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Flatpak or repository apps

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  Flatpak or repository apps Georgios <gpdsbe+debian@mailbox.org> - 2019-07-12 09:00 +0200
    Re: Flatpak or repository apps Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-12 09:20 +0200
      Re: Flatpak or repository apps Georgios <gpdsbe@mailbox.org> - 2019-07-13 20:00 +0200
    Re: Flatpak or repository apps Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-12 13:30 +0200
      Re: Flatpak or repository apps Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-07-15 12:10 +0200

#211269 — Flatpak or repository apps

Hi there!

Based on security and stability i was wondering what is more preferable?

Installing apps through flatpak or through debian repositories?

Some thoughts in my mind.

Repositories:

-I was thinking that in repositories you have old software that gets
bugs fixes. But what about old software that it isnt supported? Are
fixes backported etc? How fast?

-Doesnt offer easy sandboxing like flatpak

-Apparmor can restrict applications


Flatpak:

-sandboxing

-Propably bug fixes are faster if the developer support flatpak distribution

-No Apparmor.

-are the latest applications stable enough?


Any thoughts on the issue?

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#211272

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On Vi, 12 iul 19, 09:33:44, Georgios wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> Based on security and stability i was wondering what is more preferable?
> 
> Installing apps through flatpak or through debian repositories?

This is quite generic. It would help if you provided concrete examples 
of software that is available both as Debian package and flatpak.
 
> Some thoughts in my mind.
> 
> Repositories:
> 
> -I was thinking that in repositories you have old software that gets
> bugs fixes. But what about old software that it isnt supported? Are
> fixes backported etc? How fast?

Depends on the software.

> -Doesnt offer easy sandboxing like flatpak
> 
> -Apparmor can restrict applications
> 
> 
> Flatpak:
> 
> -sandboxing
> 
> -Propably bug fixes are faster if the developer support flatpak distribution

What makes you assume that?

> -No Apparmor.
> 
> -are the latest applications stable enough?

Depends on the application.

> Any thoughts on the issue?

Some, as per above, but not very helpful without examples.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#211350

On 7/12/19 10:14 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 12 iul 19, 09:33:44, Georgios wrote:
>> Hi there!
>>
>> Based on security and stability i was wondering what is more preferable?
>>
>> Installing apps through flatpak or through debian repositories?
> 
> This is quite generic. It would help if you provided concrete examples 
> of software that is available both as Debian package and flatpak.

well i was thinking if it has any advantage installing user apps like
gimp,keepassxc,shotwell,vlc and libreoffice through flatpak.
They are on debian repositories and flatpak

>  
>> Some thoughts in my mind.
>>
>> Repositories:
>>
>> -I was thinking that in repositories you have old software that gets
>> bugs fixes. But what about old software that it isnt supported? Are
>> fixes backported etc? How fast?
> 
> Depends on the software.
> 
>> -Doesnt offer easy sandboxing like flatpak
>>
>> -Apparmor can restrict applications
>>
>>
>> Flatpak:
>>
>> -sandboxing
>>
>> -Propably bug fixes are faster if the developer support flatpak distribution
> 
> What makes you assume that?
> 
>> -No Apparmor.
>>
>> -are the latest applications stable enough?
> 
> Depends on the application.
> 
>> Any thoughts on the issue?
> 
> Some, as per above, but not very helpful without examples.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> 

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#211287

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 09:33:44AM +0300, Georgios wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> Based on security and stability i was wondering what is more preferable?
> 
> Installing apps through flatpak or through debian repositories?

I trust Debian at packaging software, correcting obvious software
defects in the process, and supporting the unchanged behaviour of the
software during the lifecycle of the stable release while providing the
bugfixes.
For the typical software developer (especially those who write "apps",
not "programs"), maintaining a stable version of their software is a
burden, and a "security" is an unfamiliar concept.


> Repositories:
> 
> -I was thinking that in repositories you have old software that gets
> bugs fixes. But what about old software that it isnt supported?

By the upstream, you mean? If it's a security problem it will be get
fixed or the package is excluded from the archive.

> Are fixes backported etc?

Of course, if it's feasible.
If it's not - software version gets bumped (browsers, samba, wireshark
to name a few examples).

> How fast?

Faster if the maintainer gets help. From the users of the software, for
instance.

> -Doesnt offer easy sandboxing like flatpak

Which is only need for the untrusted software in the first place.
Crucial for the task flatpak was designed for (delivering desktop "apps"
taken from random places at Internet), but is something one can easily
avoid by using a trusted software in the first place (i.e. Debian main
archive).

> -Apparmor can restrict applications

Yup. And it's a useful compromise between security and usability.
The main problem of apparmor is that it uses targeted approach (every
policy is linked to executable) instead of more correct labeled approach
like MLS SELinux policy does.

> Flatpak:
> 
> -sandboxing

See above.

> -Propably bug fixes are faster if the developer support flatpak distribution

Alongside with behaviour changes, possible incompatibility to previous
versions, and of course - fresh new bugs.

> -No Apparmor.

True. But if it bothers you consider using SELinux, which does offer
something in this regard. The problem is - you choose wrong distribution
if you need SELinux (it's barebone basic in Debian).

> -are the latest applications stable enough?

LOL. Why do you think they invented version stabilization in the first
place? If you like to live on a bleeding edge you have to bleed sooner
or later.

Reco

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#211395

On Fri 12/Jul/2019 13:27:08 +0200 Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 09:33:44AM +0300, Georgios wrote:
>> Hi there!
>>
>> Based on security and stability i was wondering what is more preferable?
>>
>> Installing apps through flatpak or through debian repositories?
> 
> I trust Debian at packaging software, correcting obvious software
> defects in the process, and supporting the unchanged behaviour of the
> software during the lifecycle of the stable release while providing the
> bugfixes.


We all trust Debian.  However, some packages are maintained better
than others.  Georgios mentions libreoffice as a candidate for
flatpak.  Since they produce .deb's as well, it is probably better to
install that.  You get LibreOffice 6.2 rather than stock 1:6.1.5-3 on
Buster.  LibreOffice signals the presence of new versions when you run
it, so you can upgrade on occasion, as you would do under Windows.

If LibreOffice only maintained a flatpak, then the merit would lay in
the packaging system.  Flatpak doesn't seem to be so widely generic as
GNU autotools.  It makes a few harsh categorizations, mainly about
graphics, and assumes the rest is the same on all Linux distributions.
 Neither flatpak nor autotools integrate with Debian package
management.  Pro and cons?


Best
Ale
-- 

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