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odd passwd problem.

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  odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-01 12:30 +0200
    Re: odd passwd problem. Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 14:10 +0200
      Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-01 23:00 +0200
        Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 15:50 +0200
          Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 16:20 +0200
    Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-01 15:50 +0200
      Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-01 23:00 +0200
    Re: odd passwd problem. Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 16:30 +0200
      Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-01 23:00 +0200
        Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 04:50 +0200
          Re: odd passwd problem. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-03 10:00 +0200
            Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 11:30 +0200
              Re: odd passwd problem. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-03 12:00 +0200
                Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 12:30 +0200
                  Re: odd passwd problem. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-03 13:00 +0200
                    Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 15:50 +0200
              Re: odd passwd problem. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-08-04 10:10 +0200
            Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 12:20 +0200
          Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 16:10 +0200
            Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 16:40 +0200
              Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:10 +0200
                Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 17:40 +0200
                  Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 18:00 +0200
                    Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 18:40 +0200
                      Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 20:50 +0200
                        Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 22:40 +0200
              Re: odd passwd problem. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-03 20:10 +0200
    Re: odd passwd problem. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 13:10 +0200
      Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 16:00 +0200
        Re: odd passwd problem. Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 16:20 +0200
          Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 16:50 +0200
            Re: odd passwd problem. Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-04 09:10 +0200
              Re: odd passwd problem. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-04 17:50 +0200
                Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-04 18:10 +0200
        Re: odd passwd problem. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 16:40 +0200
          Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 17:40 +0200
            Re: odd passwd problem. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 17:50 +0200
              Re: odd passwd problem. Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-03 18:30 +0200
                Re: odd passwd problem. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 18:40 +0200

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#212193

On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > > > > > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > > > > > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > > workspaces.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups".
> > > > > > reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB
> > > > > > ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and
> > > > > > powered up again. Can't login, passwd no good.  Dbl check,
> > > > > > caps lock off, try again several times, passwd no good.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess
> > > > > with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing
> > > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > >
> > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > > password is not logged ;)
> > > >
> > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > >
> > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> >
> > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote my
> > first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM to
> > an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I don't
> > know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
> >
> A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.

Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do for you?

I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.

> > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds.
> > > Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to the new
> > > method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted with the
> > > older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the old method,
> > > so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might be fixed by an
> > > apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
> >
> > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here, and the 
> shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.

That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could have
been chosen.

> > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > >
> > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [46.8
> > > kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main
> > > arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main
> > > Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > Building dependency tree
> > > Reading state information... Done
> > > All packages are up to date.
> > > gene@picnc:~$
> > >
> > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> >
> > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> 
> but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights for 
> kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to someplace 
> neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me, specifically denies 
> root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to someplace in /home/gene 
> on this machine, then I can attach or include it.

I don't understand any of that.

$ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
$ 

But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
as you just did, above, for apt update.

> > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught
> > > up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times,
> > > then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login
> > > worked, I backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but
> > > is still rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ??
> > > What library does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but
> > > got miss installed?
> >
> > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> >
> > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like LUKS1/LUKS2
> > rather than any change in passwd hashing (which might be why you wrote
> > "encrypting").
> 
> Never touched LUKS, any version.

In which case, can you quote your reference for where said person
mentioned it.

Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
*heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd passwords.
I can recall things being written about VM here, but was it Virtual
Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not having used any VM, my memory
doesn't distinguish between them.

Cheers,
David.

