Groups > linux.debian.user > #220496 > unrolled thread

HTML mail + PDF attachments

Started by	"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
First post	2020-03-26 05:00 +0100
Last post	2020-03-27 16:00 +0100
Articles	20 on this page of 73 — 21 participants

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  HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 05:00 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2020-03-26 06:00 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 07:40 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-26 10:10 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:40 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2020-03-26 13:20 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 13:40 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-26 06:10 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-26 09:30 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 10:20 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-26 10:50 +0100
          Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail +  PDF attachments) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-03-26 16:40 +0100
            Re: Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail  + PDF attachments) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-26 17:30 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 18:50 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-26 16:50 +0100
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 10:00 +0100
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-27 12:50 +0100
              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-03-27 14:50 +0100
                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 15:40 +0100
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-27 15:40 +0100
                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 17:20 +0100
                    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-27 17:50 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 18:10 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-27 18:40 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-03-27 21:20 +0100
                          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 10:10 +0100
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 10:40 +0100
                              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 11:10 +0100
                                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 14:20 +0100
                                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 15:00 +0100
                                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 15:40 +0100
                                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 16:10 +0100
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 10:40 +0100
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 10:40 +0100
                              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with  șurubelniță) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2020-03-28 10:50 +0100
                                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 14:10 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 20:40 +0100
                      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-28 05:20 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-28 09:40 +0100
                          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-30 20:40 +0200
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-03-31 01:30 +0200
                            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2020-03-31 12:00 +0200
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-28 09:50 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-28 09:50 +0100
                        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-30 13:30 +0200
                          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with șurubelniță) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-30 20:40 +0200
                    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments (with ??urubelni????) "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-27 21:10 +0100
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-28 10:00 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Jason <electron@emypeople.net> - 2020-04-13 19:40 +0200
          Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-04-13 20:50 +0200
            Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 09:00 +0200
              Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-04-14 09:30 +0200
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-04-14 10:20 +0200
                Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-14 22:30 +0200
                  Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-04-14 23:20 +0200
                    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-04-23 03:20 +0200
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2020-03-26 15:00 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 19:00 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2020-03-27 02:30 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2020-03-26 13:30 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-26 16:50 +0100
    Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-26 17:20 +0100
      Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-26 20:00 +0100
        Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 04:30 +0100
    [solved] Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-03-27 08:00 +0100
      Re: [solved] Re: HTML mail + PDF attachments David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-27 16:00 +0100

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#220496 — HTML mail + PDF attachments

From	"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date	2020-03-26 05:00 +0100
Subject	HTML mail + PDF attachments
Message-ID	<zOrQt-3Be-1@gated-at.bofh.it>

At the moment I am running neo-mutt on Debian 9.  Once or twice a day
I receive a HTML message, typically with a PDF file as an attachment.
Picking out and viewing the links and attachments always is a hassle,
and sometimes is rather difficult.

Rather than hassle with mutt, I hoped to install an auxiliary mail
client with GUI (such as Thunderbird) with which I could open such
messages, view the links, and print the attachments.

But Thunderbird is demanding the URLs of POP and SMPT servers, and I
do not wish to allow Thunderbird to mess around with my mail, other
than viewing specific messages.

One approach would be to get a mail account strictly for this purpose,
and set up a complete Thunderbird mail system using that account.

But is there a better solution?

RLH

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#220497

From	David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
Date	2020-03-26 06:00 +0100
Message-ID	<zOsMz-4aK-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220496

On 2020-03-25 20:03, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> At the moment I am running neo-mutt on Debian 9.  Once or twice a day
> I receive a HTML message, typically with a PDF file as an attachment.
> Picking out and viewing the links and attachments always is a hassle,
> and sometimes is rather difficult.
> 
> Rather than hassle with mutt, I hoped to install an auxiliary mail
> client with GUI (such as Thunderbird) with which I could open such
> messages, view the links, and print the attachments.
> 
> But Thunderbird is demanding the URLs of POP and SMPT servers, and I
> do not wish to allow Thunderbird to mess around with my mail, other
> than viewing specific messages.
> 
> One approach would be to get a mail account strictly for this purpose,
> and set up a complete Thunderbird mail system using that account.
> 
> But is there a better solution?
> 
> RLH

If you configure all your e-mail clients to leave the messages on the 
server, you should be able to access the same e-mail server account from 
multiple clients.  Current clients using IMAP seem to work this way 
(Thunderbird, Apple Mail).

