Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > linux.debian.user > #212344 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-08-07 07:40 +0200 |
| Last post | 2019-08-09 12:20 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 84 — 32 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 07:40 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-07 08:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 08:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Nektarios Katakis <nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> - 2019-08-07 12:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 14:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 17:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-07 17:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 17:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-07 17:40 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. ghe <ghe@slsware.net> - 2019-08-07 17:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 00:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 18:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 07:50 +0200
Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-08-08 11:00 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 12:50 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 14:10 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-08-08 16:20 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 17:00 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 17:20 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 18:00 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Judah Richardson <judahrichardson@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 21:50 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 00:50 +0200
[OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-09 10:00 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 11:20 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-09 11:50 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 12:30 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) tomas@tuxteam.de - 2019-08-09 14:40 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 15:50 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 15:50 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2019-08-09 16:00 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 16:10 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 16:10 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 17:30 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-08-09 19:00 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 18:30 +0200
Re: [OT] Helpful attitude Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-09 20:50 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-08 22:20 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-09 16:10 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) ghe <ghe@slsware.net> - 2019-08-09 08:20 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-09 09:20 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) "Bob Crochelt" <rfc56@fastmail.com> - 2019-08-09 14:00 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-09 16:20 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) "Bob Crochelt" <rfc56@fastmail.com> - 2019-08-10 00:00 +0200
Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-08 14:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-07 09:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-08-07 09:40 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 10:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 10:30 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-07 11:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 11:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 12:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-07 12:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. jochen-2019-q2@ozark.de - 2019-08-07 22:40 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 09:30 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 05:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-09 08:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 15:40 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 18:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-09 19:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 19:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-09 20:30 +0200
OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-10 10:00 +0200
Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-10 11:20 +0200
Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-10 11:30 +0200
Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-10 17:10 +0200
Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-11 00:50 +0200
Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-11 09:50 +0200
Re: OT "x times cheaper", was: Re: Server hardware advice. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-11 12:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-09 19:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-10 04:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-07 12:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-07 13:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-08-08 09:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-08-08 15:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-08 15:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-08-08 16:30 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 17:00 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-08 17:30 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-08-08 18:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> - 2019-08-08 22:50 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-08-08 23:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-08-08 23:20 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-08-09 00:10 +0200
Re: Server hardware advice. Igor Cicimov <icicimov@gmail.com> - 2019-08-09 12:20 +0200
Page 1 of 5 [1] 2 3 4 5 Next page →
| From | Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 07:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Server hardware advice. |
| Message-ID | <ysmQ1-3Sj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
Hi all, I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5 people at most. My requirements are: A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for this particular project. A gigabit ethernet port. A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to. Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and reading files from nextcloud. I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform Security Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous. So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor will be enough to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't like that it is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can handle as I understand it. Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more powerful or is there a better option I haven't read about yet? -- Steven Mainor