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#212197

On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I
> > > > > > > was selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was
> > > > > > > to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > > > workspaces.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged
> > > > > > > in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll
> > > > > > > need later and powered up again. Can't login, passwd no
> > > > > > > good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several times,
> > > > > > > passwd no good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to
> > > > > > mess with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try
> > > > > > removing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > > > password is not logged ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > > >
> > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > >
> > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote
> > > my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM
> > > to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I
> > > don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
> >
> > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
>
> Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do for
> you?
>
> I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
>
> > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to
> > > > the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted
> > > > with the older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the
> > > > old method, so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might
> > > > be fixed by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to
> > > > upgrade:
> > >
> > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> >
> > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here,
> > and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.
>
> That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could have
> been chosen.
>
> > > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > > >
> > > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > > > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
> > > > [46.8 kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > buster/updates/main arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > buster/updates/main Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > > Building dependency tree
> > > > Reading state information... Done
> > > > All packages are up to date.
> > > > gene@picnc:~$
> > > >
> > > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> > >
> > > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> >
> > but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights
> > for kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to
> > someplace neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me,
> > specifically denies root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to
> > someplace in /home/gene on this machine, then I can attach or
> > include it.
>
> I don't understand any of that.
>
> $ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
> $
>
> But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
> as you just did, above, for apt update.
>
> > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not
> > > > caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work
> > > > several times, then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from
> > > > this ssh login worked, I backed out and tried it, worked as
> > > > expected from ssh, but is still rejected from its own keyboard,
> > > > so I changed it back. ?? What library does that? Is there a
> > > > version jump that arm did, but got miss installed?
> > >
> > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > >
> > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing (which might
> > > be why you wrote "encrypting").
> >
> > Never touched LUKS, any version.
>
> In which case, can you quote your reference for where said person
> mentioned it.
>
> Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd passwords.
> I can recall things being written about VM here, but was it Virtual
> Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not having used any VM, my memory
> doesn't distinguish between them.
>
> Cheers,
> David.

LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years. However  I 
just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit out this:
oot@picnc:~# locate luks
/boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
/usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod

Could one of those be screwing with me?

Cheers David, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212201

On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I
> > > > > > > > was selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was
> > > > > > > > to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > > > > workspaces.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged
> > > > > > > > in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll
> > > > > > > > need later and powered up again. Can't login, passwd no
> > > > > > > > good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several times,
> > > > > > > > passwd no good.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to
> > > > > > > mess with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try
> > > > > > > removing it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > > > > password is not logged ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote
> > > > my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM
> > > > to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I
> > > > don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
> > >
> > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> >
> > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do for
> > you?
> >
> > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> >
> > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to
> > > > > the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted
> > > > > with the older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the
> > > > > old method, so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might
> > > > > be fixed by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to
> > > > > upgrade:
> > > >
> > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > >
> > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here,
> > > and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.
> >
> > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could have
> > been chosen.
> >
> > > > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > > > >
> > > > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > > > > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
> > > > > [46.8 kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > buster/updates/main arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > buster/updates/main Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > > > Building dependency tree
> > > > > Reading state information... Done
> > > > > All packages are up to date.
> > > > > gene@picnc:~$
> > > > >
> > > > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> > > >
> > > > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> > >
> > > but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights
> > > for kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to
> > > someplace neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me,
> > > specifically denies root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to
> > > someplace in /home/gene on this machine, then I can attach or
> > > include it.
> >
> > I don't understand any of that.
> >
> > $ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
> > $
> >
> > But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
> > as you just did, above, for apt update.
> >
> > > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not
> > > > > caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work
> > > > > several times, then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from
> > > > > this ssh login worked, I backed out and tried it, worked as
> > > > > expected from ssh, but is still rejected from its own keyboard,
> > > > > so I changed it back. ?? What library does that? Is there a
> > > > > version jump that arm did, but got miss installed?
> > > >
> > > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > > >
> > > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing (which might
> > > > be why you wrote "encrypting").
> > >
> > > Never touched LUKS, any version.
> >
> > In which case, can you quote your reference for where said person
> > mentioned it.
> >
> > Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> > *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd passwords.
> > I can recall things being written about VM here, but was it Virtual
> > Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not having used any VM, my memory
> > doesn't distinguish between them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> 
> LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years. However  I 
> just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit out this:
> oot@picnc:~# locate luks
> /boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> /boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> /usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> 
> Could one of those be screwing with me?

No. I'm trying to eliminate LUKS from the conversation. What would be
more useful is to discover what you were talking about when you wrote
"Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds."
Or am I to spike it, along with
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg00208.html
and suchlike.

Cheers,
David.

