Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > linux.debian.user > #211847 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-07-29 12:50 +0200 |
| Last post | 2019-08-03 17:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 97 — 25 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 12:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-29 13:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 14:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-29 14:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 15:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-07-30 11:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-29 16:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 17:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-07-29 14:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-29 15:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 15:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-29 15:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 16:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 17:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-07-29 18:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-29 16:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-07-29 16:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 16:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-07-30 05:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-29 17:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-29 21:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 22:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-29 22:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 23:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? ghe <ghe@slsware.net> - 2019-07-29 23:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-30 00:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-30 03:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-30 09:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-07-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-30 14:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2019-07-30 14:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-07-30 15:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-30 21:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-30 21:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-31 00:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-07-30 21:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-31 00:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> - 2019-08-01 14:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-07-30 15:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-30 16:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-30 16:30 +0200
3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-07-30 17:40 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-07-31 09:50 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-31 10:00 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-01 15:50 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-01 19:10 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-01 21:50 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2019-08-01 22:20 +0200
Re: 3 phase power (was Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-08-01 23:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 18:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-08-03 20:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 21:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 23:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-29 17:30 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-07-31 01:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-07-31 09:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-02 16:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-31 09:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-07-31 14:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-31 15:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-07-31 15:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-31 15:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2019-08-01 03:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 04:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 04:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-01 08:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 04:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-01 08:40 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-01 08:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-08-01 10:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-02 05:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-08-02 05:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-31 22:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 17:00 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-29 17:20 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 18:00 +0200
PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-29 19:00 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 23:10 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-30 05:20 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:50 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-08-04 14:00 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-08-04 14:10 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-08-04 17:20 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-08-05 18:50 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-05 22:00 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-06 07:50 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-06 15:40 +0200
Re: PROGRESS!! - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-07 08:50 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-29 19:10 +0200
Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-29 18:40 +0200
Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-03 15:20 +0200
Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 17:00 +0200
Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-08-03 17:30 +0200
Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:50 +0200
Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 21:20 +0200
Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-08-03 18:20 +0200
Re: Useful links - was {Re: Wireless home LAN - WiFi vs Bluetooth?} David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-08-03 17:40 +0200
Page 2 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next page →
| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-29 21:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypjOF-2xz-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211871 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:26:14 -0500 John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > They don't have to be on the same branch circuit: just on the same > "phase"[1]. There is probably a gadget available that bridges the > signal between phases. > > > [1] They aren't really phases but everyone calls them that. They are in my country. 3-phase, 240V RMS each phase to neutral, 415V RMS between phases. -- Joe
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-29 22:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypjYl-2Bl-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211884 |