When I used POP (POP3?) clients in the past (Outlook Express, Outlook, 
Thunderbird), the clients defaulted to downloading and removing messages 
from the server.  I don't know if that was part of POP or a setting in 
the client.  If the latter, you might be able to tune your POP clients 
to leave the messages on the server.  This would enable access from 
multiple clients.

A related issue is encryption on the incoming and outgoing connections. 
Current clients and servers seem to use some variant of TLS for both.

David

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#220499

From	"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date	2020-03-26 07:40 +0100
Message-ID	<zOulk-5gy-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220497

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 09:51:51PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
>If you configure all your e-mail clients to leave the messages on the 
>server, you should be able to access the same e-mail server account 
>from multiple clients.  Current clients using IMAP seem to work this 
>way (Thunderbird, Apple Mail).
>
>When I used POP (POP3?) clients in the past (Outlook Express, Outlook, 
>Thunderbird), the clients defaulted to downloading and removing 
>messages from the server.  I don't know if that was part of POP or a 
>setting in the client.  If the latter, you might be able to tune your 
>POP clients to leave the messages on the server.  This would enable 
>access from multiple clients.
>
>A related issue is encryption on the incoming and outgoing 
>connections. Current clients and servers seem to use some variant of 
>TLS for both.

I do not like IMAP; POP is better for my needs.

Things now are working well using getmail to download from POP3 to the
maildir on my computer.  And I have getmail set to mark for deletion
after download.  

As to leaving messages on the server: until a few years ago I was
working in more than one location and thus was using web interface
clients, but when I switched ISP the download (using getmail) to get
the messages from the POP3 server to my machine took a number of
24-hour days.  That was an expensive lesson.  And I am glad to be back
with mutt, as opposed to web interface.

getmail has the ability to use the standard method of encryption for
the transfer.

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#220505

From	Joe <joe@jretrading.com>
Date	2020-03-26 10:10 +0100
Message-ID	<zOwGt-6NH-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220497

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 21:51:51 -0700
David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> wrote:

> On 2020-03-25 20:03, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > At the moment I am running neo-mutt on Debian 9.  Once or twice a
> > day I receive a HTML message, typically with a PDF file as an
> > attachment. Picking out and viewing the links and attachments
> > always is a hassle, and sometimes is rather difficult.
> > 
> > Rather than hassle with mutt, I hoped to install an auxiliary mail
> > client with GUI (such as Thunderbird) with which I could open such
> > messages, view the links, and print the attachments.
> > 
> > But Thunderbird is demanding the URLs of POP and SMPT servers, and I
> > do not wish to allow Thunderbird to mess around with my mail, other
> > than viewing specific messages.
> > 
> > One approach would be to get a mail account strictly for this
> > purpose, and set up a complete Thunderbird mail system using that
> > account.
> > 
> > But is there a better solution?
> > 
> > RLH  
> 
> If you configure all your e-mail clients to leave the messages on the 
> server, you should be able to access the same e-mail server account
> from multiple clients.  Current clients using IMAP seem to work this
> way (Thunderbird, Apple Mail).

IMAP is intended to keep the mail on the server, POP3 isn't.
> 
> 
> When I used POP (POP3?) clients in the past (Outlook Express,
> Outlook, Thunderbird), the clients defaulted to downloading and
> removing messages from the server.

