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Groups > linux.debian.user > #210087 > unrolled thread

Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Started byBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
First post2019-06-19 06:30 +0200
Last post2019-07-02 14:50 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 61 — 24 participants

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  Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-19 06:30 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-06-19 08:00 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-19 08:10 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-19 13:40 +0200
      Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-20 07:20 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-06-20 07:40 +0200
          Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-20 09:20 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-20 11:10 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-20 14:10 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-20 13:00 +0200
          Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-20 14:50 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-20 18:40 +0200
              Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-21 21:50 +0200
                Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 01:00 +0200
                  Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 04:30 +0200
                    Re: Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 10:40 +0200
                      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
                        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 17:30 +0200
                          Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-06-22 18:20 +0200
                            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 18:30 +0200
                              Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-22 18:50 +0200
                    Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-22 16:20 +0200
                  Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-22 14:20 +0200
                Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-22 02:40 +0200
                  Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-22 10:10 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
                      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 11:50 +0200
                        Off topic: remaja (teens) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
                          Re: Off topic: remaja (teens) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-22 12:40 +0200
                          Off-topic: Action [Was: Re: Off topic: remaja (teens) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-06-22 13:40 +0200
                          Re: Off topic: remaja (teens) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 23:40 +0200
                            Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-23 01:10 +0200
                              Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 01:50 +0200
                                Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Elmo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 03:00 +0200
                                  Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 09:00 +0200
                                    Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Elmo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 10:00 +0200
                                Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-23 10:50 +0200
                                  Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 16:00 +0200
                                    Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-23 18:00 +0200
                                      Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic:  remaja (teens) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-23 18:30 +0200
                                        Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 19:00 +0200
                                Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-23 11:00 +0200
                                  Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-06-23 12:30 +0200
                                    Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Georgios <gpdsbe@mailbox.org> - 2019-06-23 20:10 +0200
                                      Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-06-23 22:50 +0200
                                        Re: Off topic: Carbon. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-06-23 23:10 +0200
                    Teenagers (was: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-22 16:30 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 01:50 +0200
          Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-06-23 02:10 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-23 11:10 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-06-24 02:40 +0200
              Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-06-24 02:50 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-25 06:00 +0200
      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-06-25 09:10 +0200
      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Aidan Gauland <aidalgol@fastmail.net> - 2019-06-25 10:00 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-25 10:50 +0200
          Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-06-25 14:50 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? andreimpopescu@gmail.com - 2019-07-02 14:50 +0200

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#210087 — Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-19 06:30 +0200
SubjectGiving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yaAop-5zf-1@gated-at.bofh.it>

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hello all Debian Users,

Consider the hypothetical scenario below.

I often encountered cases on systems in television stations when they 
configured sudoers like this snippet below:

%remaja ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

The rationale for above is most programs on such systems can only be 
accessed by users which are member of remaja (teens) group via sudo, so 
their sysadmins giving remaja user group full administrator privileges. 
Is it dangerous?

Regards, Bagas

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#210088

Fromjohn doe <johndoe65534@mail.com>
Date2019-06-19 08:00 +0200
Message-ID<yaBNw-6iY-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210087
On 6/19/2019 6:06 AM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Hello all Debian Users,
>
> Consider the hypothetical scenario below.
>
> I often encountered cases on systems in television stations when they
> configured sudoers like this snippet below:
>
> %remaja ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
>
> The rationale for above is most programs on such systems can only be
> accessed by users which are member of remaja (teens) group via sudo, so
> their sysadmins giving remaja user group full administrator privileges.
> Is it dangerous?
>

We can't answer to this, the pros and cons are to be weighed.

--
John Doe

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#210089 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2019-06-19 08:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yaBXb-6Bl-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210087

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 11:06:59AM +0700, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Hello all Debian Users,
> 
> Consider the hypothetical scenario below.
> 
> I often encountered cases on systems in television stations when
> they configured sudoers like this snippet below:
> 
> %remaja ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> 
> The rationale for above is most programs on such systems can only be
> accessed by users which are member of remaja (teens) group via sudo,
> so their sysadmins giving remaja user group full administrator
> privileges. Is it dangerous?

Yes, but danger's what makes life fun, after all :-)

The most important part would be to explain to the group's members what
this means. As a close second, frequent backups.

Of course, if it's an otherwise vital system extra care would needed
(a backup system or similar).

