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Groups > linux.debian.user > #210087 > unrolled thread

Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Started byBagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
First post2019-06-19 06:30 +0200
Last post2019-07-02 14:50 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 61 — 24 participants

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Contents

  Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-19 06:30 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-06-19 08:00 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-19 08:10 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-19 13:40 +0200
      Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-20 07:20 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-06-20 07:40 +0200
          Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-20 09:20 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-20 11:10 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-20 14:10 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-20 13:00 +0200
          Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-20 14:50 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-20 18:40 +0200
              Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-21 21:50 +0200
                Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 01:00 +0200
                  Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 04:30 +0200
                    Re: Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 10:40 +0200
                      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
                        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 17:30 +0200
                          Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-06-22 18:20 +0200
                            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 18:30 +0200
                              Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-22 18:50 +0200
                    Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-22 16:20 +0200
                  Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Carl <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-06-22 14:20 +0200
                Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-22 02:40 +0200
                  Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-22 10:10 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
                      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 11:50 +0200
                        Off topic: remaja (teens) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
                          Re: Off topic: remaja (teens) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-22 12:40 +0200
                          Off-topic: Action [Was: Re: Off topic: remaja (teens) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-06-22 13:40 +0200
                          Re: Off topic: remaja (teens) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-22 23:40 +0200
                            Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-23 01:10 +0200
                              Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 01:50 +0200
                                Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Elmo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 03:00 +0200
                                  Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 09:00 +0200
                                    Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Elmo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 10:00 +0200
                                Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-06-23 10:50 +0200
                                  Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 16:00 +0200
                                    Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-23 18:00 +0200
                                      Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic:  remaja (teens) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-23 18:30 +0200
                                        Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 19:00 +0200
                                Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-23 11:00 +0200
                                  Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-06-23 12:30 +0200
                                    Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Georgios <gpdsbe@mailbox.org> - 2019-06-23 20:10 +0200
                                      Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-06-23 22:50 +0200
                                        Re: Off topic: Carbon. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-06-23 23:10 +0200
                    Teenagers (was: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
                    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-06-22 16:30 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-06-23 01:50 +0200
          Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-06-23 02:10 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-06-23 11:10 +0200
            Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-06-24 02:40 +0200
              Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-06-24 02:50 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> - 2019-06-25 06:00 +0200
      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-06-25 09:10 +0200
      Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through  sudo - dangerous? Aidan Gauland <aidalgol@fastmail.net> - 2019-06-25 10:00 +0200
        Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-06-25 10:50 +0200
          Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-06-25 14:50 +0200
    Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges  through sudo - dangerous? andreimpopescu@gmail.com - 2019-07-02 14:50 +0200

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#210254 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2019-06-22 18:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybRnc-3Xh-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210253
On 2019-06-22, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad Rogers wrote:
>
>>>Is it a TV program or a computer program?
>> 
>> On TV, it's a programme.
>> 
>
> thank you

In British English.

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#210224 — Re: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybJSF-7TR-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210218

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 04:21:57AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> 
> > In Indonesia, the case resemble hypothetical case in this thread, where
> > sysadmins in TV station doesn't care about least privilege security
> > principle and they gave teens full root privileges, for most programs are
> > for teens.
> 
> What a BS! This comes from Windoz for sure.
> 
> The question is contradiction in itself. As soon as you give full access to
> anybody, you are out of control and you loose. And yes it is dangerous.

I strongly disagree. Trust is a social issue, not a technical one. So,
IMHO, you have to approach it by social means.

Technical "fences" are just a tool -- but how you use that tool must be
clear well before you take it out of the cupboard.

Cheers
-- t

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#210248 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromGene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2019-06-22 16:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybP22-2Hp-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210218
On Friday 21 June 2019 22:21:57 deloptes wrote:

> Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> > In Indonesia, the case resemble hypothetical case in this thread,
> > where sysadmins in TV station doesn't care about least privilege
> > security principle and they gave teens full root privileges, for
> > most programs are for teens.
>
> What a BS! This comes from Windoz for sure.
>
> The question is contradiction in itself. As soon as you give full
> access to anybody, you are out of control and you loose. And yes it is
> dangerous.

+100 (or more)

> I don't see the point in the discussion. In fact if it is a teen or
> someone else does not make any difference.

Also in violent agreement.

