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Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster

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  Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2019-07-09 19:00 +0200
    Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-07-09 21:30 +0200
      Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-09 21:40 +0200
        Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-07-09 22:20 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing   DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-07-10 02:30 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-07-10 08:30 +0200
      Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2019-07-09 22:10 +0200
        Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-07-09 22:20 +0200
        Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2019-07-09 23:00 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Charlie Kravetz <charlie@keepingdreams.com> - 2019-07-10 00:00 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing          DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2019-07-10 01:30 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-07-10 06:00 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-07-10 10:20 +0200
            Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-10 10:30 +0200
              Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-10 22:10 +0200
                Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-07-11 10:00 +0200
        Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Thomas Pircher <thp+debian@p5r.uk> - 2019-07-10 09:00 +0200
          Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2019-07-10 10:00 +0200
        Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing  DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster kdall99@runbox.com - 2019-07-10 12:10 +0200

#211098 — Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster

>Still broken because there is no 'In-Reply-To' or 'References' email
>header. You've just removed it from the body text. (I'm not the person
>who complained this time but I did in the past.)
>
>-- 
>Tixy

Yeah I agree it's broken.  It's definitely time I figured out how to 
rewrite or use custom headers when calling alpine with the list mailto: 
link but it might take me a minute.

I sure don't want to annoy any further, and I'll need to figure out a good 
way to test any changes I make instead of using the list.

Any tips welcome, gripes not so much, but it's all good.

What's the idea behind references and in-reply-to?  Which or both are the 
right way to go?

Found this old link, sounds complicated.
http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/changing_from/

In the meantime, tell Markos @
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/07/msg00573.html
about bugs 842422, 835553 ok?

L8r,
bw

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#211104 — Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster

>What's the idea behind references and in-reply-to?  Which or both are
>the 
>right way to go?
>
>Found this old link, sounds complicated.
>http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/changing_from/
>
>In the meantime, tell Markos @
>https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/07/msg00573.html
>about bugs 842422, 835553 ok?

Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy or ancient Greek fax machine.

-nik

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#211105

	Hi.

On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> >What's the idea behind references and in-reply-to?  Which or both are
> >the 
> >right way to go?
> >
> >Found this old link, sounds complicated.
> >http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/changing_from/
> >
> >In the meantime, tell Markos @
> >https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/07/msg00573.html
> >about bugs 842422, 835553 ok?
> 
> Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy or ancient Greek fax machine.

> User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android

LOL. One who lives in the glass house should not throw stones.

Reco

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#211110

On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 10:33:02PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> > Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy or ancient Greek fax machine.
> 
> > User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
> 
> LOL. One who lives in the glass house should not throw stones.

And yet... Dominik's mail has valid In-Reply-To: and References: headers.
Seems like some pretty good glass.

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#211123 — Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 10:33:02PM +0300, Reco wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
>> > Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy
>> > or ancient Greek fax machine.
>> 
>> > User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
>> 
>> LOL. One who lives in the glass house should not throw stones.
>
> And yet... Dominik's mail has valid In-Reply-To: and References: headers.
> Seems like some pretty good glass.

Must've gotten it from Corning.

But then again, glass is silly strong, just a bit brittle.


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=2nsq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#211134

	Hi.

On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 04:14:07PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 10:33:02PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> > > Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy or ancient Greek fax machine.
> > 
> > > User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
> > 
> > LOL. One who lives in the glass house should not throw stones.
> 
> And yet... Dominik's mail has valid In-Reply-To: and References: headers.
> Seems like some pretty good glass.

I agree that K-9 is a sane e-mail client in this regard. Does not make
it "decent" and does not remove "toy" status from it.

Reco

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#211108

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, Dominik George wrote:

> >What's the idea behind references and in-reply-to?  Which or both are
> >the 
> >right way to go?
> >
> >Found this old link, sounds complicated.
> >http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/changing_from/
> >
> >In the meantime, tell Markos @
> >https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/07/msg00573.html
> >about bugs 842422, 835553 ok?
> 
> Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy or 
> ancient Greek fax machine.
> 
> -nik
> 

You mean a windows-clone email client?  haha, yeah right.  I fart in your 
general direction.

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#211109

On 2019-07-09, bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Normally, it's sufficient to use a decent mailer instead of a toy or 
>> ancient Greek fax machine.
>> 
>> -nik
>> 
>
> You mean a windows-clone email client?  haha, yeah right.  I fart in your 
> general direction.
>

We are beginning to diverge here from the sound technical arguments and
sober, unemotional discourse for which this forum is renown.


-- 
"These findings demonstrate that under appropriate conditions the isolated,
intact large mammalian brain possesses an underappreciated capacity for
restoration of microcirculation and molecular and cellular activity after a
prolonged post-mortem interval." From a recent article in *Nature*. Holy shit. 

