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Groups > linux.debian.user > #219595 > unrolled thread

set gnome locales to C.UTF-8

Started byTed Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com>
First post2020-02-28 02:10 +0100
Last post2020-03-03 09:20 +0100
Articles 7 on this page of 27 — 9 participants

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  set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Ted Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 02:10 +0100
    Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-02-28 07:10 +0100
      Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 14:20 +0100
        Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Ted Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 15:30 +0100
          Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 15:40 +0100
            Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-02-28 16:30 +0100
            Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 17:10 +0100
              Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-02-28 18:40 +0100
                Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 19:00 +0100
                  Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-02-28 20:50 +0100
            Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-02-28 17:10 +0100
            Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Ted Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 17:30 +0100
              Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 17:40 +0100
              Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-02-28 21:00 +0100
                Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 21:00 +0100
                Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Shanbin Zhao <shanbin@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 21:30 +0100
    Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-02-28 07:10 +0100
      Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Ted Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 15:40 +0100
        Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-02-28 16:00 +0100
          Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Ted Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 22:20 +0100
            Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-28 22:30 +0100
              Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Ted Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com> - 2020-02-28 22:50 +0100
                Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2020-02-28 23:20 +0100
                  Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-02-29 03:30 +0100
                    Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-03-02 14:50 +0100
                      Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-03-02 19:20 +0100
                        Re: set gnome locales to C.UTF-8 Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-03-03 09:20 +0100

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#219638

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2020-02-28 22:30 +0100
Message-ID<zEVmO-7n3-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219636
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 04:10:54PM -0500, Ted Baker wrote:
> So C.UTF-8 in itself does not count as a valid locale, and I have to add
> something like en_US.UTF-8?

This is debian-user, so the answer is "it's valid in Debian".

You can tell because it shows up in the output of "locale -a".

For a more detailed answer, see
<https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17318>.

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#219639

FromTed Baker <debianbaker@gmail.com>
Date2020-02-28 22:50 +0100
Message-ID<zEVGa-7tM-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219638

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Thanks, I was referring to john doe's earlier comment "In other words, one
language needs to be selected in order to be able to choose 'none' (use
none if you access the host through SSH) or 'C.UTF-8."

And the fact that in dpkg-reconfigure locales, I didn't see the option for
C.UTF-8. If I uncheck all other locales, the ascii gui doesn't even give me
a choice to select the default locale ( I was expecting a choice between
none and C.UTF-8). In order to let the gui give me a choice in the end, I
have to choose at least one locale ( I think this is what john means as
well ).


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:25 PM Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 04:10:54PM -0500, Ted Baker wrote:
> > So C.UTF-8 in itself does not count as a valid locale, and I have to add
> > something like en_US.UTF-8?
>
> This is debian-user, so the answer is "it's valid in Debian".
>
> You can tell because it shows up in the output of "locale -a".
>
> For a more detailed answer, see
> <https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17318>.
>
>

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#219640

FromJonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>
Date2020-02-28 23:20 +0100
Message-ID<zEW9c-7Tu-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219639

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Quoting Ted Baker (2020-02-28 22:41:27)
> Thanks, I was referring to john doe's earlier comment "In other words, 
> one language needs to be selected in order to be able to choose 'none' 
> (use none if you access the host through SSH) or 'C.UTF-8."
> 
> And the fact that in dpkg-reconfigure locales, I didn't see the option 
> for C.UTF-8.

You are asked first which locales to generate, then which to use per 
default.

There's nothing to _generate_ for C.UTF-8 so you won't find it in first 
dialog, only in second.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#219641

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-02-29 03:30 +0100
Message-ID<zF037-1J0-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219640
On Fri 28 Feb 2020 at 23:19:07 (+0100), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Ted Baker (2020-02-28 22:41:27)
> > Thanks, I was referring to john doe's earlier comment "In other words, 
> > one language needs to be selected in order to be able to choose 'none' 
> > (use none if you access the host through SSH) or 'C.UTF-8."
> > 
> > And the fact that in dpkg-reconfigure locales, I didn't see the option 
> > for C.UTF-8.
> 
> You are asked first which locales to generate, then which to use per 
> default.
> 
> There's nothing to _generate_ for C.UTF-8 so you won't find it in first 
> dialog, only in second.