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#212208

On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:56:38 David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I
> > > > > > > > > thought I was selecting xfce4, so my first action on
> > > > > > > > > the reboot was to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot,
> > > > > > > > > works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I
> > > > > > > > > plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff
> > > > > > > > > on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > > > > > > > > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try
> > > > > > > > > again several times, passwd no good.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current
> > > > > > > > to mess with your keyboard. As already suggested, you
> > > > > > > > could try removing it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could
> > > > > > > > try typing your password in the username field, to make
> > > > > > > > sure the keyboard works as expected. Just don't press
> > > > > > > > enter so the password is not logged ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I
> > > > > wrote my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert
> > > > > from a DM to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about
> > > > > DEs that I don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy
> > > > > you?
> > > >
> > > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > >
> > > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do
> > > for you?
> > >
> > > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> > >
> > > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed
> > > > > > to the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was
> > > > > > encrypted with the older method, and that an ssh login is
> > > > > > still useing the old method, so I can login remotely only?
> > > > > > So possibly it might be fixed by an apt update/upgrade?
> > > > > > Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
> > > > >
> > > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > > >
> > > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines
> > > > here, and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4
> > > > machines.
> > >
> > > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could
> > > have been chosen.
> > >
> > > > > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > > > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > > > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > > > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > > > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
> > > > > > [46.8 kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > > > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates/main arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > > > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates/main Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > > > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > > > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > > > > Building dependency tree
> > > > > > Reading state information... Done
> > > > > > All packages are up to date.
> > > > > > gene@picnc:~$
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> > > > >
> > > > > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> > > >
> > > > but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the
> > > > rights for kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy
> > > > them to someplace neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as
> > > > me, specifically denies root, so once I can copy it across the
> > > > cat5 to someplace in /home/gene on this machine, then I can
> > > > attach or include it.
> > >
> > > I don't understand any of that.
> > >
> > > $ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
> > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
> > > $
> > >
> > > But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
> > > as you just did, above, for apt update.
> > >
> > > > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not
> > > > > > caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work
> > > > > > several times, then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd
> > > > > > from this ssh login worked, I backed out and tried it,
> > > > > > worked as expected from ssh, but is still rejected from its
> > > > > > own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What library does
> > > > > > that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got miss
> > > > > > installed?
> > > > >
> > > > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > > > >
> > > > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing (which
> > > > > might be why you wrote "encrypting").
> > > >
> > > > Never touched LUKS, any version.
> > >
> > > In which case, can you quote your reference for where said person
> > > mentioned it.
> > >
> > > Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> > > *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd
> > > passwords. I can recall things being written about VM here, but
> > > was it Virtual Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not having used
> > > any VM, my memory doesn't distinguish between them.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > David.
> >
> > LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years. However
> >  I just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit out this:
> > oot@picnc:~# locate luks
> > /boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > /boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > /usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> >
> > Could one of those be screwing with me?
>
> No. I'm trying to eliminate LUKS from the conversation. What would be
> more useful is to discover what you were talking about when you wrote
> "Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds."
> Or am I to spike it, along with
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg00208.html
> and suchlike.
>
Whats procmail to do with this? I was commenting there because I AM using 
procmail for my fetchmails MTA.  Have been since about 2002 since kmail 
freezes during a new mail scan. So I took that job away from it by 
letting fetchmail get the mail, procmail to filter, and inotifywait to 
tell kmail over the dbus, to go get the mail from /var/mail. It can do 
that in a small fraction of a second per incoming msg.


> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers David, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212212