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#211111

>We are beginning to diverge here from the sound technical arguments and
>sober, unemotional discourse for which this forum is renown.

Come on, that's just not true.  This list is full of crap and nobody even 
knows wtf is up with whty alpine is broken this way, including me.  The 
whole argument reminds me of the myth of the gnat and the camel... 
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/straining+at+a+gnat

I try to help a user swallow the camel, and get criticised for the 
gnat in my email.

Anyway, it is a problem I'd love to solve with a mail client that works 
from linux tty.

L8r,
bw

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#211114

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 16:33:39 -0400 (EDT)
bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>We are beginning to diverge here from the sound technical arguments and
>>sober, unemotional discourse for which this forum is renown.  
>
>Come on, that's just not true.  This list is full of crap and nobody even 
>knows wtf is up with whty alpine is broken this way, including me.  The 
>whole argument reminds me of the myth of the gnat and the camel... 
>https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/straining+at+a+gnat
>
>I try to help a user swallow the camel, and get criticised for the 
>gnat in my email.
>
>Anyway, it is a problem I'd love to solve with a mail client that works 
>from linux tty.
>
>L8r,
>bw
>

Claws-mail works very good for mailing lists. It is a linux mail
reader, now also for windows.

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#211119 — Re: please stop breaking threads (was: Problem Installing DiscoveryStudio2019 in Buster

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

bw writes:

> >We are beginning to diverge here from the sound technical arguments and
> >sober, unemotional discourse for which this forum is renown.
>
> Come on, that's just not true.  This list is full of crap and nobody even
> knows wtf is up with whty alpine is broken this way, including me.  The
> whole argument reminds me of the myth of the gnat and the camel...
> https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/straining+at+a+gnat
>
> I try to help a user swallow the camel, and get criticised for the
> gnat in my email.
>
> Anyway, it is a problem I'd love to solve with a mail client that works
> from linux tty.

Cone works well for me, although it is unfortunately not in Debian anymore.
See http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/ to find out if it may suit your needs.

HTH
Linux-Fan

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#211127

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Ma, 09 iul 19, 16:33:39, bw wrote:
> 
> Anyway, it is a problem I'd love to solve with a mail client that works 
> from linux tty.

I'm quite surprised neo/mutt was not mentioned already.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#211144

On 2019-07-09, bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>We are beginning to diverge here from the sound technical arguments and
>>sober, unemotional discourse for which this forum is renown.
>
> Come on, that's just not true.  This list is full of crap and nobody even 

There was a certain element of jocularity up there that maybe got lost in the
translation, but I admire your spirit.

> knows wtf is up with whty alpine is broken this way, including me.  The 

I doubt it's broken. Maybe you need a role. 

> whole argument reminds me of the myth of the gnat and the camel... 
> https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/straining+at+a+gnat

Here they say, in a similar vein, "enculer une mouche" (to fuck a fly in
the ass), which, I have to admit, is the national sport of some of our
more fastidious participants. 

> I try to help a user swallow the camel, and get criticised for the 
> gnat in my email.
>
> Anyway, it is a problem I'd love to solve with a mail client that works 
> from linux tty.

Alpine works fine. There are legions of snobs here, though, who, at the
drop of just about any hat, will suggest you switch to mutt, purge
Network Manager, eradicate Gnome, clear out the avahi-daemon, compose in
emacs, and open all windows in FVWM (and the list goes on).

> L8r,
> bw
>
>


-- 
"These findings demonstrate that under appropriate conditions the isolated,
intact large mammalian brain possesses an underappreciated capacity for
restoration of microcirculation and molecular and cellular activity after a
prolonged post-mortem interval." From a recent article in *Nature*. Holy shit. 

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#211146

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On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 08:18:31AM -0000, Curt wrote:

[...]

> Alpine works fine.

Most probably, yes :-)

>                    There are legions of snobs here, though, who, at the
> drop of just about any hat, will suggest you switch to mutt, purge
> Network Manager, eradicate Gnome, clear out the avahi-daemon, compose in
> emacs, and open all windows in FVWM (and the list goes on).

Hey... I never suggested *you* do that! (I do most of it; actually I
don't have to purge NetworkManager because it doesn't get installed
in the first place: our dislike seems to be reciprocal). But by all
means... do whatever floats your boat!