On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 20:43:04 (+0100), Joe wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:26:14 -0500 John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > > > They don't have to be on the same branch circuit: just on the same > > "phase"[1]. There is probably a gadget available that bridges the > > signal between phases. > > > > [1] They aren't really phases but everyone calls them that. > > They are in my country. 3-phase, 240V RMS each phase to neutral, 415V > RMS between phases. Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one phase in an ordinary house. Houses will have one phase each, so you'll share your phase with various neighbours scattered along the street. Cheers, David.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-29 22:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypk81-2Ud-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211886 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:57:38 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 20:43:04 (+0100), Joe wrote: > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:26:14 -0500 John Hasler > > <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > > > They don't have to be on the same branch circuit: just on the same > > > "phase"[1]. There is probably a gadget available that bridges the > > > signal between phases. > > > > > > [1] They aren't really phases but everyone calls them that. > > > > They are in my country. 3-phase, 240V RMS each phase to neutral, > > 415V RMS between phases. > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > phase in an ordinary house. Houses will have one phase each, so you'll > share your phase with various neighbours scattered along the street. > Which was the point. The nearest house on the same phase is likely to be a significant distance away, and less likely to have a useable level of RF from my power-line gadget. But I only use it occasionally. -- Joe
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-29 23:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypl46-3xR-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211888 |
On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 21:02:45 (+0100), Joe wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:57:38 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 20:43:04 (+0100), Joe wrote: > > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:26:14 -0500 John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > > > > They don't have to be on the same branch circuit: just on the same > > > > "phase"[1]. There is probably a gadget available that bridges the > > > > signal between phases. > > > > > > > > [1] They aren't really phases but everyone calls them that. > > > > > > They are in my country. 3-phase, 240V RMS each phase to neutral, > > > 415V RMS between phases. > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > > phase in an ordinary house. Houses will have one phase each, so you'll > > share your phase with various neighbours scattered along the street. > > Which was the point. The nearest house on the same phase is likely to > be a significant distance away, and less likely to have a useable level > of RF from my power-line gadget. But I only use it occasionally. Sorry, I thought you were implying that people might be affected by having different phases in different rooms. But you could be next door to someone on the same phase. I don't think they rigidly assign 1,2,3,1,2,3 in order. In fact they can't because of the UK fashion for squeezing just one more house into any little gap between two others. Plus there are neighbours across the street. But that's a security issue rather than an intra-house networking one. Cheers, David.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | ghe <ghe@slsware.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-29 23:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yplnr-3F5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211886 |
On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > phase in an ordinary house. FYI, and significantly OT: I don't think that's true in the US. Not in Austin, Texas anyway. Several years ago I knew a woman down there who said she had 3 phase in her house to run her air conditioner. She may have been just kidding, but she was a pretty good techie, so I believe her. Although I have no idea how she could get that in a residential area... -- Glenn English
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 00:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypm09-48D-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211895 |
On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > > phase in an ordinary house. > > FYI, and significantly OT: > > I don't think that's true in the US. Not in Austin, Texas anyway. > Several years ago I knew a woman down there who said she had 3 phase > in her house to run her air conditioner. > > She may have been just kidding, but she was a pretty good techie, so I > believe her. Although I have no idea how she could get that in a > residential area... I don't think its sick bird, but it just isn't done unless you want to pay for the construction costs to get it to you. I'm about 3 blocks from the main 3 phase lines, so by the time they call Coleman SD and get the other cans on site, I'd expect to get a quote north of 20k$ to get it delivered. When its only about $80 a horse to make your own with a vfd, there's zero excuse to ask for a quote. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 03:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yppr3-66V-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211899 |
On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: > > > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > > > phase in an ordinary house. > > > > FYI, and significantly OT: > > > > I don't think that's true in the US. IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. > > Not in Austin, Texas anyway. > > Several years ago I knew a woman down there who said she had 3 phase > > in her house to run her air conditioner. > > > > She may have been just kidding, but she was a pretty good techie, so I > > believe her. Although I have no idea how she could get that in a > > residential area... > > I don't think its sick bird, but it just isn't done unless you want to > pay for the construction costs to get it to you. I'm about 3 blocks from > the main 3 phase lines, so by the time they call Coleman SD and get the > other cans on site, I'd expect to get a quote north of 20k$ to get it > delivered. When its only about $80 a horse to make your own with a vfd, > there's zero excuse to ask for a quote. But Gene, everything's bigger in TX. Cheers, David.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 09:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypuh3-Jx-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211901 |