There's no reason why teens shouldn't be good sysadmins, and you gotta
start learning at some point. It's definitely a Good Thing they don't
grow up as "just" passive smartphone consumers!

Cheers
-- t

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#210095

FromCarl <carlf@panix.com>
Date2019-06-19 13:40 +0200
Message-ID<yaH6y-17a-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210087
On 6/19/19 12:06 AM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>
> Hello all Debian Users,
>
> Consider the hypothetical scenario below.
>
> I often encountered cases on systems in television stations when they 
> configured sudoers like this snippet below:
>
> %remaja ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
>
> The rationale for above is most programs on such systems can only be 
> accessed by users which are member of remaja (teens) group via sudo, 
> so their sysadmins giving remaja user group full administrator 
> privileges. Is it dangerous?
>
> Regards, Bagas
>
That is almost as bad as having no security restrictions at all. The
correct thing to do would be to set permissions on the programs to
allow them to be run by group remaja.

I don't say this often. I would immediately fire the person
responsible for instituting this policy on a "production" system. (It
would be a good policy if the system is intended as an educational
environment to allow the teens to ruin things, and learn from
experience.)
-- 
Carl Fink
carl@finknetwork.com

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#210122 — Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-20 07:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yaXEl-2SC-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210095

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> That is almost as bad as having no security restrictions at all. The
> correct thing to do would be to set permissions on the programs to
> allow them to be run by group remaja.
What I thought that the correct way is to configure sudoers so that 
remaja group can access programs that they absolutely required via sudo 
(e.g. mount for mounting USB sticks).

> I don't say this often. I would immediately fire the person
> responsible for instituting this policy on a "production" system. (It
> would be a good policy if the system is intended as an educational
> environment to allow the teens to ruin things, and learn from
> experience.)
In fact, many television stations have most programs written for teens 
(age 13 and older), so sysadmins there configure sudoers which allows 
teens to behave like sysadmins themselves (by giving them full 
administrator privileges) on their production systems. Also, parental 
monitoring and guidance can reduce likehood of teens breaking such 
systems. Maybe because teens are largest marketshare for TVs.

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#210125

FromRichard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz>
Date2019-06-20 07:40 +0200
Message-ID<yaXXH-2Z4-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210122

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 20/06/19 4:56 PM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>> That is almost as bad as having no security restrictions at all. The
>> correct thing to do would be to set permissions on the programs to
>> allow them to be run by group remaja.
> What I thought that the correct way is to configure sudoers so that
> remaja group can access programs that they absolutely required via sudo
> (e.g. mount for mounting USB sticks).
> 
>> I don't say this often. I would immediately fire the person
>> responsible for instituting this policy on a "production" system. (It
>> would be a good policy if the system is intended as an educational
>> environment to allow the teens to ruin things, and learn from
>> experience.)
> In fact, many television stations have most programs written for teens
> (age 13 and older), so sysadmins there configure sudoers which allows
> teens to behave like sysadmins themselves (by giving them full
> administrator privileges) on their production systems. Also, parental
> monitoring and guidance can reduce likehood of teens breaking such
> systems. Maybe because teens are largest marketshare for TVs.
> 

I think we (or at least I) must be missing some context here. For
starters, this must be some specific group of teenagers. And I'm sure
they're not given permission to take over running the whole TV station.

Is this some specific educational environment? Or is it a TV station
specifically intended to be run by and for teenagers? Something else?

Richard

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#210129 — Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-20 09:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yaZwt-408-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210125

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> I think we (or at least I) must be missing some context here. For
> starters, this must be some specific group of teenagers. And I'm sure
> they're not given permission to take over running the whole TV station.
>
> Is this some specific educational environment? Or is it a TV station
> specifically intended to be run by and for teenagers? Something else?
Richard Hector (richard@walnut.gen.nz), I am considering the case of 
(production) systems on TV stations for general audiences, that is TV 
stations that is watched by all audiences, not just teens. As long as 
someone is aged 13 or older, he/she is teenager. The remaja user group 
is for anyone that his/her age is 13 or older. My concern here is 
whether giving teens full administrator privileges on those production 
systems can be dangerous/vulnerable or not, in fact that psychologically 
they are very unstable.