I only get queasy when sided (all of them) start slinging mud at each
other :-)

Cheers
-- t

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#211187

On Wed 10 Jul 2019 at 10:25:29 (+0200), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 08:18:31AM -0000, Curt wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Alpine works fine.
> 
> Most probably, yes :-)

I'm not certain that it does. I looked at a web page for Alpine
http://alpine.x10host.com/alpine/alpine-info/misc/headers.html
(I don't know what version nor whether it's authoritative),
and read:

   "Note that there are some headers that you can not edit, nor you
   should add to the list of Customized Headers. The list of headers
   that can not be edited within Alpine is the following: Message-Id,	[sic]
   In-Reply-To, References, Date, […]

I can understand Message-ID and Date as they're unknown when composing
the message, but I sometimes add/edit the In-Reply-To when I come late
to a thread and have already deleted the post I want to respond to.
I just grab the Message-id [sic] from the web archive.

So unless you've got some method of inserting an email with the
appropriate Message-ID into a mailbox and then pointing Alpine at it,
it might be tricky to send a post with the appropriate value when
you not subscribed to the list.

Did bw unsubscribe from the list between 2018-10-19 and 2019-03-31,
which is when In-Reply-To went AWOL in posts I have still have access to.

> >                    There are legions of snobs here, though, who, at the
> > drop of just about any hat, will suggest you switch to mutt, purge
> > Network Manager, eradicate Gnome, clear out the avahi-daemon, compose in
> > emacs, and open all windows in FVWM (and the list goes on).

Why "snobs"? Until I inherited this laptop, I never had the hardware
to be able to run a DE like Gnome, so mutt/emacs/fvwm were sensible
choices. Having used them now for over 20 years, I see little point
in changing. I'm not bothered whether anyone switches to them, though
I guess just saying here that you use them carries that implication
for some people.

I think *this* laptop could run a DE and VMs and so on. But there has
to be some incentive to add complexity. Put them in the queue, behind
learning IPv6 and other things that people say I ought to know about.

Cheers,
David.

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#211204

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On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 03:09:24PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Wed 10 Jul 2019 at 10:25:29 (+0200), tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 08:18:31AM -0000, Curt wrote:

[...]

> > >                    There are legions of snobs here, though, who, at the
> > > drop of just about any hat, will suggest you switch to mutt, purge
> > > Network Manager, eradicate Gnome, clear out the avahi-daemon, compose in
> > > emacs, and open all windows in FVWM (and the list goes on).
> 
> Why "snobs"? Until I inherited this laptop, I never had the hardware
> to be able to run a DE like Gnome, so mutt/emacs/fvwm were sensible
> choices. Having used them now for over 20 years, I see little point
> in changing. I'm not bothered whether anyone switches to them, though
> I guess just saying here that you use them carries that implication
> for some people.
> 
> I think *this* laptop could run a DE and VMs and so on. But there has
> to be some incentive to add complexity. Put them in the queue, behind
> learning IPv6 and other things that people say I ought to know about.

:-)

Here's a slightly different "snob" biography: wrt GUIs (in the Unix
world) I started out with twm (yes, /that/ old). Was inrigued at the
time by olwm and (especially!) gwm [1]. But my hardware at the time
(386, 4MB RAM -- no typo!) didn't make those enjoyable.

Later fvwm, fvwm2, Gnome (I was an ardent fan of Gnome and Gtk,
still have some C/Gtk programs running at customer's sites, one
in production since 2002 which still receives updates).

Since around Gnome2/3 transitions I desperately started to look
for alternatives. First it was XFCE, then a couple of tiling WMs
(awesome was one of them), now I'm back to fvwm.

Happy as a clam.

Now I know I'm conflating WMs and DEs (I know the difference, g
figure). I know I can't throw fvwm onto most of my customers.
I'm an old guy, you know?

But there's one thing I can't stand, and that's authoritarian
software. And as those DEs evolve, they all tend to develop
that trait. It gives me goosebumps. My desk has a couple of
dents because of that.

Cheers

[1] https://tronche.com/gui/x/gwm/html-manual/index.html

-- tomás

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#211137

bw wrote:
> 
> You mean a windows-clone email client?

Looks like you have managed to fix the issue, your replies have a
In-Reply-To header and at least in mutt your replies are now properly
threaded. Thanks for fixing this!

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#211143

On Wed, 2019-07-10 at 07:51 +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote:
> bw wrote:
> > You mean a windows-clone email client?
> 
> Looks like you have managed to fix the issue, your replies have a
> In-Reply-To header and at least in mutt your replies are now properly
> threaded. Thanks for fixing this!

Not sure he has. The In-Reply-To points to his own previous emails, not
the email (judging by the quoting) that he is actually replying to.
Where the headers are set correct, it is when other people have added
his address in the TO: header, so I'm guessing he is replying to those
direct emails.

-- 
Tixy

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#211150

Bw, 9.7.2019 21:45 +0200:

[a mail with proper threading-relevant headers]

Thanks a lot for fixing this!

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