I couldn't quite replicate john doe's post as posted:

--✄--------

$ DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text dpkg-reconfigure locales
bash: dpkg-reconfigure: command not found
$ DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure locales
/usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure must be run as root
$ 
# DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text dpkg-reconfigure locales
Configuring locales
-------------------

Locales are a framework to switch between multiple languages and allow
users to use their language, country, characters, collation order, etc.

Please choose which locales to generate. UTF-8 locales should be
chosen by default, particularly for new installations. Other character
sets may be useful for backwards compatibility with older systems and
software.

  1. All locales          167. es_BO ISO-8859-1    333. mn_MN UTF-8
  […]
  165. es_AR ISO-8859-1   331. mk_MK.UTF-8 UTF-8   497. none of the above
  166. es_AR.UTF-8 UTF-8  332. ml_IN UTF-8

(Enter the items you want to select, separated by spaces.)

Locales to be generated: 

--✄--------

Finding item 497, I continued:

--✄--------

Locales to be generated: 497


Generating locales (this might take a while)...
Generation complete.
*** update-locale: Error: invalid locale settings:  LANG=en_US.UTF-8
# 

--✄--------

And, as a consequence of this:

--✄--------

~# locale
locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=
LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_COLLATE="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_ALL=
# 

--✄--------

Now the first question was "Please choose which locales to generate."
As it happens, I don't need to *generate* any, because I selected
en_US.UTF-8 at installation time.

So the next step was to rectify the situation:

--✄--------

# DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text dpkg-reconfigure locales
perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
        LANGUAGE = (unset),
        LC_ALL = (unset),
        LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
    are supported and installed on your system.
perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").
locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
/usr/bin/locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
/usr/bin/locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
/usr/bin/locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
Configuring locales
-------------------

Locales are a framework to switch between multiple languages and allow
users to use their language, country, characters, collation order, etc.

Please choose which locales to generate. UTF-8 locales should be
chosen by default, particularly for new installations. Other character
sets may be useful for backwards compatibility with older systems and
software.

  1. All locales          167. es_BO ISO-8859-1   333. mn_MN UTF-8
  […]
  164. eo UTF-8           330. mk_MK ISO-8859-5   496. zu_ZA.UTF-8 UTF-8
  165. es_AR ISO-8859-1   331. mk_MK.UTF-8 UTF-8
  166. es_AR.UTF-8 UTF-8  332. ml_IN UTF-8

(Enter the items you want to select, separated by spaces.)

Locales to be generated: 158


Many packages in Debian use locales to display text in the correct
language for the user. You can choose a default locale for the system
from the generated locales.

This will select the default language for the entire system. If this
system is a multi-user system where not all users are able to speak
the default language, they will experience difficulties.

  1. None  2. C.UTF-8  3. en_US.UTF-8

Default locale for the system environment: 3


Generating locales (this might take a while)...
  en_US.UTF-8... done
Generation complete.
# 

--✄--------

It seems odd to give an option 497, but then not know how to deal
with it. (The same error can be provoked in the TUI by providing
no * selection.)

The upshot is that, if you have a locale set to, say, en_US.UTF-8,
you have to run   dpkg-reconfigure locales   twice in order to
"unset" it: once to select None or C, and again to unset en_US.UTF-8.
However, it's not clear to me what the "unset"ting it actually does,
if anything. dpkg-reconfigure could be a bit clearer about what it
*does* do when it emits that error message.

BTW gnome is not installed here.

Cheers,
David.

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#219710

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2020-03-02 14:50 +0100
Message-ID<zFTCh-2OA-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219641
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 08:26:35PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> 
> Now the first question was "Please choose which locales to generate."
> As it happens, I don't need to *generate* any, because I selected
> en_US.UTF-8 at installation time.

*sigh*

When you run dpkg-reconfigure locales, you are telling it which locales
you want to HAVE ON YOUR SYSTEM.  The whole set.  All of them.