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#210134 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2019-06-20 11:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yb1eW-55v-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210129
On 2019-06-20, Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think we (or at least I) must be missing some context here. For
>> starters, this must be some specific group of teenagers. And I'm sure
>> they're not given permission to take over running the whole TV station.
>>
>> Is this some specific educational environment? Or is it a TV station
>> specifically intended to be run by and for teenagers? Something else?
> Richard Hector (richard@walnut.gen.nz), I am considering the case of 
> (production) systems on TV stations for general audiences, that is TV 
> stations that is watched by all audiences, not just teens. As long as 
> someone is aged 13 or older, he/she is teenager. The remaja user group 

Normally the teenage category has both a lower and an upper limit, the
latter being 19.

> is for anyone that his/her age is 13 or older. My concern here is 
> whether giving teens full administrator privileges on those production 
> systems can be dangerous/vulnerable or not, in fact that psychologically 
> they are very unstable.
>

If you're giving your psychologically unstable remajas full
administrative privileges you are effectively giving them root; sudo
affords the ability to fine-tune the accorded rights in such a way as to
limit the amount and nature of the havoc your adolescent sudoers may
eventually raise (when and if they do go bonkers).

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#210138 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Fromrhkramer@gmail.com
Date2019-06-20 14:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yb438-6Oq-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210129
On Thursday, June 20, 2019 02:57:18 AM Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> > I think we (or at least I) must be missing some context here. For
> > starters, this must be some specific group of teenagers. And I'm sure
> > they're not given permission to take over running the whole TV station.
> > 
> > Is this some specific educational environment? Or is it a TV station
> > specifically intended to be run by and for teenagers? Something else?
> 
> Richard Hector (richard@walnut.gen.nz), I am considering the case of
> (production) systems on TV stations for general audiences, that is TV
> stations that is watched by all audiences, not just teens. As long as
> someone is aged 13 or older, he/she is teenager. The remaja user group
> is for anyone that his/her age is 13 or older. My concern here is
> whether giving teens full administrator privileges on those production
> systems can be dangerous/vulnerable or not, in fact that psychologically
> they are very unstable.

I guess I don't understand either, and I'd like to.  I'm guessing the teens in 
question work for (or are interns at) the station -- they are not TV viewers 
on some sort of interactive TV which they can control (to some extent) from 
home?

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#210136

FromCarl <carlf@panix.com>
Date2019-06-20 13:00 +0200
Message-ID<yb2Xn-5VO-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210122
On 6/20/19 12:56 AM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>
>> That is almost as bad as having no security restrictions at all. The
>> correct thing to do would be to set permissions on the programs to
>> allow them to be run by group remaja.
> What I thought that the correct way is to configure sudoers so that 
> remaja group can access programs that they absolutely required via 
> sudo (e.g. mount for mounting USB sticks).
I would instead make the specific programs the students/teens should be 
using executable by them without needing sudo. Linux permissions make 
this very straightforward.
>
>> I don't say this often. I would immediately fire the person
>> responsible for instituting this policy on a "production" system. (It
>> would be a good policy if the system is intended as an educational
>> environment to allow the teens to ruin things, and learn from
>> experience.)
> In fact, many television stations have most programs written for teens 
> (age 13 and older), so sysadmins there configure sudoers which allows 
> teens to behave like sysadmins themselves (by giving them full 
> administrator privileges) on their production systems. Also, parental 
> monitoring and guidance can reduce likehood of teens breaking such 
> systems. Maybe because teens are largest marketshare for TVs.
OK, which meaning of "program" are you using here? In American (and UK) 
English, it can mean either "set of instructions that run on a computer" 
or "television entertainment item." You seem to be using it both ways in 
this message or confusing the two.

-- 
Carl Fink
carl@finknetwork.com

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#210140 — Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-20 14:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yb4FP-71p-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210136

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Carl (carlf@panix.com) said:

> OK, which meaning of "program" are you using here? In American (and 
> UK) English, it can mean either "set of instructions that run on a 
> computer" or "television entertainment item." You seem to be using it 
> both ways in this message or confusing the two. 

In this case, "program" means "instructions that run on a computer", or 
"software".

In hypothetical scenario as I described in the starting of this thread, 
I imagine that TV programs run by TV stations can be thought as computer 
programs in TV station's production systems.