That is the normal behaviour of POP3. It was widely offered in the days
of expensive disc space, when mail hosting businesses didn't want to
store your email.

> I don't know if that was part of
> POP or a setting in the client.  If the latter, you might be able to
> tune your POP clients to leave the messages on the server.  This
> would enable access from multiple clients.
> 
There is a POP3 directive KEEP which is used for debugging and does not
delete the mail on the server.

-- 
Joe

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#220514

From	Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date	2020-03-26 12:40 +0100
Message-ID	<zOz1D-86X-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220497

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mar 25, 2020, David Christensen wrote:
> On 2020-03-25 20:03, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > At the moment I am running neo-mutt on Debian 9.  Once or twice a day
> > I receive a HTML message, typically with a PDF file as an attachment.
> > Picking out and viewing the links and attachments always is a hassle,
> > and sometimes is rather difficult.
> > 
> > Rather than hassle with mutt, I hoped to install an auxiliary mail
> > client with GUI (such as Thunderbird) with which I could open such
> > messages, view the links, and print the attachments.
> > 
> > But Thunderbird is demanding the URLs of POP and SMPT servers, and I
> > do not wish to allow Thunderbird to mess around with my mail, other
> > than viewing specific messages.
> > 
> > One approach would be to get a mail account strictly for this purpose,
> > and set up a complete Thunderbird mail system using that account.
> > 
> > But is there a better solution?
> > 
> > RLH
> 
> If you configure all your e-mail clients to leave the messages on the
> server, you should be able to access the same e-mail server account from
> multiple clients.  Current clients using IMAP seem to work this way
> (Thunderbird, Apple Mail).
> 
> 
> When I used POP (POP3?) clients in the past (Outlook Express, Outlook,
> Thunderbird), the clients defaulted to downloading and removing messages
> from the server.  I don't know if that was part of POP or a setting in the
> client.  If the latter, you might be able to tune your POP clients to
> leave the messages on the server.  This would enable access from
> multiple clients.

It is a property of POP itself. It's exactly like a post office (well,
more specifically, a PO box) -- once you've removed your letters from
the post office, they don't have a copy anymore.  And, as I understand
it, kind of the reason for it being named "Post Office Protocol".

As you said, the correct approach would be utilizing IMAP -- however,
whether or not there is IMAP access is entirely dependent on the
server's configuration.  Offhand I don't know of any that _only_ support
POP3 these days; but there's always the chance of that.


-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#220519

From	Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk>
Date	2020-03-26 13:20 +0100
Message-ID	<zOzEm-9j-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220514

On Thu, 2020-03-26 at 07:38 -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:
> As you said, the correct approach would be utilizing IMAP -- however,
> whether or not there is IMAP access is entirely dependent on the
> server's configuration.  Offhand I don't know of any that _only_
> support
> POP3 these days; but there's always the chance of that.

I just check my old ISP who I still pay for using the old email address
I had with them, and their FAQ says, POP only, no IMAP.

I bet a lot of those ISP's that still provide email for customers only
support POP3, they certainly never use to support IMAP and I can't see
them adding it, it's no extra benefit to them and IMAP takes more CPU
and storage resources (with pop being default delete on download).

-- 
Tixy

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#220522

From	Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date	2020-03-26 13:40 +0100
Message-ID	<zOzXH-g5-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220519

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mar 26, 2020, Tixy wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-03-26 at 07:38 -0400, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > As you said, the correct approach would be utilizing IMAP -- however,
> > whether or not there is IMAP access is entirely dependent on the
> > server's configuration.  Offhand I don't know of any that _only_
> > support
> > POP3 these days; but there's always the chance of that.
> 
> I just check my old ISP who I still pay for using the old email address
> I had with them, and their FAQ says, POP only, no IMAP.

Guess I'm lucky then - have never tied myself to an ISP's email address
for anything beyond what they required me to (e.g. logging into their
service to pay the bill).