Frankly I'll make another statement based on over 20 years with that 
letter in my office file cabinet, windoze machines are only used in news 
and sales, on their own subnet that is distinctly wired separately from 
any of the linux machines used involved with day to day air operations. 
Even incoming spots from national sales agencies, are previewed for 
content before being placed on a transfer server that production can 
access to move them to the air queue.  News, because of its more 
realtime nature, has faster access in that a breaking story may still be 
in the editor when the news open graphic is playing.

I have no idea what the fine structure is where the OP is posting from.  
Here its $27,500 per instance. I will say that facilities I have been in 
charge of, have never been assessed such a fine. I may arrive in the 
morning to find news has smashed up every camera they have, but that 
stuff gets checked before I go ripping cameras apart to repair them. 
Most camera repairs were a piece of cake for me.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#210241

FromCarl <carlf@panix.com>
Date2019-06-22 14:20 +0200
Message-ID<ybN9T-1zG-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210214

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 6/21/19 6:35 PM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Carl Fink wrote:
>
>> You seem to be assuming that Mr. Banjaya is in the USA. While that is 
>> not impossible, given the Javanese name and non-USA usage of English, 
>> I suspect that it is not correct. 
> In Indonesia, the case resemble hypothetical case in this thread, where sysadmins in TV station doesn't care about
> least privilege security principle and they gave teens full root privileges, for most programs are for teens.
I apologize for my error in typing your name. I seem to have combined 
your personal and family names, which was foolish. I meant no offense.

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#210216 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromGene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net>
Date2019-06-22 02:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybCet-3d7-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210208
On Friday 21 June 2019 15:41:00 Carl Fink wrote:

> On 6/20/19 12:36 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 20 June 2019 08:30:57 Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> >> In hypothetical scenario as I described in the starting of this
> >> thread, I imagine that TV programs run by TV stations can be
> >> thought as computer programs in TV station's production systems.
> >>
> >>> I would instead make the specific programs the students/teens
> >>> should be using executable by them without needing sudo. Linux
> >>> permissions make this very straightforward.
> >>
> >> I mean:
> >>
> >> # chown root:remaja /opt/teen-programs/bin/* && chmod 755
> >> /opt/teen-programs/bin/*
> >>
> >> But we're considering in this thread when most age-restricted
> >> programs can only be run using sudo, that is, such programs can
> >> only be run by root or using sudo.
> >
> > As a retired Chief Engineer, one of my duties was also the holder of
> > a letter designating me as the Chief Operator of that tv station. So
> > one of my duties was seeing to it that the rules as published in 47
> > CFR that applied to both the technical operations, and the legal
> > things were enforced. A subscription to that 47 CFR from the GPO,
> > can be a very wise expense.  Not knowing something in it is a
> > null/void defense. Cover you ass in other words.
> >
> > What you want to do opens a pandora's box of stuff these teenagers
> > might like to see aired.  That means putting their stuff in a
> > permissions sandbox that only the chief operator has rights to move
> > the materiel out of that sandbox into the broadcast queue. IOW,
> > someone with that letter of authority must exist, and the FCC gives
> > him/her that veto power because he/she is also the person they'll
> > monetarily fine at $27,000 per instance when something airs that
> > shouldn't.
>
> (Lots of snipping above.)
>
> You seem to be assuming that Mr. Banjaya is in the USA. While that is
> not impossible, given the Javanese name and non-USA usage of English,
> I suspect that it is not correct.

Thats entirely possible Carl, so you could well be correct, but after the 
war, they borrowed very heavily from us for their own com rules, so even 
now I wouldn't expect huge deviations from our rules. The final answer 
should come from whatever document they maintain that is the equ of our 
47 CFR.  And even if I had access to it, I read very very little 
Japanese, most of that from the engrish translations of Sony manuals.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#210221 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2019-06-22 10:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybJfX-7GY-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210216
On 2019-06-22, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>>
>> You seem to be assuming that Mr. Banjaya is in the USA. While that is
>> not impossible, given the Javanese name and non-USA usage of English,
>> I suspect that it is not correct.
>
> Thats entirely possible Carl, so you could well be correct, but after the 
> war, they borrowed very heavily from us for their own com rules, so even 
> now I wouldn't expect huge deviations from our rules. The final answer 
> should come from whatever document they maintain that is the equ of our 
> 47 CFR.  And even if I had access to it, I read very very little 
> Japanese, most of that from the engrish translations of Sony manuals.

