Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > linux.debian.user > #220294 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-03-23 02:40 +0100 |
| Last post | 2020-03-24 16:30 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 66 — 27 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
Buster without systemd? Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 02:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-03-23 03:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2020-03-23 07:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-23 09:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-03-23 08:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Renato Gallo <renato@aster-lab.com> - 2020-03-23 09:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-23 09:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-23 09:50 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Renato Gallo <renato@aster-lab.com> - 2020-03-23 10:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-03-23 11:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> - 2020-03-24 14:50 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-03-24 18:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-25 10:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-25 11:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Toni Mas <antomassol@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 00:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-23 09:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-03-23 14:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-23 15:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 15:50 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-23 16:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-03-23 16:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Tony van der Hoff <lists@vanderhoff.org> - 2020-03-23 17:50 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-23 18:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-03-23 18:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-03-23 18:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 12:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-03-24 14:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-23 18:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-03-23 20:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-23 21:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-23 22:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-24 00:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 11:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-24 12:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-24 12:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 12:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 15:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 16:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 21:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-24 15:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-24 18:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 22:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-24 10:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-24 11:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-24 11:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 12:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-24 12:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 12:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 14:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-03-24 18:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-03-24 14:20 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-24 14:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-24 15:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-24 03:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 16:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2020-03-24 19:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2020-03-23 18:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-03-23 19:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-03-24 10:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 20:00 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Klaus Singvogel <deb-user-ml@singvogel.net> - 2020-03-23 20:50 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-24 04:10 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Klaus Singvogel <klaus@singvogel.net> - 2020-03-24 17:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 00:40 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Michael Howard <mike@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2020-03-24 01:30 +0100
Re: Buster without systemd? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2020-03-24 16:30 +0100
Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4 Next page →
| From | Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 02:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Buster without systemd? |
| Message-ID | <zNkel-2TE-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
Supposedly, one can install/upgrade to Buster while maintaining sysv as init. Or has this changed. Over the past several months I have been attempting to upgrade to Buster, but I have been completely unsuccessful. Has anyone managed to upgrade to Buster without installing systemd, or jumping through hoops that would drive a lion tamer mad? I made a copy of all of my partitions so that I could do the upgrade while maintaining Stretch in case something went wrong. I'm glad that I did! The first time that I tried this, I actually managed to upgrade to Buster and have everything appear to work. Then I realized that I had only done an "upgrade" but not a "full-upgrade". After that, X would not start. I have, as I said, spent several months trying to get X working on Buster without systemd. I have not been successful. None of my later attempts ever got a working Buster with X, at all. Is it possible to do what I want? Or, after 21 to 22 years of using Debian (since Bo), do I have to switch to another linux distro? I would rather not have to switch, but you choose the distro that suits your needs, and if Debian no longer suits my needs then I may have to. Marc
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 03:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNkR3-3my-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220294 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 2020-03-22 at 21:21, Marc Shapiro wrote: > Supposedly, one can install/upgrade to Buster while maintaining sysv > as init. Or has this changed. Over the past several months I have > been attempting to upgrade to Buster, but I have been completely > unsuccessful. > > Has anyone managed to upgrade to Buster without installing systemd, > or jumping through hoops that would drive a lion tamer mad? > > I made a copy of all of my partitions so that I could do the upgrade > while maintaining Stretch in case something went wrong. I'm glad > that I did! > > The first time that I tried this, I actually managed to upgrade to > Buster and have everything appear to work. Then I realized that I > had only done an "upgrade" but not a "full-upgrade". After that, X > would not start. I have, as I said, spent several months trying to > get X working on Buster without systemd. I have not been successful. > None of my later attempts ever got a working Buster with X, at all. How are you starting X? I start it manually from the console via startx, and in order for that to work, I've needed the xserver-xorg-legacy package and some matching settings configured locally. IIRC that around the time of the systemd switchover (not necessarily tied to systemd itself), there were changes made in the way X is to be launched, such that with the right configuration it can be run without root rights - but that if you don't have that configuration, and you're not launching X as root directly, you need this "legacy" setup. Last time I was looking at it, I don't think I found any practical way to do that configuration without systemd or some replication of part of its functionality. For what it's worth, I track current testing, and the only systemd-related packages on my system that I know of are libsystemd0 and udev. I certainly don't have any problems with starting X. I did the initial upgrade around the time of the original init-systems GR, and have been tracking testing in this way ever since; the most I've had to do is wrangle some package pins to avoid having some dependency attempt to install libpam-systemd (and therefore switch the init system to systemd) on package install or dist-upgrade, and that hasn't been particularly hard for quite some time now. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 07:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNorE-5I5-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220295 |
On 2020-03-22 21:57 -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2020-03-22 at 21:21, Marc Shapiro wrote:
>
>> Supposedly, one can install/upgrade to Buster while maintaining sysv
>> as init. Or has this changed. Over the past several months I have
>> been attempting to upgrade to Buster, but I have been completely
>> unsuccessful.