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#220498

From	Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date	2020-03-26 06:10 +0100
Message-ID	<zOsWd-4tK-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220496

On Wednesday 25 March 2020 23:03:55 Russell L. Harris wrote:

> At the moment I am running neo-mutt on Debian 9.  Once or twice a day
> I receive a HTML message, typically with a PDF file as an attachment.
> Picking out and viewing the links and attachments always is a hassle,
> and sometimes is rather difficult.
>
> Rather than hassle with mutt, I hoped to install an auxiliary mail
> client with GUI (such as Thunderbird) with which I could open such
> messages, view the links, and print the attachments.
>
> But Thunderbird is demanding the URLs of POP and SMPT servers, and I
> do not wish to allow Thunderbird to mess around with my mail, other
> than viewing specific messages.
>
> One approach would be to get a mail account strictly for this purpose,
> and set up a complete Thunderbird mail system using that account.
>
> But is there a better solution?
>
> RLH

Fetchmail as a daemon using procmail as an MTA, procmail driveing all the 
spam/virus filters. What survives that gauntlet dumped 
into /var/spool/mail and a dbus message sent to kmail telling it to go 
get the incoming mail.

Computers are supposed to reduce your work, and this flow reduces 
servicing an email to two clicks plus whatever typing I want to do.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#220502

From	Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date	2020-03-26 09:30 +0100
Message-ID	<zOw3L-6kJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220496

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Jo, 26 mar 20, 03:03:55, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> At the moment I am running neo-mutt on Debian 9.  Once or twice a day
> I receive a HTML message, typically with a PDF file as an attachment.
> Picking out and viewing the links and attachments always is a hassle,
> and sometimes is rather difficult.

Opening pdfs in a reader is trivial with mutt. Just press 'v' and then 
'Return' on the pdf attachment. It should be opened in your default pdf 
viewer. This should work also for 'html' parts to be opened in your 
default browser.

I'm assuming you already tried urlview and / or having the html mails 
rendered with some text browser (I'm using w3m).

URLs: install urlview and press Ctrl-b to select the url you want (will 
be passed to your default browser)

HTML rendering: install w3m and add 'auto_view text/html' to your 
muttrc. You might also want to set 'alternative_order' to your 
preference (I have it set to prefer text over html as I'm using mutt 
mostly to read Debian lists).

> Rather than hassle with mutt, I hoped to install an auxiliary mail
> client with GUI (such as Thunderbird) with which I could open such
> messages, view the links, and print the attachments.

As per your other message you are using getmail to download everything 
via POP3 to a local Maildir folder. This is important information!

> But Thunderbird is demanding the URLs of POP and SMPT servers, and I
> do not wish to allow Thunderbird to mess around with my mail, other
> than viewing specific messages.

There surely are ways to skip the wizard. The only question remains 
whether Thunderbird can access Maildirs directly. I would have suggested 
Claws Mail if it had support for Maildir (as far as I recall the plugin 
was buggy and unmaintained).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#220506

From	"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date	2020-03-26 10:20 +0100
Message-ID	<zOwQ9-6S4-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220502

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:24:38AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>Opening pdfs in a reader is trivial with mutt. Just press 'v' and then
>'Return' on the pdf attachment. It should be opened in your default pdf
>viewer. This should work also for 'html' parts to be opened in your
>default browser.

I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:

    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=

>I'm assuming you already tried urlview and / or having the html mails
>rendered with some text browser (I'm using w3m).
>
>URLs: install urlview and press Ctrl-b to select the url you want (will
>be passed to your default browser)

And urlview has difficulty with some of the links.

>HTML rendering: install w3m and add 'auto_view text/html' to your
>muttrc. You might also want to set 'alternative_order' to your
>preference (I have it set to prefer text over html as I'm using mutt
>mostly to read Debian lists).

I need to check these, tomorrow; I thank you, Andrei.

>As per your other message you are using getmail to download everything
>via POP3 to a local Maildir folder. This is important information!