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 08:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysn9n-3Zx-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212344 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary focus on > security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 to 5 > people at most. > > My requirements are: > > A server setup that can be run with completely open source software and > doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed source for > this particular project. > > A gigabit ethernet port. > > A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to. > > Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server from an > encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput saving and > reading files from nextcloud. > > I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform Security > Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous. > > So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones listed > here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW > > I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor will be enough > to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't like that it > is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can handle as I > understand it. > > Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more powerful or is > there a better option I haven't read about yet? You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and openness ... https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ? Richard
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 08:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysnj3-4ix-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212345 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
You are correct. That was an oversight. Of all the items on that page I could probably afford the screwdriver and the heatsinks. I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better. -- Steven Mainor On August 7, 2019 1:52:15 AM EDT, Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> wrote: >On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a primary >focus on >> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will serve 3 >to 5 >> people at most. >> >> My requirements are: >> >> A server setup that can be run with completely open source software >and >> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything closed >source for >> this particular project. >> >> A gigabit ethernet port. >> >> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to. >> >> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail server >from an >> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput >saving and >> reading files from nextcloud. >> >> I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform >Security >> Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous. >> >> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the ones >listed >> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW >> >> I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor will >be enough >> to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't >like that it >> is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can >handle as I >> understand it. >> >> Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more >powerful or is >> there a better option I haven't read about yet? > >You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and >openness ... > >https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ? > >Richard
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nektarios Katakis <nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 12:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysrd0-6GB-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212346 |
On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 02:08:30 -0400 Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> wrote: > You are correct. That was an oversight. > > Of all the items on that page I could probably afford the screwdriver > and the heatsinks. > > I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard > drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better. -- > Steven Mainor > > On August 7, 2019 1:52:15 AM EDT, Richard Hector > <richard@walnut.gen.nz> wrote: > >On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a > >> primary > >focus on > >> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will > >> serve 3 > >to 5 > >> people at most. > >> > >> My requirements are: > >> > >> A server setup that can be run with completely open source > >> software > >and > >> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything > >> closed > >source for > >> this particular project. > >> > >> A gigabit ethernet port. > >> > >> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to. > >> > >> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail > >> server > >from an > >> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput > >saving and > >> reading files from nextcloud. > >> > >> I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform > >Security > >> Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous. > >> > >> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the > >> ones > >listed > >> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW > >> > >> I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor > >> will > >be enough > >> to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't > >like that it > >> is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can > >handle as I > >> understand it. > >> > >> Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more > >powerful or is > >> there a better option I haven't read about yet? > > > >You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and > >openness ... > > > >https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ? > > > >Richard I have a similar home setup and have to say that with the mail service and seafile server (and a few smaller services) running in docker the setup the PC is already consuming 1G of ram. I m using an old PC. I wouldnt suggest a less powerful box as you will run out of ram. If you need fanless checkout an intel nuc. Debian should run fine with it although I think it will need some drivers from the non-free repos. Regards, -- Nektarios Katakis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 14:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yssVs-7O8-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212363 |
