debian?

I misread Gnome Maps as Google Maps.


-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#221183

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-04-11 09:40 +0200
Message-ID<zUiU9-1sl-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221151

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Vi, 10 apr 20, 08:24:41, Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:
>
> I don't know if somehow ISPs here have a more detailed (precise 
> location) database based on IP, or if that is possible at all.

As far as I can tell it depends a lot on the ISP.

My current one apparently maintains its database down to city level... 
and then allocates those IPs dynamically all over the country :) 

My previous ISP was allocating pseudo-static IPs with location as 
accurate as city area.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#221185

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2020-04-11 10:30 +0200
Message-ID<zUjGx-1YR-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221183
On 2020-04-11, Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Vi, 10 apr 20, 08:24:41, Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if somehow ISPs here have a more detailed (precise
>> location) database based on IP, or if that is possible at all.

It would be interesting to know if there is an appreciable difference in
precision between Maps and Night Light before you fixed the latter's
imprecision (about which you complained in another thread here) by
presumably feeding it manually your latitudinal and longitudinal
coordinates. Because one would assume both apps would use the same IP
method to locate the user for the case of a user whose geolocation
services have been toggled off (or never toggled on) in his privacy
settings.

Of course, David W. is right (and also Wright!) to say we don't know
what you mean, exactly---at what level of granularity is Maps locating
you precisely (country/city/neighborhood/street/apartment
building/etc...)?

Rather than positing some egregious violation of user configuration on
the part of Maps, I was theorizing in an earlier post that a precision
on its part that couldn't be explained by simply inference from your IP
address might possibly be explained by Night Light sharing the
coordinates you provided it not long ago (if indeed you did do that, as
you never stated this explicitly, either). Whether that would be a bug
or not remains unclear to me.

> As far as I can tell it depends a lot on the ISP.
>
> My current one apparently maintains its database down to city level...=20
> and then allocates those IPs dynamically all over the country :)=20
>
> My previous ISP was allocating pseudo-static IPs with location as=20
> accurate as city area.
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --=20
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
>
> --dsd7ekpr465t763f
> Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
>
>
> --dsd7ekpr465t763f--
>
>


-- 

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#221199

FromAnil F Duggirala <anilduggirala@fastmail.fm>
Date2020-04-11 16:50 +0200
Message-ID<zUpCh-5ym-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221183
On Sat, 2020-04-11 at 10:33 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 10 apr 20, 08:24:41, Anil Felipe Duggirala wrote:
> > I don't know if somehow ISPs here have a more detailed (precise 
> > location) database based on IP, or if that is possible at all.
> 
> As far as I can tell it depends a lot on the ISP.
> 
> My current one apparently maintains its database down to city
> level... 
> and then allocates those IPs dynamically all over the country :) 
> 
> My previous ISP was allocating pseudo-static IPs with location as 
> accurate as city area.
> 
Regarding the precision of location. I do believe it might depend on
the ISPs and the country those ISPs are in (there must be laws
regarding this). I am saying that in Colombia, the ISPs have a very
detailed location map based on IP. I am a newbie and do not know a lot
about this.
thank you,

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#221169

Frommick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com>
Date2020-04-10 19:00 +0200
Message-ID<zU5ay-1id-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221123
On 2020-04-09 13:49, Anil F Duggirala wrote:
> hello,
> I am running Gnome 3 in Debian Buster. I am wondering why, even though
> my Location Services are set to Off (and has always been set to Off),
> when  I enter the Gnome Maps application, it determines and shows my
> location on the map.
> thank you,

What I'm not understanding is why there are these complex window manager 
things.
Presumably people want an easy way to click on a picture and make use 
some software ?


mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#221170

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2020-04-10 20:00 +0200
Message-ID<zU66C-1SR-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#221169
On 2020-04-10, mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What I'm not understanding is why there are these complex window manager 
> things.

You're hijacking the thread (and trolling). Please refrain.

> Presumably people want an easy way to click on a picture and make use 
> some software ?
>
>
> mick


-- 

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