>There surely are ways to skip the wizard.

But is it worth the time and effort?

>The only question remains whether Thunderbird can access Maildirs
>directly.

I do not mind saving the message to a non-maildir, but I suppose that
means a mbox file.

All things considered, I am thinking that the best solution is to set
up a POP account on another domain and configure Thunderbird to fetch
mail from that location.  Then all I need to do in mutt is to forward
troublesome messages to that account.

RLH

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#220507

From	<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date	2020-03-26 10:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zOxjd-71A-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220506

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:24:38AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> >Opening pdfs in a reader is trivial with mutt. Just press 'v' and then
> >'Return' on the pdf attachment. It should be opened in your default pdf
> >viewer. This should work also for 'html' parts to be opened in your
> >default browser.
> 
> I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> 
>    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=

This is not a PDF (it would be a very short one, mind you :)

This is a string in MIME's "Encoded-Word" encoding [1], which is used
to wrap non-ASCII stuff in an MIME metadata (i.e. header) snippet.

Following the reference, that's what you can read off it:

  =?utf-8 -- means that the actual content is an UTF-8 encoded string
   ?B     -- means that what comes now is a base-64 encoding of the
             above

  After the next "?" comes the data:

  QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==

(the two trailing equals signs are padding, part of the base64 thingy;
the last ?= are MIME delimiters according to [1]).

Base-64 decoding it [2] yields:

  BH_854096230.pdf

This looks like a file name to me. Note that, in hindsight, all this
encoding nonsense wouldn't have been necessary, because the original
above *is* already plain ASCII. This is a case of stupid software 
obscuring things to make users even more stupid and dependent [3].

The PDF itself is somewhere else (perhaps in a MIME part somewhere
in that mail, perhaps sitting in some file system, whatever).

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipurpose_Internet_Mail_Extensions#Encoded-Word
[2] In Emacs, just mark that string and M-x base64-decode-region.
   Your editor sure has a way to do this, hasn't it?
[3] I don't think it's really intentional. It's an unfortunate and
   contagious antipattern, a bit like prions transmit Creutzfeld-Jacob.
   But nowadays I suspect that some actors help its expansion because
   it helps their business interests. Or something.

-- tomás

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#220527 — Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail + PDF attachments)

From	Nicolas George <george@nsup.org>
Date	2020-03-26 16:40 +0100
Subject	Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail + PDF attachments)
Message-ID	<zOCLT-1Zz-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220507

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

tomas@tuxteam.de (12020-03-26):
> [3] I don't think it's really intentional. It's an unfortunate and
>    contagious antipattern, a bit like prions transmit Creutzfeld-Jacob.
>    But nowadays I suspect that some actors help its expansion because
>    it helps their business interests. Or something.

This specific one is probably just laziness. But you are right to
emphasize this phenomenon.

The PR of the Libre Software movement has been successful: people have
internalized the fact that Libre Software is good. But the education
efforts have been unsuccessful: people have not learned why Libre
Software is good.

As a result, we see many actors who try to reap the benefits without
sowing the seeds: to get the PR boost of “doing Open Source” without
actually giving their code. To do that, they give the raw code itself,
but make it immensely complicated, and do not give the know-how to work
on it, or even to make it work.

I like your comparison with prions: when over-engineered software
become frequent, good software needs to become more complex in order to
be able to interact with it.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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#220531 — Re: Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail + PDF attachments)

From	<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date	2020-03-26 17:30 +0100
Subject	Re: Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail + PDF attachments)
Message-ID	<zODyh-2vN-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220527

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 04:39:10PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> tomas@tuxteam.de (12020-03-26):
> > [3] I don't think it's really intentional. It's an unfortunate and
> >    contagious antipattern, a bit like prions transmit Creutzfeld-Jacob.
> >    But nowadays I suspect that some actors help its expansion because
> >    it helps their business interests. Or something.