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:46:36 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: > > > > > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more > > > > than one phase in an ordinary house. > > > > > > FYI, and significantly OT: > > > > > > I don't think that's true in the US. > > IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. > Yes. I'm not an electrician, the only time I've encountered it was at an exhibition, I think in Bahrain, where a number of British companies shared a stand. A three-phase cable with a box on the end was dangled into our stand, along with a request to balance the loads as best we could. The other people were all too cowardly to touch the thing, and I was the youngest there (it was about forty years ago) so I ended up wiring it. Carefully. No, it wasn't live at the time, but everyone who has built an exhibition stand knows how reliable the organisers' electricians are, and how power comes and goes without warning... -- Joe
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 13:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypykF-3mB-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211901 |
On 29.07.19 20:46, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: > > > > > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > > > > phase in an ordinary house. > > > > > > FYI, and significantly OT: > > > > > > I don't think that's true in the US. > > IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. Here in Australia we also have only "240v", generally closer to 230v nowadays, and domestic 3 phase is no big deal, just a couple of thousand dollars more, as it's just a 3 phase cable, 3 fuses on the pole instead of 1, and then what you want to cram in your switchboard. Good for a big aircon in a big house on a 43°C day. (110°F) People who have it and a nice big PV array on the roof are allowed to feed much more power back into the grid than someone with only one phase. Now that the feed-in tariff is better, some consumers have close to zero electricity bill, despite using grid power at night. (Much cheaper than batteries.) Should have no power-line signal leakage on my new build, it's off-grid, with a mile to the nearest neighbour. ;-) Erik
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 14:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypzJM-465-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211909 |
Erik writes: > Here in Australia we also have only "240v", generally closer to 230v > nowadays, and domestic 3 phase is no big deal, just a couple of > thousand dollars more, as it's just a 3 phase cable, 3 fuses on the > pole instead of 1... In low density areas in the USA there isn't always three-phase on the pole. The substation that our feeder is on is about eight miles away and about halfway here one phase turns down a side road to feed some other farms. To get three-phase I'd have to pay Excel to string the missing wire. The line is also 7 KV so I'd have to pay for two more transformers. At our place in Minneapolis, on the other hand, there was 240 three-phase on the pole fed from a set of transformers at the end of the block. I could have had three-phase in the house just by paying for the wire. Of course, any rf I had put on the house wiring would have gone to every house on the block... -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 14:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypzA5-42E-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211886 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 7/29/19 12:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 20:43:04 (+0100), Joe wrote: >> On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:26:14 -0500 John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: >> >>> They don't have to be on the same branch circuit: just on the same >>> "phase"[1]. There is probably a gadget available that bridges the >>> signal between phases. >>> >>> [1] They aren't really phases but everyone calls them that. >> >> They are in my country. 3-phase, 240V RMS each phase to neutral, 415V >> RMS between phases. > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > phase in an ordinary house. Houses will have one phase each, so you'll > share your phase with various neighbours scattered along the street. How do you figure? In the US most 240V outlets are 3 phase, and they are relatively common. You need them for most ovens, washing machines, and electric cars.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 15:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypzTs-49o-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211913 |
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 08:46:36PM -0500, David Wright wrote: >On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: >> > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: >> > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one >> > > phase in an ordinary house. >> > >> > FYI, and significantly OT: >> > >> > I don't think that's true in the US. > >IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. Domestic 3 phase is common in much of the world, including (specifically) the UK. There's nothing illegal about it, it's just prohibitively expensive if (as in most of the US) 3 phase isn't already provisioned. (E.g., in my area many people would need to eat the cost of more than a quarter mile of new poles and wires if they wanted 3 phase, and there's basically zero advantage unless you're trying to run industrial electric motors in your house for some reason.) On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 02:30:50PM +0200, Matthew Crews wrote: >How do you figure? In the US most 240V outlets are 3 phase, and they are >relatively common. You need them for most ovens, washing machines, and >electric cars. That's split single phase, not 3 phase.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 21:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypFPc-7VG-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211916 |
On Tue 30 Jul 2019 at 08:49:43 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 08:46:36PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: > > > > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > > > > > phase in an ordinary house. > > > > > > > > FYI, and significantly OT: > > > > > > > > I don't think that's true in the US. > > > > IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. > > Domestic 3 phase is common in much of the world, including > (specifically) the UK. There's nothing illegal about it, it's just > prohibitively expensive if (as in most of the US) 3 phase isn't > already provisioned. (E.g., in my area many people would need to eat > the cost of more than a quarter mile of new poles and wires if they > wanted 3 phase, and there's basically zero advantage unless you're > trying to run industrial electric motors in your house for some > reason.) My observation has always been that where 3 phases reach from the street to the cut out in the house, only one is connected to the meter, and the others are left unconnected. Perhaps they're changing the rules.¹ It might be safe to use another phase for something that people have no access to, like an instant water heater, but I've only seen that sort of arrangement in communal blocks, which is not really domestic. Even an electric shower only takes about 40A, and the fuse is typically 100A. But I guess in an old house with old wiring, they might need to plumb in a special circuit. Perhaps someone living in the UK who actually has more than one phase in use in their home could give some details of how it's dealt with. In Europe they do commonly have 3 phase supplies but I think that's partly because they have lower current ratings on the phases. I can't speak for what their wiring regulations are like, but I suspect that only one phase is used for general wiring, with dedicated circuits to items like ranges. Even if you were to put different phases on different floors, you have the stairs to consider. ¹ Ignorance of the law is no defence, but it can be expensive to obtain something like the building regs in the UK. Cheers, David.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 21:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypFYR-7Zd-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211931 |