> I would instead make the specific programs the students/teens should 
> be using executable by them without needing sudo. Linux permissions 
> make this very straightforward. 
I mean:

# chown root:remaja /opt/teen-programs/bin/* && chmod 755 /opt/teen-programs/bin/*

But we're considering in this thread when most age-restricted programs 
can only be run using sudo, that is, such programs can only be run by 
root or using sudo.

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#210147 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromGene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2019-06-20 18:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<yb8gp-Qm-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210140
On Thursday 20 June 2019 08:30:57 Bagas Sanjaya wrote:

> Carl (carlf@panix.com) said:
> > OK, which meaning of "program" are you using here? In American (and
> > UK) English, it can mean either "set of instructions that run on a
> > computer" or "television entertainment item." You seem to be using
> > it both ways in this message or confusing the two.
>
> In this case, "program" means "instructions that run on a computer",
> or "software".
>
> In hypothetical scenario as I described in the starting of this
> thread, I imagine that TV programs run by TV stations can be thought
> as computer programs in TV station's production systems.
>
> > I would instead make the specific programs the students/teens should
> > be using executable by them without needing sudo. Linux permissions
> > make this very straightforward.
>
> I mean:
>
> # chown root:remaja /opt/teen-programs/bin/* && chmod 755
> /opt/teen-programs/bin/*
>
> But we're considering in this thread when most age-restricted programs
> can only be run using sudo, that is, such programs can only be run by
> root or using sudo.

As a retired Chief Engineer, one of my duties was also the holder of a 
letter designating me as the Chief Operator of that tv station.
So one of my duties was seeing to it that the rules as published in 47 
CFR that applied to both the technical operations, and the legal things 
were enforced. A subscription to that 47 CFR from the GPO, can be a very 
wise expense.  Not knowing something in it is a null/void defense.  
Cover you ass in other words.

What you want to do opens a pandora's box of stuff these teenagers might 
like to see aired.  That means putting their stuff in a permissions 
sandbox that only the chief operator has rights to move the materiel out 
of that sandbox into the broadcast queue. IOW, someone with that letter 
of authority must exist, and the FCC gives him/her that veto power 
because he/she is also the person they'll monetarily fine at $27,000 per 
instance when something airs that shouldn't.

And there are several categories of no-no's. Payola schemes by the 
General Sales Manager, backed by the General Manager himself got shut 
down by me. They went to the owner to get me fired, and he told them to 
go pound sand, I was saving lots of money. That GM got a surprise visit 
from the corporate bookkeeper, and was escorted out on 15 minutes notice 
to collect his personal stuff by a deputy for cooking the books.

Anyway, what you want to do to facilitate their creativity still needs a 
final approval by someone with that letter giving then the power to say 
no.  And likely an IT guy smart enough to stay ahead of their attempts 
to climb that fence.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#210208

FromCarl Fink <carlf@panix.com>
Date2019-06-21 21:50 +0200
Message-ID<ybxHQ-lG-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210147
On 6/20/19 12:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 20 June 2019 08:30:57 Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>
>> In hypothetical scenario as I described in the starting of this
>> thread, I imagine that TV programs run by TV stations can be thought
>> as computer programs in TV station's production systems.
>>
>>> I would instead make the specific programs the students/teens should
>>> be using executable by them without needing sudo. Linux permissions
>>> make this very straightforward.
>> I mean:
>>
>> # chown root:remaja /opt/teen-programs/bin/* && chmod 755
>> /opt/teen-programs/bin/*
>>
>> But we're considering in this thread when most age-restricted programs
>> can only be run using sudo, that is, such programs can only be run by
>> root or using sudo.
> As a retired Chief Engineer, one of my duties was also the holder of a
> letter designating me as the Chief Operator of that tv station.
> So one of my duties was seeing to it that the rules as published in 47
> CFR that applied to both the technical operations, and the legal things
> were enforced. A subscription to that 47 CFR from the GPO, can be a very
> wise expense.  Not knowing something in it is a null/void defense.
> Cover you ass in other words.
>
> What you want to do opens a pandora's box of stuff these teenagers might
> like to see aired.  That means putting their stuff in a permissions
> sandbox that only the chief operator has rights to move the materiel out
> of that sandbox into the broadcast queue. IOW, someone with that letter
> of authority must exist, and the FCC gives him/her that veto power
> because he/she is also the person they'll monetarily fine at $27,000 per
> instance when something airs that shouldn't.