On 2019-08-07 11:13, Nektarios Katakis wrote: > On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 02:08:30 -0400 > Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> wrote: > >> You are correct. That was an oversight. >> >> Of all the items on that page I could probably afford the screwdriver >> and the heatsinks. >> >> I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard >> drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better. -- >> Steven Mainor >> >> On August 7, 2019 1:52:15 AM EDT, Richard Hector >> <richard@walnut.gen.nz> wrote: >> >On 7/08/19 5:29 PM, Steven Mainor wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I'm looking for advice on how to build a home server with a >> >> primary >> >focus on >> >> security. I plan to run nextcloud and a mail server that will >> >> serve 3 >> >to 5 >> >> people at most. >> >> >> >> My requirements are: >> >> >> >> A server setup that can be run with completely open source >> >> software >> >and >> >> doesn't require any binaries to boot. I don't trust anything >> >> closed >> >source for >> >> this particular project. >> >> >> >> A gigabit ethernet port. >> >> >> >> A USB3.0 port or SATA connector to attach storage to. >> >> >> >> Enough processor power and ram to run nextcloud and the mail >> >> server >> >from an >> >> encrypted hard drive (LUKS) efficiently with moderate throughput >> >saving and >> >> reading files from nextcloud. >> >> >> >> I would just build something x86 based but the amd/intel Platform >> >Security >> >> Processor/IME stuff makes me nervous. >> >> >> >> So far I have been looking at single board computers like the >> >> ones >> >listed >> >> here: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#OSHW >> >> >> >> I like the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but I am not sure the processor >> >> will >> >be enough >> >> to handle the overhead from an encrypted hard drive. I also don't >> >like that it >> >> is only 32-bit since that will limit the file size nextcloud can >> >handle as I >> >> understand it. >> >> >> >> Is there anything similar to the OLinuXino A20 LIME2 but more >> >powerful or is >> >> there a better option I haven't read about yet? >> > >> >You haven't mentioned a budget, but strong emphasis on security and >> >openness ... >> > >> >https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/ ? >> > >> >Richard > > I have a similar home setup and have to say that with the mail service > and seafile server (and a few smaller services) running in docker the > setup the PC is already consuming 1G of ram. I m using an old PC. I > wouldnt suggest a less powerful box as you will run out of ram. > If you need fanless checkout an intel nuc. Debian should run fine with > it although I think it will need some drivers from the non-free repos. > > Regards, I use old Lenovos which are quiet and so cheap (20UKP)you can have one for each job. Don't bother with cloud but scp files about. Don't know how the webmail would manage with multiple connections. mick -- Key ID 4BFEBB31
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysvzX-MT-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212346 |
Steven Mainor wrote: > I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard drive(s) > I already have drives. Less is better. When I read server hardware I understand also server hardware. It has many CPUs a lot of ram, redundant power supply etc. It consumes a lot of power and costs a lot. For under 500 you can not get any of this and for your use case you do not need this as well. Years ago I build one to serve our needs at home. It has 4 virtual CPU and 32GB RAM - it uses 85Watt of power when not under load and it goes to above 100 if I compile software on it. It uses 10Watt more if I run a virtual machine (virtual box or vmware - I do not test containers, but I assume this will add overhead). The disks (I have 8) use also 3-5Watt each. Buying newer - larger disks, pays off, but it is insignificant what you save on power per year, most is burned by the CPU, so choose CPU and mainboard carefully. Unless you do not have to, avoid virtualization - it costs more energy. I hope this helps
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 17:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysvJD-15P-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212370 |
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 04:53:52PM +0200, deloptes wrote: >Years ago I build one to serve our needs at home. It has 4 virtual CPU and >32GB RAM - it uses 85Watt of power when not under load and it goes to above >100 if I compile software on it. It uses 10Watt more if I run a virtual >machine (virtual box or vmware - I do not test containers, but I assume >this will add overhead). Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 17:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysvTk-19f-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212371 |
Michael Stone wrote: > Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very > little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by > using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's > new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.) I am not sure who you are answering to. I recently looked at HP DL360 and DL380 Gen10. Yes indeed they are more power efficient compared to Gen9 in terms they provide more calculation cycles for the same power, but this can not be compared to a PC.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 17:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yswcF-1g7-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212372 |