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:15:44 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > ¹ Ignorance of the law is no defence, but it can be expensive > to obtain something like the building regs in the UK. Whereas your local library should have a current copy of the Wiring Regulations. I rewired my first house at sixteen, courtesy of the library's Regulations. -- Joe
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-31 00:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypIN3-1hQ-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211933 |
On Tue 30 Jul 2019 at 20:25:11 (+0100), Joe wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:15:44 -0500 David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > > > ¹ Ignorance of the law is no defence, but it can be expensive > > to obtain something like the building regs in the UK. > > Whereas your local library should have a current copy of the Wiring > Regulations. I rewired my first house at sixteen, courtesy of the > library's Regulations. Small town, USA: I pop into the code office and have a chat. But it's all downloadable, and very dry. Cheers, David.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 21:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypGie-864-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211931 |
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 02:15:44PM -0500, David Wright wrote: >On Tue 30 Jul 2019 at 08:49:43 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 08:46:36PM -0500, David Wright wrote: >> > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: >> > > On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: >> > > > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: >> > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one >> > > > > phase in an ordinary house. >> > > > >> > > > FYI, and significantly OT: >> > > > >> > > > I don't think that's true in the US. >> > >> > IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. >> >> Domestic 3 phase is common in much of the world, including >> (specifically) the UK. There's nothing illegal about it, it's just >> prohibitively expensive if (as in most of the US) 3 phase isn't >> already provisioned. (E.g., in my area many people would need to eat >> the cost of more than a quarter mile of new poles and wires if they >> wanted 3 phase, and there's basically zero advantage unless you're >> trying to run industrial electric motors in your house for some >> reason.) [snip] >Perhaps someone living in the UK who actually has more than one phase >in use in their home could give some details of how it's dealt with. > >In Europe they do commonly have 3 phase supplies I did a cursory check and found UK manufacturers of things like 3 phase domestic stoves and assumed they were used in the UK. It seems that they're for use elsewhere in EU, so I'll withdraw that 3 phase is common in UK. >but I think that's >partly because they have lower current ratings on the phases. >I can't speak for what their wiring regulations are like, but I >suspect that only one phase is used for general wiring, with >dedicated circuits to items like ranges. Even if you were to put >different phases on different floors, you have the stairs to >consider. Why would having different phases on different circuits be a problem? It's pretty common IMO, because you want the load balanced between them. (Unless the concern is that the crazy UK circuit loops will get crosswired?) In general 3 phase is only used for dedicated equipment circuits, but that's because not many portable appliances need that much power.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-31 00:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypIN3-1hQ-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211934 |
On Tue 30 Jul 2019 at 15:41:50 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: [snip] > Why would having different phases on different circuits be a problem? > It's pretty common IMO, because you want the load balanced between > them. (Unless the concern is that the crazy UK circuit loops will get > crosswired?) In general 3 phase is only used for dedicated equipment > circuits, but that's because not many portable appliances need that > much power. [In the UK] Because ordinary people get shocks from, for example, table lamps when they change the bulbs, legacy unshrouded plug pins when pulling them out of sockets, frayed cords, 101 other reasons. 240v is not usually lethal. But the big problem is any scenario by which two phases come into proximity, and you can make up any number of these. Lighting and wall power in the same room. Vacuuming down the stairs, finishing on another floor. Using an inspection lamp when looking at a large appliance that's broken down. Any of these will yield a 415v shock hazard if two phases are involved. Cheers, David.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Martin McCormick" <martin.m@suddenlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-08-01 14:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <yqixc-78E-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211934 |
Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> writes: > On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 02:15:44PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Tue 30 Jul 2019 at 08:49:43 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 08:46:36PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 18:00:25 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > On Monday 29 July 2019 17:26:17 ghe wrote: > > > > On 7/29/19 1:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have > more than one > > > > > phase in an ordinary house. > > > > > > > > FYI, and significantly OT: > > > > > > > > I don't think that's true in the US. > > > > IIRC Joe's in the UK. 3-phase there is lethal. 