On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 12:32:39 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:56:38 David Wright wrote:
> > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I
> > > > > > > > > > thought I was selecting xfce4, so my first action on
> > > > > > > > > > the reboot was to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot,
> > > > > > > > > > works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I
> > > > > > > > > > plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff
> > > > > > > > > > on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > > > > > > > > > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try
> > > > > > > > > > again several times, passwd no good.
[…]
> > > > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I
> > > > > > wrote my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert
> > > > > > from a DM to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about
> > > > > > DEs that I don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy
> > > > > > you?
> > > > >
> > > > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do
> > > > for you?
> > > >
> > > > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> > > >
> > > > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed
> > > > > > > to the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was
> > > > > > > encrypted with the older method, and that an ssh login is
> > > > > > > still useing the old method, so I can login remotely only?
> > > > > > > So possibly it might be fixed by an apt update/upgrade?
> > > > > > > Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > > > >
> > > > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines
> > > > > here, and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4
> > > > > machines.
> > > >
> > > > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could
> > > > have been chosen.
[…]
> > > > > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not
> > > > > > > caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work
> > > > > > > several times, then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd
> > > > > > > from this ssh login worked, I backed out and tried it,
> > > > > > > worked as expected from ssh, but is still rejected from its
> > > > > > > own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What library does
> > > > > > > that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got miss
> > > > > > > installed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > > > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing (which
> > > > > > might be why you wrote "encrypting").
> > > > >
> > > > > Never touched LUKS, any version.
> > > >
> > > > In which case, can you quote your reference for where said person
> > > > mentioned it.
> > > >
> > > > Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> > > > *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd
> > > > passwords. I can recall things being written about VM here, but
> > > > was it Virtual Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not having used
> > > > any VM, my memory doesn't distinguish between them.
> > >
> > > LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years. However
> > >  I just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit out this:
> > > oot@picnc:~# locate luks
> > > /boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > /boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > /usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > >
> > > Could one of those be screwing with me?
> >
> > No. I'm trying to eliminate LUKS from the conversation. What would be
> > more useful is to discover what you were talking about when you wrote
> > "Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds."
> > Or am I to spike it, along with
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg00208.html
> > and suchlike.
> >
> Whats procmail to do with this?

Nothing. What I spiked was the headline,
"procmail, when were the last rights administered?",
just as I spiked
"4 printer limit to cups printers is a debian limit, why?".

Understand, I was trying to find an explanation for your statement
"Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds"
in the absence of any response as to where you got this fact[oid]
from. It's not important.

OTOH I have tried to find out whether and why it's necessary for
you to run a DM to start your (presumably necessary) DE, but you
don't seem to want to go there. Were I a DE user, I'd make a
more concrete suggestion. As it is, I can only refer you to the
3rd and 4th paragraphs of Description in man startx.

Cheers,
David.

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#212216

On Saturday 03 August 2019 14:45:46 David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 12:32:39 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:56:38 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU 
wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo
> > > > > > > > > > > now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I
> > > > > > > > > > > thought I was selecting xfce4, so my first action
> > > > > > > > > > > on the reboot was to "sudo apt install xfce4".
> > > > > > > > > > > reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and
> > > > > > > > > > > buildbot, cups". reboot, worked once, login
> > > > > > > > > > > normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > > > > > > > > > > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and
> > > > > > > > > > > powered up again. Can't login, passwd no good. 
> > > > > > > > > > > Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several times,
> > > > > > > > > > > passwd no good.
>
> […]
>
> > > > > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I
> > > > > > > wrote my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you
> > > > > > > revert from a DM to an ordinary VC login. But I know so
> > > > > > > little about DEs that I don't know if that's possible.
> > > > > > > What does a DM buy you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM
> > > > > do for you?
> > > > >
> > > > > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of
> > > > > > > > encrypting passwds. Is it possible that something in
> > > > > > > > xfce4 has changed to the new method, but the passwd in
> > > > > > > > the passwd file was encrypted with the older method, and
> > > > > > > > that an ssh login is still useing the old method, so I
> > > > > > > > can login remotely only? So possibly it might be fixed
> > > > > > > > by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to
> > > > > > > > upgrade:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines
> > > > > > here, and the shadow files entry for me is different on all
> > > > > > 4 machines.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that
> > > > > could have been chosen.
>
> […]
>
> > > > > > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has
> > > > > > > > not caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it
> > > > > > > > did work several times, then stopped.  Completely
> > > > > > > > changing my passwd from this ssh login worked, I backed
> > > > > > > > out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is
> > > > > > > > still rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it
> > > > > > > > back. ?? What library does that? Is there a version jump
> > > > > > > > that arm did, but got miss installed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > > > > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing
> > > > > > > (which might be why you wrote "encrypting").
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Never touched LUKS, any version.
> > > > >
> > > > > In which case, can you quote your reference for where said
> > > > > person mentioned it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> > > > > *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd
> > > > > passwords. I can recall things being written about VM here,
> > > > > but was it Virtual Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not
> > > > > having used any VM, my memory doesn't distinguish between
> > > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years.
> > > > However I just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit
> > > > out this: oot@picnc:~# locate luks
> > > > /boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > > /boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > > /usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > >
> > > > Could one of those be screwing with me?
> > >
> > > No. I'm trying to eliminate LUKS from the conversation. What would
> > > be more useful is to discover what you were talking about when you
> > > wrote "Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > passwds." Or am I to spike it, along with
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/03/msg00208.html
> > > and suchlike.
> >
> > Whats procmail to do with this?
>
> Nothing. What I spiked was the headline,
> "procmail, when were the last rights administered?",
> just as I spiked
> "4 printer limit to cups printers is a debian limit, why?".
>
> Understand, I was trying to find an explanation for your statement
> "Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds"
> in the absence of any response as to where you got this fact[oid]
> from. It's not important.
>
> OTOH I have tried to find out whether and why it's necessary for
> you to run a DM to start your (presumably necessary) DE, but you
> don't seem to want to go there. Were I a DE user, I'd make a
> more concrete suggestion. As it is, I can only refer you to the
> 3rd and 4th paragraphs of Description in man startx.
>
Which, since I've not had to run startx in at least 10 years, will take 
some studying to get it right. Up to now, the DM of the week has always 
started X.