On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 05:12:20PM +0200, deloptes wrote: >Michael Stone wrote: >> Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very >> little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by >> using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's >> new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.) > >I am not sure who you are answering to. What's confusing about the attribution and text that I quoted? >I recently looked at HP DL360 and >DL380 Gen10. Yes indeed they are more power efficient compared to Gen9 in >terms they provide more calculation cycles for the same power, but this can >not be compared to a PC. HP g9 and g10 are both well past the dawn of the era of low idle consumption so there aren't huge differences to be found there. The base power consumption of that class of system is rather higher than a small desktop primarily because of redundancy and BMC (IPMI/remote management)--not the CPU. A different server chassis & motherboard choice will result in much lower base consumption, if the redundancy and remote management aren't needed. But even the HP DLs of the g9/g10 era can idle at around half the 85W you mentioned. (Whereas a comparable g6 might have idled over 100W, and even older servers idled at 300 or 400W.) The point is that it's not correct to assume that a "server" will have a high idle consumption, and if power efficiency is a goal it's achievable through reasonable selection of components. (Conversely, a "desktop" may have higher power consumption if it has a beefy GPU, and older desktops have much higher idle power just like older servers.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | ghe <ghe@slsware.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 17:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yswml-1jK-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212372 |
Depends on what you're trying to do. I run a small domain on a T1 without pictures or audio, so I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3 as a server. Quite a bit faster than the old PDP-11s the 'Net started out with, and significantly less expensive. And smaller. My domain used to be a lot larger, but still a T1 and very little video/audio. I used the bottom-of-the-line Dell servers back then, and bought my own RAM (Dell gets a lot for a RAM stick). The biggest advantage to the Dell servers, aside from the reliability of the components (over 15 years, I never had one fail), was that they could be bought without the Windows tax. If you're looking to do a full blown Google level server on a 10G connection, advice there is above my pay scale... -- Glenn English
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 00:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysCrL-5fY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212372 |
On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 17:12:20 +0200 deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: > Michael Stone wrote: > > > Newer server hardware is much more power efficient and will draw very > > little power when idle. This is one of the drawbacks to saving money by > > using old hardware. (You can still use old hardware, just be sure it's > > new enough that it's from the era when power efficiency became a thing.) > > I am not sure who you are answering to. I recently looked at HP DL360 and > DL380 Gen10. Yes indeed they are more power efficient compared to Gen9 in > terms they provide more calculation cycles for the same power, but this can > not be compared to a PC. This sort of stuff is discussed endlessly on the homelab subreddit, but for some personal data points: I run Debian on a Dell R210 II, with 1 CPU with 4 cores / 8 threads and 16GB of RAM, and a single HDD: the thing idles at about 23 watts. A Windows 10 VM (KVM / libvirt) adds about 5-7 watts, but a Debian Sid VM adds nothing. [Of course, the Debian VM is a fairly minimal thing, with under 400 packages installed, while the Windows installation is a pretty standard one.] Celejar
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Steven Mainor <steve@degga.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-07 18:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysxiq-1TU-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212370 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
I would say a server is any piece of software or hardware that serves data to other devices. I have run an apache2/mariadb/php server from an old laptop with a headless LTS Linux for over two years without issue. Surely you aren't saying only a rack mounted 64 core monstrosity with a TB of ram is qualified to be called a "server" For my needs, I doubt anything more than a modern single board computer is necessary. At least as far as compute power is concerned. -- Steven Mainor On August 7, 2019 10:53:52 AM EDT, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: Steven Mainor wrote: I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard drive(s) I already have drives. Less is better. When I read server hardware I understand also server hardware. It has many CPUs a lot of ram, redundant power supply etc. It consumes a lot of power and costs a lot. For under 500 you can not get any of this and for your use case you do not need this as well. Years ago I build one to serve our needs at home. It has 4 virtual CPU and 32GB RAM - it uses 85Watt of power when not under load and it goes to above 100 if I compile software on it. It uses 10Watt more if I run a virtual machine (virtual box or vmware - I do not test containers, but I assume this will add overhead). The disks (I have 8) use also 3-5Watt each. Buying newer - larger disks, pays off, but it is insignificant what you save on power per year, most is burned by the CPU, so choose CPU and mainboard carefully. Unless you do not have to, avoid virtualization - it costs more energy. I hope this helps -- Steven Mainor On August 7, 2019 10:53:52 AM EDT, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: >Steven Mainor wrote: > >> I would like to keep the budget under $500 not including the hard >drive(s) >> I already have drives. Less is better. > >When I read server hardware I understand also server hardware. It has >many >CPUs a lot of ram, redundant power supply etc. It consumes a lot of >power >and costs a lot. >For under 500 you can not get any of this and for your use case you do >not >need this as well. > >Years ago I build one to serve our needs at home. It has 4 virtual CPU >and >32GB RAM - it uses 85Watt of power when not under load and it goes to >above >100 if I compile software on it. It uses 10Watt more if I run a virtual >machine (virtual box or vmware - I do not test containers, but I assume >this will add overhead). The disks (I have 8) use also 3-5Watt each. >Buying >newer - larger disks, pays off, but it is insignificant what you save >on >power per year, most is burned by the CPU, so choose CPU and mainboard >carefully. >Unless you do not have to, avoid virtualization - it costs more energy. > >I hope this helps
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 07:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ysJtg-1bx-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212379 |
Steven Mainor wrote:
> I would say a server is any piece of software or hardware that serves data
> to other devices.