1 is bad enough. > > Domestic 3 phase is common in much of the world, including > (specifically) the UK. There's nothing illegal about it, it's just > prohibitively expensive if (as in most of the US) 3 phase isn't > already provisioned. (E.g., in my area many people would need to > eat > the cost of more than a quarter mile of new poles and wires if > they > wanted 3 phase, and there's basically zero advantage unless you're > trying to run industrial electric motors in your house for some > reason.) > > > [snip] > > Perhaps someone living in the UK who actually has more than one phase > in use in their home could give some details of how it's dealt with. > > > In Europe they do commonly have 3 phase supplies > > > > I did a cursory check and found UK manufacturers of things like 3 phase > domestic stoves and assumed they were used in the UK. It seems that > they're > for use elsewhere in EU, so I'll withdraw that 3 phase is common in UK. > > > > but I think that's > partly because they have lower current ratings on the phases. > I can't speak for what their wiring regulations are like, but I > suspect that only one phase is used for general wiring, with > dedicated circuits to items like ranges. Even if you were to put > different phases on different floors, you have the stairs to > consider. > > > > Why would having different phases on different circuits be a problem? It's > pretty common IMO, because you want the load balanced between them. > (Unless > the concern is that the crazy UK circuit loops will get crosswired?) In > general 3 phase is only used for dedicated equipment circuits, but that's > because not many portable appliances need that much power. I did read once in "QST" which is an amateur radio magazine, an article by an amateur radio operator who had lived in Tehran during earlier times who wrote that some residents there had multiple power lines and meters at their houses and a large switch that one could move to which ever line was supplying the most reliable source of power that day. Apparently, multiple companies had infrastructure all over Tehran or at least parts of Tehran, each one selling power to anyone who could pay. No word as to whether this was phased power but each customer would have only been using one phase at a time so it technically didn't matter. One just used whichever feed was working that day and switched phases or feeds when the lights went off. Between 1989 and 2015, I worked for Oklahoma State University's IT Center in Network Operations. The campus has 3-phase AC power to run air handling systems in the larger buildings, one of which was the one I worked in which held our IBM main frame. One fateful day around 1990 or so, we lost at least 1 of the 3 phases which created a monster mess to say the least. Since 3-phase motors get power from all 3 phases, the absence of one phase means that the remaining 2 phases are essentially back-feeding the rest of the network through all the 3-phase devices that are attempting to still run on the remaining 2. The missing phase had transformers on it that supplied power to offices for traditional uses such as the workers' PC's, coffee makers, etc. Now, all those things were getting generally lower voltage than they should but it could rise to higher than normal at any time depending on whatever 3-phase motor was trying to run. I remember stepping in to a large room we had which was full of rack-mounted power supplies which ran our campus data network of RS-232 serial devices. Remember this was 1990 and network communications didn't even remotely resemble what they are today. There were racks and racks of switching power supplies that ran this data network and each supply was attempting to still run. The chopping oscillators in those supplies normally chopped at ultrasonic frequencies in the range of 100 KHZ or more but that day, there were probably only receiving 20 or 30 volts at the power socket so they were oscillating at very audible frequencies like so many derange smoke alarms, rising and falling in pitch in an eerie wale. Our serial RS-232-based network seemed sophisticated at the time with battery backup of each node and so forth but that sustained period of low and varying voltage convinced the processors in the nodes that someone was changing baud rate and loopback settings so, when the phase was restored and the normal world returned, that network was fouled up beyond recognition for quite a long time. We got the nodes back by reloading each one with saved backup files so that wasn't so bad but some of the weirdness was propagated to nodes in other buildings so we didn't get it all cleaned up for literally weeks. It was mostly okay that afternoon but we would get calls from departments across the university that this or that printer or VT100 terminal wasn't working when somebody tried to use it and the fault turned out to be another randomly deconfigured port. The down phase created an apocalyptic scene what with overhead lighting mostly absent but occasionally trying to flicker on and the wailing power supplies. Martin McCormick WB5AGZ
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 15:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypAFQ-4Fs-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211913 |
Matthew writes: > In the US most 240V outlets are 3 phase... They are 240 V center-tap grounded. That is what is provisioned to most residences in the USA, usually from a single-phase transformer on a pole (or on a pad if distribution is underground). 120 V branch circuits are distributed equally between the two 120 V lines in the breaker panel. Electricians incorrectly refer two the two 120 V lines as phases and the grounded conductor as the neutral. Three phase is perfectly legal if you are willing to pay for it, though. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-07-30 16:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ypB8S-54Q-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #211913 |
On Tuesday 30 July 2019 08:30:50 Matthew Crews wrote: > On 7/29/19 12:57 PM, David Wright wrote: > > On Mon 29 Jul 2019 at 20:43:04 (+0100), Joe wrote: > >> On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:26:14 -0500 John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > >>> They don't have to be on the same branch circuit: just on the same > >>> "phase"[1]. There is probably a gadget available that bridges the > >>> signal between phases. > >>> > >>> [1] They aren't really phases but everyone calls them that. > >> > >> They are in my country. 3-phase, 240V RMS each phase to neutral, > >> 415V RMS between phases. > > > > Irrelevant in a domestic setting: it's illegal to have more than one > > phase in an ordinary house. Houses will have one phase each, so > > you'll share your phase with various neighbours scattered along the > > street. > > How do you figure? In the US most 240V outlets are 3 phase, and they > are relatively common. You need them for most ovens, washing machines, > and electric cars. I'm 84, and have yet to see a 3 phase line into a house. ALL 3 wire housedrops are 240-252 volts center tapped with the centertap grounded at the butt-wrap on the can carrying pole and bare to the house weatherhead, and usually serving as the messenger wire for the other 2 hot wires. We do not consider that the 180 degree electrical phase makes a separate phase. Houses are equipt with service boxes that use both of these hot lines so on average the neutral current is balanced and quite low when everything is turned on. And I've never seen a 240 volt washing machine on the sales floor here. Any electric car that needed 3 phase to charge would be silly and would quickly be bankrupt, no one is going to buy a $35k Tesla when he finds the garage pluggin to charge it costs him another $20k. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 2 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user
csiph-web