If you previously generated en_US.UTF-8, and you'd like to KEEP IT, then
you should select it (make sure it stays selected) when you run
dpkg-reconfigure locales again.

If the ONLY locale you want is en_US.UTF-8, then make sure that locale
(and no other locale) is selected when you run dpkg-reconfigure locales.

If you UNSELECT a locale that was previously selected, it will probably
delete that locale.  Maybe probably.  'Cause who the hell does that?
I've never tested it.  Why would I?  It's a dumb thing to do.

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#219722

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2020-03-02 19:20 +0100
Message-ID<zFXPz-5Bh-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219710
On Mon 02 Mar 2020 at 08:40:34 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 08:26:35PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > Now the first question was "Please choose which locales to generate."
> > As it happens, I don't need to *generate* any, because I selected
> > en_US.UTF-8 at installation time.
> 
> *sigh*

No need; all I'm doing is trying to replicate someone else's post.
For a start, I didn't see how they ran dpkg-reconfigure as a user,
but I wondered why they didn't see item 497, which might have had
something to do with running in just locale C. The only way I found
of not having 497 in the list is to have no locale set, but then
I see a slew of perl warnings and error messages not reported in
their post:

    # DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text dpkg-reconfigure locales
    perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
    perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
            LANGUAGE = (unset),
            LC_ALL = (unset),
            LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
        are supported and installed on your system.
    perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").
    locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
    locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
    locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
    /usr/bin/locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
    /usr/bin/locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
    /usr/bin/locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
    Configuring locales
    -------------------
    …

> When you run dpkg-reconfigure locales, you are telling it which locales
> you want to HAVE ON YOUR SYSTEM.  The whole set.  All of them.

I think the scope for misinterpretation comes from the language used.
(Ironic here…) "Please choose which locales to generate" focuses, for
some reason, on the process of reaching a state, rather than the state
that's to be reached. This is reinforced by two things,

  1. giving "497. none of the above"¹ as an option, and

  2. adding:

       Generating locales (this might take a while)...

     as if to say: only generate any new ones you want because
     this process is a little laborious (as it might have been
     on a 386).

Why not use language more like the d-i, along the lines of:

    "Please select all the locales that are to be made
     available in future on this system. At least one
     must be selected."

and then enforce the last sentence rather than just spitting out
error messages.¹

> If you previously generated en_US.UTF-8, and you'd like to KEEP IT, then
> you should select it (make sure it stays selected) when you run
> dpkg-reconfigure locales again.
> 
> If the ONLY locale you want is en_US.UTF-8, then make sure that locale
> (and no other locale) is selected when you run dpkg-reconfigure locales.
> 
> If you UNSELECT a locale that was previously selected, it will probably
> delete that locale.  Maybe probably.  'Cause who the hell does that?
> I've never tested it.  Why would I?  It's a dumb thing to do.

It wouldn't be "dumb" for someone who moves to another country.

No, I think my wording would eliminate any need for stating a couple
of your paragraphs above.

¹ What *is* item 497 for?

Cheers,
David.

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#219737

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2020-03-03 09:20 +0100
Message-ID<zGaWu-5pO-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#219722

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Lu, 02 mar 20, 12:11:38, David Wright wrote:
> 
> I think the scope for misinterpretation comes from the language used.
> (Ironic here…) "Please choose which locales to generate" focuses, for
> some reason, on the process of reaching a state, rather than the state
> that's to be reached. This is reinforced by two things,
> 
>   1. giving "497. none of the above"¹ as an option, and
> 
>   2. adding:
> 
>        Generating locales (this might take a while)...
> 
>      as if to say: only generate any new ones you want because
>      this process is a little laborious (as it might have been
>      on a 386).
> 
> Why not use language more like the d-i, along the lines of:
> 
>     "Please select all the locales that are to be made
>      available in future on this system. At least one
>      must be selected."
> 
> and then enforce the last sentence rather than just spitting out
> error messages.¹

Looks good to me. You could send this as a (wishlist) bug report against 
package 'locales'.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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