Glad my strange rant finds some appreciation. I'm having a hard time
to even pack this in words.

> This specific one is probably just laziness. But you are right to
> emphasize this phenomenon.

That's the point. Lazyness is always a part of it. But there are
counter-parts. They might be more sinister. Or not.

Like in other realms: don't invest in education and people will
stay more malleable.

> The PR of the Libre Software movement has been successful: people have
> internalized the fact that Libre Software is good. But the education
> efforts have been unsuccessful: people have not learned why Libre
> Software is good.

It is kinda difficult to explain, isn't it?

> As a result, we see many actors who try to reap the benefits without
> sowing the seeds: to get the PR boost of “doing Open Source” without
> actually giving their code. To do that, they give the raw code itself,
> but make it immensely complicated, and do not give the know-how to work
> on it, or even to make it work.
> 
> I like your comparison with prions: when over-engineered software
> become frequent, good software needs to become more complex in order to
> be able to interact with it.

Two more links, one from aeons ago (nearly a quarter-century) by
Raph Levien (of Ghostscript and many more fames), "he decommoditization
of protocols" [1] and a fairly recent one by Drew DeVault "The reckless,
infinite scope of web browsers" [2]. Finding commonalities and differences
is left as an exercise for the reader :-)

In some way, we've won. In some other, we've lost. We are in a similar
stuation to the Bad Old Times of "best viewed with Internet Explorer",
where one company controls the clients (Android, Chrome). But they
are "Open Source", somehow.

Cheers

[1] https://www.levien.com/free/decommoditizing.html
[2] https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html

-- tomás

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#220532

From	"Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org>
Date	2020-03-26 18:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zOENI-3el-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220507

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:44:14AM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>>    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
>
>This is not a PDF (it would be a very short one, mind you :)

I misspoke; I should have said "string" rather than "PDF".  But I did
not discover how to get mutt to point me to the PDF file associated
with the string.


>This is a string in MIME's "Encoded-Word" encoding [1], which is used
>to wrap non-ASCII stuff in an MIME metadata (i.e. header) snippet.
>
>Following the reference, that's what you can read off it:
>
>  =?utf-8 -- means that the actual content is an UTF-8 encoded string
>   ?B     -- means that what comes now is a base-64 encoding of the
>             above
>
>  After the next "?" comes the data:
>
>  QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==
>
>(the two trailing equals signs are padding, part of the base64 thingy;
>the last ?= are MIME delimiters according to [1]).
>
>Base-64 decoding it [2] yields:
>
>  BH_854096230.pdf
>
>This looks like a file name to me.

Indeed, it is.  But I do not know where the file resides.  

>Note that, in hindsight, all this encoding nonsense wouldn't have
>been necessary, because the original above *is* already plain
>ASCII. This is a case of stupid software obscuring things to make
>users even more stupid and dependent [3].

Agreed; but I cannot force the other guy to use an intelligent mail client.

>The PDF itself is somewhere else (perhaps in a MIME part somewhere
>in that mail, perhaps sitting in some file system, whatever).
>
>Cheers
>
>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipurpose_Internet_Mail_Extensions#Encoded-Word
>[2] In Emacs, just mark that string and M-x base64-decode-region.
>   Your editor sure has a way to do this, hasn't it?

I run Emacs, but I did not know about "M-x base64-decode-region";
thanks.

>[3] I don't think it's really intentional. It's an unfortunate and
>   contagious antipattern, a bit like prions transmit Creutzfeld-Jacob.
>   But nowadays I suspect that some actors help its expansion because
>   it helps their business interests. Or something.

I think it is just the general incompetence and arrogance of the
micro$oft culture.

RLH

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#220516

From	Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date	2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zOzbj-8aA-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220506

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mar 26, 2020, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:24:38AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > Opening pdfs in a reader is trivial with mutt. Just press 'v' and then
> > 'Return' on the pdf attachment. It should be opened in your default pdf
> > viewer. This should work also for 'html' parts to be opened in your
> > default browser.
> 
> I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> 
>    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=

delete it.