Not Japanese, but *Javanese*. Remaja is Javanese (derived from Indonesian, I
think) for teenager, who apparently are a PITA world-wide, which is
somehow comforting.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett

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#210225 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybJSF-7TR-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210221

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 10:40:12AM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Curt wrote:
> > [...] teenager, who apparently are a PITA world-wide
> 
> Especially for the carbon dioxide producers. :))

;-))

-- t

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#210227 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

From"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date2019-06-22 10:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybJSF-7TR-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210221
Hi,

Curt wrote:
> [...] teenager, who apparently are a PITA world-wide

Especially for the carbon dioxide producers. :))

> which is somehow comforting.

Yeah. Our past enthusiasm did not vanish. It's just with somebody else now.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#210229 — Re: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 11:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Giving remaja (teens) group full administrator privileges through sudo - dangerous?
Message-ID<ybKOJ-8tJ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210227
Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Curt wrote:
>> [...] teenager, who apparently are a PITA world-wide
> 
> Especially for the carbon dioxide producers. :))

Please don't start this! It is a big business and what happens is like
advertisement for it. I wouldn't say this if someone would mention the big
cargo ships or airplanes ... but no ... only BS around this topic. Please
stop!

BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)

regards

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#210231 — Off topic: remaja (teens)

From"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date2019-06-22 12:30 +0200
SubjectOff topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybLrr-uY-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210229
Hi,

deloptes wrote:
> Please stop!

You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?


> BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)

Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle, not of the
unearthing of carbon for oxidation. I'm doing my best to reduce the
profits which carbon diggers can make from me.

But i am not a teenager any more. So i am glad to see how well they are
doing their job of annoying us in a constructive way.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#210234 — Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2019-06-22 12:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybLB8-yb-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210231

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 12:23:02PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> deloptes wrote:
> > Please stop!
> 
> You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?

:-)

> > BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)

So am I, BTW. Nature hasn't endowed us with photosynthesis, alas.

> Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle [...]

> [...] i am glad to see how well they are
> doing their job of annoying us in a constructive way.

+1, on both accounts!

Cheers
-- t

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#210238 — Off-topic: Action [Was: Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)

FromErik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net>
Date2019-06-22 13:40 +0200
SubjectOff-topic: Action [Was: Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybMxc-17p-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210231
On 22.06.19 12:23, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> deloptes wrote:
> > Please stop!
> 
> You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?
> 
> 
> > BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)
> 
> Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle, not of the
> unearthing of carbon for oxidation. I'm doing my best to reduce the
> profits which carbon diggers can make from me.

Sitting here, in the down under winter, heating with carbon-neutral biomass
as I've done for the last 30 years, doing paperwork to progress my
off-grid 100% solar and biomass (i.e. stored solar) powered rural build,
I'd suggest that moving at least 2m above current sea level before the
end of the century, is not wasted effort.

> But i am not a teenager any more. So i am glad to see how well they are
> doing their job of annoying us in a constructive way.

Not all old folk are slow learners. I'm 65, and am accelerating the
action I've been taking for over three decades. What we're seeing
socially is the late adopters finally catching on. (Including bankers
and insurers, showing the problem is not imminent - it is here now.)

With Chennai running out of water now, and the Himalayas losing 1% of
snow mass yearly (28% already gone), the CIA's projection of water wars
by 2030 is optimistic, I expect. Here, in southern Australia, our farm
is destocked, because the last dam, dug in a watercourse, deepened to 6
metres, has run dry. Neighbours dams have been dry for a year. Never
before has there been no water at all.

The national (arguably vanity) rice crop over the last three years is:
807,000 ; 635,000 ; 52,000 tonnes. Hay prices have tripled, despite a
steady high stock slaughter rate. Usually one of the world's largest
wheat exporters, we are now importing increasing quantities to try to
keep core breeding stock alive. 

The extra 1 billion human mouths to feed every 12 years puts increasing
strain on decreasing food supply reliability. Loss of farmland to
suburbia is compounding the problem, also due to water use.