>>
>> Has anyone managed to upgrade to Buster without installing systemd,
>> or jumping through hoops that would drive a lion tamer mad?
>>
>> I made a copy of all of my partitions so that I could do the upgrade
>> while maintaining Stretch in case something went wrong. I'm glad
>> that I did!
>>
>> The first time that I tried this, I actually managed to upgrade to
>> Buster and have everything appear to work. Then I realized that I
>> had only done an "upgrade" but not a "full-upgrade". After that, X
>> would not start. I have, as I said, spent several months trying to
>> get X working on Buster without systemd. I have not been successful.
>> None of my later attempts ever got a working Buster with X, at all.
>
> How are you starting X?
>
> I start it manually from the console via startx, and in order for that
> to work, I've needed the xserver-xorg-legacy package and some matching
> settings configured locally.
>
> IIRC that around the time of the systemd switchover (not necessarily
> tied to systemd itself), there were changes made in the way X is to be
> launched, such that with the right configuration it can be run without
> root rights - but that if you don't have that configuration, and you're
> not launching X as root directly, you need this "legacy" setup. Last
> time I was looking at it, I don't think I found any practical way to do
> that configuration without systemd or some replication of part of its
> functionality.
It should be possible to run X without root rights if you install
elogind. What the X server needs is access to your input devices, and
logind provides that to locally logged in users.
With systemd-logind startx works out of the box, no configuration
necessary. Since elogind is a fork of systemd-logind, I suspect the
same holds for it, but I cannot easily test that.
Cheers,
Sven
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 09:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNqD8-6WE-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220295 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 09:57:36PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2020-03-22 at 21:21, Marc Shapiro wrote: > > > [...] Then I realized that I > > had only done an "upgrade" but not a "full-upgrade". After that, X > > would not start [...] > How are you starting X? > > I start it manually from the console via startx, and in order for that > to work, I've needed the xserver-xorg-legacy package and some matching > settings configured locally. Oh, yes, forgot about that one (since it came up with Stretch). I'm running xserver-xorg-legacy too. Cheers -- tomás
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 08:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNpH3-6nO-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220294 |
Marc Shapiro composed on 2020-03-22 18:21 (UTC-0700): > after 21 to 22 years of using > Debian (since Bo), do I have to switch to another linux distro? AFAIK, no one has ever died as a consequence of using an OS with systemd. So, no, you don't "have to" switch to another distro. You can do as most have done, fondly or not so fondly remember sysvinit, and accept the change, whether for better or worse. OTOH, would switching to Devuan really be "switching" to another distro? That's like "switching" to any of the zillion distros based on Debian that include Debian repos in sources.list. They're mostly Debian but with different defaults, different far more the interface than the guts that make Debian debian. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Renato Gallo <renato@aster-lab.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 09:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNqjL-6Qh-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220300 |
linux without systemd = race condition risks = why in hell anyone would want to do it ? ----- Messaggio originale ----- Da: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net> A: "debian-user" <debian-user@lists.debian.org> Inviato: Lunedì, 23 marzo 2020 8:08:28 Oggetto: Re: Buster without systemd? Marc Shapiro composed on 2020-03-22 18:21 (UTC-0700): > after 21 to 22 years of using > Debian (since Bo), do I have to switch to another linux distro? AFAIK, no one has ever died as a consequence of using an OS with systemd. So, no, you don't "have to" switch to another distro. You can do as most have done, fondly or not so fondly remember sysvinit, and accept the change, whether for better or worse. OTOH, would switching to Devuan really be "switching" to another distro? That's like "switching" to any of the zillion distros based on Debian that include Debian repos in sources.list. They're mostly Debian but with different defaults, different far more the interface than the guts that make Debian debian. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 09:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNqMO-708-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220301 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 08:48:57AM +0100, Renato Gallo wrote: > > linux without systemd = race condition risks = why in hell anyone would want to do it ? I think we've had enough of this already. See, Marc? Cheers -- tomás
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 09:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNqWu-73U-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220301 |
Hi. On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 08:48:57AM +0100, Renato Gallo wrote: > > linux without systemd = race condition risks = why in hell anyone would want to do it ? <Carefully looks at openwrt, Debian 10 and android>. Rly? Reco
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Renato Gallo <renato@aster-lab.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 10:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNrpv-7uc-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220305 |