(Lots of snipping above.)

You seem to be assuming that Mr. Banjaya is in the USA. While that is 
not impossible, given the Javanese name and non-USA usage of English, I 
suspect that it is not correct.
-- 
Carl Fink
carl@finknetwork.com

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#210214 — Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 01:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybAFH-2d1-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210208

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Carl Fink wrote:

> You seem to be assuming that Mr. Banjaya is in the USA. While that is 
> not impossible, given the Javanese name and non-USA usage of English, 
> I suspect that it is not correct. 

In Indonesia, the case resemble hypothetical case in this thread, where sysadmins in TV station doesn't care about
least privilege security principle and they gave teens full root privileges, for most programs are for teens.

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#210218 — Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 04:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybDWW-4nU-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210214
Bagas Sanjaya wrote:

> In Indonesia, the case resemble hypothetical case in this thread, where
> sysadmins in TV station doesn't care about least privilege security
> principle and they gave teens full root privileges, for most programs are
> for teens.

What a BS! This comes from Windoz for sure.

The question is contradiction in itself. As soon as you give full access to
anybody, you are out of control and you loose. And yes it is dangerous.

I don't see the point in the discussion. In fact if it is a teen or someone
else does not make any difference.

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#210222 — Re: Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 10:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybJIZ-7Qn-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210218

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> What a BS! This comes from Windoz for sure.

I don't know. Since 2013 most programs (GUI applications) there (TV stations systems) display watermark which stated that
those are for teens (optionally with parental guidance). So children have to wait until 13 in order to fully make use of
those systems.
> I don't see the point in the discussion. In fact if it is a teen or someone
> else does not make any difference.
I'm talking about (production) systems which teens are allowed to do most (administrative?) tasks with sudo, which are
analogous to letting them watch TV programs designed for them, which are majority of programs offered by TV stations in
real life.

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#210232 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Fromrhkramer@gmail.com
Date2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybLrr-uY-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210222
On Saturday, June 22, 2019 04:11:56 AM Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> I don't know. Since 2013 most programs (GUI applications) there (TV
> stations systems) display watermark which stated that those are for teens
> (optionally with parental guidance). So children have to wait until 13 in
> order to fully make use of those systems.

I still don't understand the context -- are these teens somehow working at the 
TV station deciding which shows to be transmitted, or are these teens at home, 
viewing TV, and possibly getting the option to view TV programs being 
broadcast with the watermark that says they must be 13 to view?

> I'm talking about (production) systems which teens are allowed to do most
> (administrative?) tasks with sudo, which are analogous to letting them
> watch TV programs designed for them, which are majority of programs
> offered by TV stations in real life.

Maybe this (last) paragraph answers my question, but it is not really clear to 
me.

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#210251 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 17:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybQ7L-3iw-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210232
rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

> I still don't understand the context -- are these teens somehow working at
> the TV station deciding which shows to be transmitted, or are these teens
> at home, viewing TV, and possibly getting the option to view TV programs
> being broadcast with the watermark that says they must be 13 to view?
> 
>> I'm talking about (production) systems which teens are allowed to do most
>> (administrative?) tasks with sudo, which are analogous to letting them
>> watch TV programs designed for them, which are majority of programs
>> offered by TV stations in real life.
> 
> Maybe this (last) paragraph answers my question, but it is not really
> clear to me.

I also have the feeling I do not know English and computers at all. What
does a teen watching TV programs has to do with sudo and Linux and why
would they need sudo at all? Also the word program is ambiguous in the
context. Is it a TV program or a computer program?

In any case - no one gives root to all to everybody or not known/skilled
people - problems are to be expected.

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#210252 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromBrad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk>
Date2019-06-22 18:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybQU9-3NB-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210251

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 17:21:14 +0200
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello deloptes,

>Is it a TV program or a computer program?

On TV, it's a programme.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Well well well, you just can't tell
My Michelle - Guns 'N' Roses

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#210253 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 18:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybR3P-3QJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210252
Brad Rogers wrote:

>>Is it a TV program or a computer program?
> 
> On TV, it's a programme.
> 

thank you

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