-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#220518

From	Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date	2020-03-26 12:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zOzbj-8aA-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220516

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mar 26, 2020, Dan Purgert wrote:
> On Mar 26, 2020, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:24:38AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > Opening pdfs in a reader is trivial with mutt. Just press 'v' and then
> > > 'Return' on the pdf attachment. It should be opened in your default pdf
> > > viewer. This should work also for 'html' parts to be opened in your
> > > default browser.
> > 
> > I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> > expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> > 
> >    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
> 
> delete it.

I misinterpreted that as the actual filename received (a la "your
package is ready!" type spam), and not encoding of the filename crammed
somewhere into the body of the message.


-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#220529

From	Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net>
Date	2020-03-26 16:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zOCVz-22T-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220506

	Hi.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:24:38AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > Opening pdfs in a reader is trivial with mutt. Just press 'v' and then
> > 'Return' on the pdf attachment. It should be opened in your default pdf
> > viewer. This should work also for 'html' parts to be opened in your
> > default browser.
> 
> I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> 
>    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=

Read muttrc(5), insert "rfc2047_parameters=true" in your .muttrc.

Reco

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#220546

From	Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date	2020-03-27 10:00 +0100
Message-ID	<zOT0l-3XI-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220529

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Jo, 26 mar 20, 18:41:10, Reco wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > 
> > I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> > expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> > 
> >    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
> 
> Read muttrc(5), insert "rfc2047_parameters=true" in your .muttrc.

Nice one, added. Wondering why it's not the default though...

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#220556

From	Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net>
Date	2020-03-27 12:50 +0100
Message-ID	<zOVES-5Di-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220546

	Hi.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:51:46AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 26 mar 20, 18:41:10, Reco wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 08:53:35AM +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > > 
> > > I understand.  But some of the stuff I receive does not work as
> > > expected.  What do I do with the following PDF:
> > > 
> > >    =?utf-8?B?QkhfODU0MDk2MjMwLnBkZg==?=
> > 
> > Read muttrc(5), insert "rfc2047_parameters=true" in your .muttrc.
> 
> Nice one, added. Wondering why it's not the default though...

A small correction. It's "set rfc2047_parameters=true".
Why it's not the default? Usually all attachments have names that's
encoded in 7-bit (ascii), so that tunable is not needed.
Unless, of course, e-mail was composed by insane MUA, or an attachment
was named using non-Latin characters.

Reco

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#220559

From	Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date	2020-03-27 13:30 +0100
Message-ID	<zOWhA-66d-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to	#220556

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Vi, 27 mar 20, 14:40:21, Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 10:51:46AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > Nice one, added. Wondering why it's not the default though...
> 
> A small correction. It's "set rfc2047_parameters=true".

    set rfc2047_parameters

is already sufficient (because it's boolean).

> Why it's not the default? Usually all attachments have names that's
> encoded in 7-bit (ascii), so that tunable is not needed.
> Unless, of course, e-mail was composed by insane MUA,

As far as I can tell in this case the only practical benefit of not 
having it on by default would be to spot buggy MUAs. Other than that it 
would be just correctness for correctness sake.

> or an attachment was named using non-Latin characters.

Is that non-Latin or non-ASCII? The former would imply about half of the 
world's population, the latter something like two thirds or more (just 
guessing, didn't check numbers).

(attaching a zero length file with the name using some special Romanian 
characters to this mail)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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csiph-web

HTML mail + PDF attachments

Contents

#220496 — HTML mail + PDF attachments

#220497

#220499

#220505

#220514

#220519

#220522

#220498

#220502

#220506

#220507

#220527 — Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail + PDF attachments)

#220531 — Re: Over-engineering, Libre Software and Open Source (was: HTML mail + PDF attachments)

#220532

#220516

#220518

#220529

#220546

#220556

#220559