Now some additional data. I've made several xset attempts to kill both 
dpms and the blanker, without the expected success. However if I think 
in terms  of blanker, I note the konsoles it hides by blanking the 
screen, are still there if I can get the pw to work.

What sort of a clue is that?, and how can I disable dpms since it appears 
that xset -dpms per the man page is ignored.                                                                                     
> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers David, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212210

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Aug 03, 2019 at 10:32:02AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:

[...]

> > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.

Yep. In theory, there's no "way back" from the hash to the
password. In practice, though...

> And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here, and the 
> shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.

That's the salt. To make "reverse lookup" attacks more difficult
for "typical" passwords, some salt is added: a small random prefix,
which is typically included in the hashed password info (it better
had, otherwise you can't check the password)

Here's a typical shadow entry (somewhat modified and very much
shortened, to protect the innocent ;-)

  username:$6$lU7moTub$AmalgHken:18080:0:99999:7:::
     ^      ^ ----^--- ----^----
     |      |     |        |      other stuff
     |      |     |        hash of (salt + password) (here shortened)
     |      |     salt
     |      hash algorithm (6 = sha512)
     user name

See man crypt(3) for details (the crypt chapter in libc's info is more
informative). The actual representation as characters is most probably
base64 encoded.

In short, yes, assuming your random number generator isn't broken,
you'll get a different salt every round and thus a different password
hash. So we hope :-)

Cheers
-- tomás

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#212178

On 2019-08-01 11:28, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> 
> No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> 
> netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was selecting
> xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> 
> Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> times, passwd no good.
> 
> Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
> running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
> passwd fails.
> 
> Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo -i
> works.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on 
the local machine.

mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#212185

On Saturday 03 August 2019 07:08:08 mick crane wrote:

> On 2019-08-01 11:28, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> >
> > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> >
> > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> >
> > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> > worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> > times, passwd no good.
> >
> > Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
> > running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
> > passwd fails.
> >
> > Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo
> > -i works.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on
> the local machine.
>
> mick

I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda who is 
a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use 
that as a guinea pig.
Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:

gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
[sudo] password for gene:
adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
gene@picnc:~$                          

WTH?

Thanks Mick Crane.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212188

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On Sb, 03 aug 19, 09:57:27, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 07:08:08 mick crane wrote:
> >
> > I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on
> > the local machine.
> 
> I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda who is 
> a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use 
> that as a guinea pig.

I wouldn't mess with users needed by packages. Why not just create a 
'test' user or something?

> Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> 
> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> [sudo] password for gene:
> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> gene@picnc:~$                          

I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#212191

On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:12:59 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Sb, 03 aug 19, 09:57:27, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 07:08:08 mick crane wrote:
> > > I would probably add another user and see if they have same
> > > problem on the local machine.
> >
> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> > who is a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So
> > I'll use that as a guinea pig.
>
> I wouldn't mess with users needed by packages. Why not just create a
> 'test' user or something?
>
> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> >
> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> > [sudo] password for gene:
> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> > gene@picnc:~$
>
> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
>
Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked the 
only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!