>
Well strictly speaking two different things are referred as server:
hardware
software
In your case you are talking about buying hardware - correct? And if you
intend to use a PC, than the correct wording for this would be
A second hand PC that will be used as a home server.
> I have run an apache2/mariadb/php server from an old laptop with a
> headless LTS Linux for over two years without issue.
>
> Surely you aren't saying only a rack mounted 64 core monstrosity with a TB
> of ram is qualified to be called a "server"
>
On hardware level - yes. Any PC can be used as a server, but it is still not
a server from HW POV. There are many many technical details that make the
difference, like memory channels, caches etc.
> For my needs, I doubt anything more than a modern single board computer is
> necessary. At least as far as compute power is concerned.
Yes any modern PC would work. What was suggested that you take one with
enough CPU and RAM. I think today one could get 4-8 CPUs with 16-32GB of
RAM at a fair price.
Do not underestimate the disks. I had a terrible experience with PC style
drives. Take NAS style harddrives like the WD Red. You really want to use
RAID there and all other drives I have been using in the past had to be
replaced either because they failed or because the latency was
unacceptable. I had Seagate Baraccuda, WD Green and WD Blue. A fellow sys
admin told me they use WD Red and indeed the 2TB WD Red are very reliable,
but not the bigger once - amazing what one should know. So I replaced all
the drives over the years with WD Red 2TB. I use RAID1.
I build a backup server recently out of older Intel DG45FC board I bought
with CPU for ~100,- some years ago, gain with WD Red 2TB in RAID5, so that
there is 6TB now.
What I want to say is that not every fairly modern PC works, because you
want to attach at least two disks to build a RAID - the more SATA
connectors you have - the better.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 11:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysMr7-317-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212402 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
deloptes (12019-08-08): > Well strictly speaking two different things are referred as server: <snip> I have observed that contributors on this mailing-list have a tendency to fall in two categories: - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order to reply in the most helpful manner ; - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order to find imprecisions and then forcefully educate them. Regards, -- Nicolas George
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 12:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysO9A-486-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212412 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 4:50 AM Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote: > deloptes (12019-08-08): > > Well strictly speaking two different things are referred as server: > <snip> > > I have observed that contributors on this mailing-list have a tendency > to fall in two categories: > > - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order to > reply in the most helpful manner ; > > - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order to > find imprecisions and then forcefully educate them. I get forcefully educated quite a bit, by being on this email list. But, in my opinion, Servers can look like, just about anything. For a few months, I actually ran a Netbook as a Web, and Email Server, under an old Ubuntu release. Kept it plugged in all the time, which worked against me, due to Battery issues, but that's another story. I also hear stories about people, using Raspberry Pi Systems as Servers. Oh well. Best regards, Kenneth Parker > >
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 14:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysPoZ-545-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212419 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Quoting Kenneth Parker (2019-08-08 12:39:35) > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 4:50 AM Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote: > > > deloptes (12019-08-08): > > > Well strictly speaking two different things are referred as > > > server: > > <snip> > > > > I have observed that contributors on this mailing-list have a > > tendency to fall in two categories: > > > > - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order > > to reply in the most helpful manner ; > > > > - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order > > to find imprecisions and then forcefully educate them. > > > I get forcefully educated quite a bit, by being on this email list. > > But, in my opinion, Servers can look like, just about anything. I think you are missing the point: When someone asks a question on this list, then that someone gets to decide what the question is. Question was not "please advice on buying what you consider a server" but "please advice on buying what original poster considers a server". Feel free to take inspiration from a post to talk about something else - but don't steal the thread! Instead do as Nicolas did here and rename subject field to clearly indicate that you are changing topic! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 16:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysRqN-6hp-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212424 |
Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Kenneth Parker (2019-08-08 12:39:35) > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 4:50 AM Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote: > > > > > deloptes (12019-08-08): > > > > Well strictly speaking two different things are referred as > > > > server: > > > <snip> > > > > > > I have observed that contributors on this mailing-list have a > > > tendency to fall in two categories: > > > > > > - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order > > > to reply in the most helpful manner ; > > > > > > - those who try to understand what the original poster says in order > > > to find imprecisions and then forcefully educate them. > > > > > > I get forcefully educated quite a bit, by being on this email list. > > > > But, in my opinion, Servers can look like, just about anything. > > I think you are missing the point: When someone asks a question on this > list, then that someone gets to decide what the question is. Sure. But they also bear the burden of communicating precisely what it is that they are asking for, and accepting that some responses will offer advice rather than answers. Some of that advice is even valuable! > Question was not "please advice on buying what you consider a server" > but "please advice on buying what original poster considers a server". A bit of elucidation was in order, since to many people "server hardware" means "suitable for use in a datacenter: rackmountable, space-efficient, high-powered, hotswap drives..." whereas a Raspberry Pi is also a server when you treat it as one. Asking clarifying questions is a good thing. -dsr-
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 17:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysS3x-6w2-55@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212442 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Quoting Dan Ritter (2019-08-08 16:19:37) > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Question was not "please advice on buying what you consider a > > server" but "please advice on buying what original poster considers > > a server". > > A bit of elucidation was in order, since to many people "server > hardware" means "suitable for use in a datacenter: rackmountable, > space-efficient, high-powered, hotswap drives..." whereas a Raspberry > Pi is also a server when you treat it as one. The original poster quite clearly talked about disliking x86 hardware and already looking at a list of SBCs. > Asking clarifying questions is a good thing. Indeed. Reading the whole initial post (not only first half) is good too ;-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 17:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysSmS-6Su-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212447 |
Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Indeed. > > Reading the whole initial post (not only first half) is good too ;-) But please, I tried to make the statement more precise, cause the first half contradicts the second. Of course you could use any hardware that runs linux as a server, but putting those demands together, seems the guy is looking in the wrong direction. If you put together miserable hardware, you get miserable results. And you can not call this a server. You can use it _as_ a server - I was missing "as". Perhaps I was too picky, but no one knows what OPs state of knowledge and experience is. And in general in one discussion everybody can put forward any statement or question. No one is forced to answer.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-08 18:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Helpful attitude (was: Server hardware advice.) |
| Message-ID | <ysSZA-763-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #212448 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Quoting deloptes (2019-08-08 17:13:03) > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Reading the whole initial post (not only first half) is good too ;-) > > But please, I tried to make the statement more precise, cause the > first half contradicts the second. Of course you could use any > hardware that runs linux as a server, but putting those demands > together, seems the guy is looking in the wrong direction. If you put > together miserable hardware, you get miserable results. And you can > not call this a server. You can use it _as_ a server - I was missing > "as". Perhaps I was too picky, but no one knows what OPs state of > knowledge and experience is. Let's for the sake of discussion assume that the initial post was totally incomprehensible to you. You then asked for clarification - makes good sense. And asking in the style of "When I read server hardware I understand..." makes good sense as well. ...but then the OP responded and explicitly clarifies to you what his understanding of "server hardware" is, it no longer makes sense to ...but when the OP responds with "I would say a server is any piece of software or hardware that serves data to other devices" you got your clarification! >From that point on it no longer makes sense to insist - in same thread - on a different interpretation: Topic is a request for help, and you are frankly not helping with what was asked. You might theoretically be helping millions of others reading along who appreciate your continued inout about a derived subject - but it is more sensible to me, and more visible to those who want that help, if you change the subject line to match your derived topic. > And in general in one discussion everybody can put forward any > statement or question. No one is forced to answer. Anyone can do anything. Not all is sensible, however. Possibly taking the time to write this email is not sensible - time will tell... - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 1 of 5 [1] 2 3 4 5 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user
csiph-web