Rly, systemd is, between things, a way to be sure when and after what something starts isn't it ? ----- Messaggio originale ----- Da: "Reco" <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> A: "debian-user" <debian-user@lists.debian.org> Inviato: Lunedì, 23 marzo 2020 9:27:29 Oggetto: Re: Buster without systemd? Hi. On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 08:48:57AM +0100, Renato Gallo wrote: > > linux without systemd = race condition risks = why in hell anyone would want to do it ? <Carefully looks at openwrt, Debian 10 and android>. Rly? Reco
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 11:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNs2e-7I0-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220306 |
Please do not top post. Reply to the list. On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 09:59:25AM +0100, Renato Gallo wrote: > > > Rly, systemd is, between things, a way to be sure when and after what something starts isn't it ? Does not make it any special, in comparing to any other init system in existence. Reco
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-24 14:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNS6l-6UM-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220306 |
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 09:59:25AM +0100, Renato Gallo wrote: > Rly, systemd is, between things, a way to be sure when and after what something starts isn't it ? I expect that there would be much, much less resistance to systemd if that were all that it does. However, it has evolved to take over a number of other functions aside from managing the order that services are started, which makes many people uncomfortable with it. -- Dave Sherohman
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-24 18:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNVdT-y2-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220382 |
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:30:03 -0500 Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> wrote: > I expect that there would be much, much less resistance to systemd if > that were all that it does. However, it has evolved to take over a > number of other functions aside from managing the order that services > are started, which makes many people uncomfortable with it. It is positively Balmeresque in its insistence on metastasizing all over your computer, and in its insistence on being the One True Solution to whatever your problem may be. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-25 10:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zOaFY-1zU-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220401 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Ma, 24 mar 20, 10:23:59, Charles Curley wrote: > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:30:03 -0500 > Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> wrote: > > > I expect that there would be much, much less resistance to systemd if > > that were all that it does. However, it has evolved to take over a > > number of other functions aside from managing the order that services > > are started, which makes many people uncomfortable with it. > > It is positively Balmeresque in its insistence on metastasizing all over > your computer, and in its insistence on being the One True Solution to > whatever your problem may be. It seems to me like you are comparing a FLOSS project with a company that used its dominant market position to squash competition and a terminal disease. This would be very insulting to those FLOSS developers, as well as all developers of other FLOSS projects that *chose* to depend on systemd (or parts of it), so I must surely be misunderstanding something. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-25 11:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zOb8Z-1ZA-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220462 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 11:19:22AM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Ma, 24 mar 20, 10:23:59, Charles Curley wrote: [...] > > It is positively Balmeresque in its insistence on metastasizing all over > > your computer [...] > It seems to me like you are comparing a FLOSS project with a company > that used its dominant market position to squash competition and a > terminal disease. Agreed. I didn't like that either. Whatever the systemd team is doing, and whether I like it or not -- they're doing free software. Attributes like "Balmeresque" are doubly insulting, "metastasize" are insulting (ironically copying Balmer's rhethoric -- remember "Linux is a cancer"?). Those folks are doing free software. By all means criticize what they are doing (or, even better: do something yourself), but FFS, take that into account! > This would be very insulting to those FLOSS developers, as well as all > developers of other FLOSS projects that *chose* to depend on systemd (or > parts of it), so I must surely be misunderstanding something. Thanks. Sometimes I get tired of blowing into that horn. Don't want systemd? Don't use it. And contribute to alternatives? And be polite to those who do like systemd. (And vice-versa, of course). Cheers -- t
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Toni Mas <antomassol@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-24 00:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNEwp-75W-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220301 |