So I repeated from here, adding a "test" user, went out and tried it 
there, worked, once, now we wait 15 minutes to see if it times out.
test of course doesn't have sudo rights, so is of questionable utility.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei
Thanks Andrei

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212220

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On 4/08/19 2:46 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
>>> [sudo] password for gene:
>>> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
>>> gene@picnc:~$
>> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
>>
> Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked the 
> only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!

Slightly odd wording, but the correct message - it needs one or two
names, and you gave it zero :-)

Richard

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#212241

On Sun 04 Aug 2019 at 19:02:01 (+1200), Richard Hector wrote:
> On 4/08/19 2:46 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> >>> [sudo] password for gene:
> >>> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> >>> gene@picnc:~$
> >> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
> >>
> > Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked the 
> > only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!
> 
> Slightly odd wording, but the correct message - it needs one or two
> names, and you gave it zero :-)

May I agree with you, and say that the earlier comment disappoints me.

A lot of linux man pages are written by people who have English as a
second language (or even a third, fourth …), so we native English
speakers ought to think ourselves lucky and privileged to have all the
documentation primarily available in our own language. And if you're
going to criticise, criticise constructively.

Cheers,
David.

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#212243

On Sunday 04 August 2019 11:44:23 David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 04 Aug 2019 at 19:02:01 (+1200), Richard Hector wrote:
> > On 4/08/19 2:46 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >>> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> > >>> [sudo] password for gene:
> > >>> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> > >>> gene@picnc:~$
> > >>
> > >> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
> > >
> > > Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked
> > > the only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!
> >
> > Slightly odd wording, but the correct message - it needs one or two
> > names, and you gave it zero :-)
>
> May I agree with you, and say that the earlier comment disappoints me.
>
> A lot of linux man pages are written by people who have English as a
> second language (or even a third, fourth …), so we native English
> speakers ought to think ourselves lucky and privileged to have all the
> documentation primarily available in our own language. And if you're
> going to criticise, criticise constructively.
>
This is true, David. As a native English speaker, I tend to forget that. 
And I find I need reminded that 90% of the planets population has had to 
learn my language, and I should thank them more often for doing so. I am 
blessed that others have made the effort, thank you, a lot.

And that can lead to stronger responses when my native tongue gets 
mangled.  My apologies for that too.

> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212190

On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
  Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> 
>> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on
>> the local machine.
>> 
>> mick
> 
> I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda who 
> is
> a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use
> that as a guinea pig.
> Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> 
> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> [sudo] password for gene:
> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> gene@picnc:~$
> 
> WTH?

I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is 
different. Can always delete them.

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#212196

On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:35:17 mick crane wrote:

> On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
>   Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> >> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem
> >> on the local machine.
> >>
> >> mick
> >
> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> > who is
> > a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use
> > that as a guinea pig.
> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> >
> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> > [sudo] password for gene:
> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> > gene@picnc:~$
> >
> > WTH?
>
> I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is
> different. Can always delete them.

That will take a real file manager, and theres only one, mc. thunar is a 
one armed, one legged paper hanger, and the arm it has is broken. 
Somebody should either give it some two pane tools, or put it out of its 
misery. Mc has the ncurses interface, butt ugly.  But it runs and  can 
do its job including from a text login on vt#roll of the die. So I broke 
down and installed mc mc-data. And the only diff in the home dirs is 
mine has a thunar entry. I tried to do something with that broken POC. 
Failed of course.

But I just went back out and that xsession has died, and I can't log back 
in.  Or maybe its the screen blanker kicking in and using lightdm's 
login to unblank ?  If the blanker is locking it instead of coming alive 
at a keypress or a jiggled mouse, how the h--- do I get rid of that?

If thats the case, I have more than enough paranoia, and I sure don't 
need a paranoid machine, one that when doing its job might need an 
xset -dpms so the job can be monitored until its done even if, like 
wheezy running my mill, a 70 line file of gcode text takes over 28 hours 
to run.

Thanks Mick.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212198

On 2019-08-03 16:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:35:17 mick crane wrote:
> 
>> On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>   Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> 
>> >> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem
>> >> on the local machine.
>> >>
>> >> mick
>> >
>> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
>> > who is
>> > a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use
>> > that as a guinea pig.
>> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
>> >
>> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
>> > [sudo] password for gene:
>> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
>> > gene@picnc:~$
>> >
>> > WTH?
>> 
>> I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is
>> different. Can always delete them.
> 
> That will take a real file manager, and theres only one, mc. thunar is 
> a
> one armed, one legged paper hanger, and the arm it has is broken.
> Somebody should either give it some two pane tools, or put it out of 
> its
> misery. Mc has the ncurses interface, butt ugly.  But it runs and  can
> do its job including from a text login on vt#roll of the die. So I 
> broke
> down and installed mc mc-data. And the only diff in the home dirs is
> mine has a thunar entry. I tried to do something with that broken POC.
> Failed of course.
> 
> But I just went back out and that xsession has died, and I can't log 
> back
> in.  Or maybe its the screen blanker kicking in and using lightdm's
> login to unblank ?  If the blanker is locking it instead of coming 
> alive
> at a keypress or a jiggled mouse, how the h--- do I get rid of that?
> 
> If thats the case, I have more than enough paranoia, and I sure don't
> need a paranoid machine, one that when doing its job might need an
> xset -dpms so the job can be monitored until its done even if, like
> wheezy running my mill, a 70 line file of gcode text takes over 28 
> hours
> to run.
> 

When it logs you out can you log in at another screen (whatever it's 
called) Ctrl Alt F key ?
If so then is something about the display manager ?


-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#212205

On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:46:30 mick crane wrote:

> On 2019-08-03 16:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:35:17 mick crane wrote:
> >> On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>   Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> >> I would probably add another user and see if they have same
> >> >> problem on the local machine.
> >> >>
> >> >> mick
> >> >
> >> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> >> > who is
> >> > a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll
> >> > use that as a guinea pig.
> >> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> >> >
> >> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> >> > [sudo] password for gene:
> >> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> >> > gene@picnc:~$
> >> >
> >> > WTH?
> >>
> >> I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is
> >> different. Can always delete them.
> >
> > That will take a real file manager, and theres only one, mc. thunar
> > is a
> > one armed, one legged paper hanger, and the arm it has is broken.
> > Somebody should either give it some two pane tools, or put it out of
> > its
> > misery. Mc has the ncurses interface, butt ugly.  But it runs and 
> > can do its job including from a text login on vt#roll of the die. So
> > I broke
> > down and installed mc mc-data. And the only diff in the home dirs is
> > mine has a thunar entry. I tried to do something with that broken
> > POC. Failed of course.
> >
> > But I just went back out and that xsession has died, and I can't log
> > back
> > in.  Or maybe its the screen blanker kicking in and using lightdm's
> > login to unblank ?  If the blanker is locking it instead of coming
> > alive
> > at a keypress or a jiggled mouse, how the h--- do I get rid of that?
> >
> > If thats the case, I have more than enough paranoia, and I sure
> > don't need a paranoid machine, one that when doing its job might
> > need an xset -dpms so the job can be monitored until its done even
> > if, like wheezy running my mill, a 70 line file of gcode text takes
> > over 28 hours
> > to run.
>
> When it logs you out can you log in at another screen (whatever it's
> called) Ctrl Alt F key ?
> If so then is something about the display manager ?

ctrl+alt+F8, yes, so I opened a term and did an xset -dpms.
Whats the name of that lightdm config editor.

Cheers Mick, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#212209

On 2019-08-03 17:22, Gene Heskett wrote:
  to run.
>> 
>> When it logs you out can you log in at another screen (whatever it's
>> called) Ctrl Alt F key ?
>> If so then is something about the display manager ?
> 
> ctrl+alt+F8, yes, so I opened a term and did an xset -dpms.
> Whats the name of that lightdm config editor.

Pass, I don't do this very often.
could try another DM ?
https://itsfoss.com/switch-gdm-and-lightdm-in-ubuntu-14-04/

mick

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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