I did. I just did not use "full-upgrade" option. I upgraded package by package resolving all dependencies and I had to install elogind but it is not needed to start X system. It was just for dependencies. Please, could you explain the race of conditions risk race? Thanks. Toni Mas Missatge de Renato Gallo <renato@aster-lab.com> del dia dl., 23 de març 2020 a les 9:06: > > > linux without systemd = race condition risks = why in hell anyone would want to do it ? > > ----- Messaggio originale ----- > Da: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net> > A: "debian-user" <debian-user@lists.debian.org> > Inviato: Lunedì, 23 marzo 2020 8:08:28 > Oggetto: Re: Buster without systemd? > > Marc Shapiro composed on 2020-03-22 18:21 (UTC-0700): > > > after 21 to 22 years of using > > Debian (since Bo), do I have to switch to another linux distro? > > AFAIK, no one has ever died as a consequence of using an OS with systemd. So, no, > you don't "have to" switch to another distro. You can do as most have done, fondly > or not so fondly remember sysvinit, and accept the change, whether for better or > worse. > > OTOH, would switching to Devuan really be "switching" to another distro? That's > like "switching" to any of the zillion distros based on Debian that include Debian > repos in sources.list. They're mostly Debian but with different defaults, > different far more the interface than the guts that make Debian debian. > -- > Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. > > Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! > > Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 09:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNqD8-6WE-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220294 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 06:21:56PM -0700, Marc Shapiro wrote: > Supposedly, one can install/upgrade to Buster while maintaining sysv > as init. Or has this changed. Over the past several months I have > been attempting to upgrade to Buster, but I have been completely > unsuccessful. > > Has anyone managed to upgrade to Buster without installing systemd, > or jumping through hoops that would drive a lion tamer mad? I'm currently running Buster, upgraded from Stretch. It makes sense to either raise sysv-rc or to lower systemd in your apt preferences: some more advanced installers tend to come up with creative solutions to dependency problems. Nothing that can't be managed, but... Note that if you expect some "advanced desktop stuff" things might become more difficult. > Is it possible to do what I want? Or, after 21 to 22 years of using > Debian (since Bo), do I have to switch to another linux distro? I > would rather not have to switch, but you choose the distro that > suits your needs, and if Debian no longer suits my needs then I may > have to. Less drama and more helping hands would be appreciated. There is a Debian sysvinit maintainers group who maintain the sysv-rc package. Devuan could use some help too. Drama unnecessarily burns up CPU cycles. Cheers -- tomás > > > Marc > > >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 14:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNuQp-Yv-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220294 |
There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster. That system maintained sysv and still has support. #!/usr/bin/env bash # file: getdevuan.sh - get devuan iso. wget -bc http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/minimal-live/devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_minimal-live.iso On Sun, 22 Mar 2020, Marc Shapiro wrote: > Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 21:21:56 > From: Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Buster without systemd? > Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 01:39:10 +0000 (UTC) > Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org > > Supposedly, one can install/upgrade to Buster while maintaining sysv as init.? > Or has this changed.? Over the past several months I have been attempting to > upgrade to Buster, but I have been completely unsuccessful. > > Has anyone managed to upgrade to Buster without installing systemd, or jumping > through hoops that would drive a lion tamer mad? > > I made a copy of all of my partitions so that I could do the upgrade while > maintaining Stretch in case something went wrong. I'm glad that I did! > > The first time that I tried this, I actually managed to upgrade to Buster and > have everything appear to work.? Then I realized that I had only done an > "upgrade" but not a "full-upgrade".? After that, X would not start.? I have, > as I said, spent several months trying to get X working on Buster without > systemd.? I have not been successful.? None of my later attempts ever got a > working Buster with X, at all. > > Is it possible to do what I want?? Or, after 21 to 22 years of using Debian > (since Bo), do I have to switch to another linux distro?? I would rather not > have to switch, but you choose the distro that suits your needs, and if Debian > no longer suits my needs then I may have to. > > > Marc > > > > --
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 15:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNwfw-1WS-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220312 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 08:37:47AM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote: > There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster. > That system maintained sysv and still has support. Going by [1], I'd guess Devuan ASCII is roughly Debian Stretch. More knowledgeable statements always welcome, of course. Cheers [1] https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt -- tomás
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 15:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNwyS-23C-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220312 |
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:37:47 -0400 Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote: > There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster. > That system maintained sysv and still has support. ASCII is Stretch without systemd or any of the dependencies. Devuan hasn't release its "Buster" version yet. B
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-03-23 16:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <zNwSe-2pZ-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #220316 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 07:28:25AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:37:47 -0400 > Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote: > > > There is devuan-ascii 2.x but I don't know its equivalent to buster. > > That system maintained sysv and still has support. > > ASCII is Stretch without systemd or any of the dependencies. Devuan > hasn't release its "Buster" version yet. Thanks for confirming :-) Cheers -- t
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user
csiph-web