Feedback effects are small snowballs yet, but measurably growing:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190612-the-poisons-released-by-melting-arctic-ice

We're slow to the party down here, but even we can pick up our game:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-14/australias-largest-solar-and-battery-farm-opens-in-kerang/11209666

Let's all act before "Children as young as 10 were being sent to fetch
water a train ride away, hauling back containers of water almost as big
as they were." becomes symptomatic of the next generation's fate:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-22/chennais-telling-the-globe-a-story-about-water-scarcity/11229084

Erik

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#210265 — Re: Off topic: remaja (teens)

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-22 23:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybVTP-6JS-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210231
Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> deloptes wrote:
>> Please stop!
> 
> You know what happens if you try to issue commands here, do you ?
> 

I said please - it is not a command - are you German? Your name sounds
German and your acting as well ;-) - don't get affected, but more often
recently interacting with Germans I make same experience. No idea why you
tend to overcomplicate things and see intentions that do not exist.

> 
>> BTW you are also a carbon dioxide producer ;-)
> 
> Voluntarily i'm only part of the athmospheric carbon cycle, not of the
> unearthing of carbon for oxidation. I'm doing my best to reduce the
> profits which carbon diggers can make from me.
> 

Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI

(it is not a command though no please :) )

regards

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#210268 — Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

From"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date2019-06-23 01:10 +0200
SubjectOff topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybXiV-7Ii-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210265
Hi,

(Actually this deviated sub-thread was intended to be about pros and
 cons of teenagers, not about our inevitable end.)

deloptes wrote:
> I said please - it is not a command - are you German? Your name sounds
> German and your acting as well ;-)

Juhwohl. "Please" with exclamation mark is to be considered imperial.
Tsuck Marsh.


> No idea why you tend to overcomplicate things

I have to admit that
  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treibhauseffekt
is much more 4 pi R ^ 2 than
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect


> Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI

Isn't the combination of "youtube" and "think" a classical oxymoron ?

If the video is about growing biomass: What grows must rot some day,
unless it gets sedimented. Biomass has to wander from the athmospheric
carbon cycle to the geological cycle in order to get climate-inactive
for a longer time.
I.e. the surplus unearthed carbon must be burried again, not vitalized.

Not to forget that biomass tends to produce methane, which is worse
than carbon dioxide for about twenty years before it becomes carbon
dioxide.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#210270 — Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-23 01:50 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybXVD-7Vl-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210268
Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Juhwohl. "Please" with exclamation mark is to be considered imperial.
> Tsuck Marsh.
> 

No - you missed some forms in school. For example

Der Imperativ ist im Deutschen sehr gebräuchlich, weil wir hier mit wenigen
Wörtern sagen können, was der andere tun soll. Für Nicht-Muttersprachler
klingt diese Form manchmal etwas unhöflich, das ist aber normalerweise
nicht so gemeint. Natürlich kommt es immer auf den Ton an. Um höflicher zu
klingen, können wir das Wörtchen bitte verwenden.

Beispiel:
    Fahren Sie mich bitte zum Bahnhof!
    Schnallen Sie sich bitte an!
https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ

> 
>> No idea why you tend to overcomplicate things
> 
> I have to admit that
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treibhauseffekt
> is much more 4 pi R ^ 2 than
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
> 

too much wrong thinking - there are two fraction in science- mainstream
supports CO2 lie. Look at arguments on both sides from real scientists (Not
the face Potsdamer Institut für Klimaforschung <- these are fake).

> 
>> Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI
> 
> Isn't the combination of "youtube" and "think" a classical oxymoron ?
> 
No - it is TED talks - science for people like you and me

> If the video is about growing biomass: What grows must rot some day,
> unless it gets sedimented. Biomass has to wander from the athmospheric
> carbon cycle to the geological cycle in order to get climate-inactive
> for a longer time.
> I.e. the surplus unearthed carbon must be burried again, not vitalized.
> 
> Not to forget that biomass tends to produce methane, which is worse
> than carbon dioxide for about twenty years before it becomes carbon
> dioxide.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day :)

Again too much thinking - you should be making cars, no thinking too much :D
It is repetitive pattern in my experiences - some friends left Germany for
good reasons and they are born Germans.

regards

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#210273 — Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

FromElmo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-23 03:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ybZ1n-5C-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210270

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, deloptes wrote:

> Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>
>> Juhwohl. "Please" with exclamation mark is to be considered imperial.
>> Tsuck Marsh.
>>
>
> No - you missed some forms in school. For example
>
> Der Imperativ ist im Deutschen sehr gebräuchlich, weil wir hier mit wenigen
> Wörtern sagen können, was der andere tun soll. Für Nicht-Muttersprachler
> klingt diese Form manchmal etwas unhöflich, das ist aber normalerweise
> nicht so gemeint. Natürlich kommt es immer auf den Ton an. Um höflicher zu
> klingen, können wir das Wörtchen bitte verwenden.
>
> Beispiel:
>    Fahren Sie mich bitte zum Bahnhof!
>    Schnallen Sie sich bitte an!
> https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ

sounds nonsensical to me. you can say, "I need to get to the train 
station, any chance of a ride? hope I'm not imposing!", in German as 
easily as in English.

and you can say, "take me to the train-station" as peremptorily in 
English as in German.

part of the error in the quotation is the implication that Germans are 
curt because they need fewer words to say things.

first, "take me to the train-station (please)." has pretty much the 
same number of words.

second, Germans are not necessarily curt.

I wonder if this Lingolia groups spreads similar cultural stereotypes 
about the other languages (or rather, people using those languages)?

I think I'll return to lurking to avoid adding more to this 
unfortunate turn of discussion.

fjd

>>> No idea why you tend to overcomplicate things
>>
>> I have to admit that
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treibhauseffekt
>> is much more 4 pi R ^ 2 than
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
>>
>
> too much wrong thinking - there are two fraction in science- mainstream
> supports CO2 lie. Look at arguments on both sides from real scientists (Not
> the face Potsdamer Institut für Klimaforschung <- these are fake).
>
>>
>>> Watch this and think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI
>>
>> Isn't the combination of "youtube" and "think" a classical oxymoron ?
>>
> No - it is TED talks - science for people like you and me
>
>> If the video is about growing biomass: What grows must rot some day,
>> unless it gets sedimented. Biomass has to wander from the athmospheric
>> carbon cycle to the geological cycle in order to get climate-inactive
>> for a longer time.
>> I.e. the surplus unearthed carbon must be burried again, not vitalized.
>>
>> Not to forget that biomass tends to produce methane, which is worse
>> than carbon dioxide for about twenty years before it becomes carbon
>> dioxide.
>>
>>
>> Have a nice day :)
>
> Again too much thinking - you should be making cars, no thinking too much :D
> It is repetitive pattern in my experiences - some friends left Germany for
> good reasons and they are born Germans.
>
> regards
>
>

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#210283 — Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-23 09:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<yc4DL-3wj-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210273
Elmo wrote:

> and you can say, "take me to the train-station" as peremptorily in
> English as in German.
> 
> part of the error in the quotation is the implication that Germans are
> curt because they need fewer words to say things.
> 
> first, "take me to the train-station (please)." has pretty much the
> same number of words.

I don't know about this, but presuming imperative as a command and not as a
request is too much for me and on top of this saying "You know what
happens ..." . This is also the 3rd German with repetitive behavior
pattern. I suspect the food and/or water and/or education quality in
Germany, but do not have scientific facts :). The fact is they voted 4
times for crook Merkel, which speaks for it self but I do not know of
course who Thomas Schmitt voted for :) (or the other two individuals)

Anyway it was not meant to be a command but a request to stop this CO2 BS.

regards

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#210284 — Re: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

FromElmo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-23 10:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<yc5zP-43y-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210283
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, deloptes wrote:

> Elmo wrote:
>
>> and you can say, "take me to the train-station" as peremptorily in
>> English as in German.
>>
>> part of the error in the quotation is the implication that Germans are
>> curt because they need fewer words to say things.
>>
>> first, "take me to the train-station (please)." has pretty much the
>> same number of words.
>
> I don't know about this, but presuming imperative as a command and not as a
> request is too much for me and on top of this saying "You know what
> happens ..." . This is also the 3rd German with repetitive behavior
> pattern.

every sane person I know has repetitive behavior patterns.

> I suspect the food and/or water and/or education quality in Germany, 
> but do not have scientific facts :). The fact is they voted 4 times 
> for crook Merkel, which speaks for it self but I do not know of 
> course who Thomas Schmitt voted for :) (or the other two 
> individuals)
>
> Anyway it was not meant to be a command but a request to stop this CO2 BS.

I think it may be possible you don't know how *you* sound to some. 
this sort of thing happens a lot.

ok, danke for listening!

fjd

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#210285 — Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

From"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net>
Date2019-06-23 10:50 +0200
SubjectOff topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<yc6md-4y7-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210270
Hi,

deloptes wrote:
> https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ

Reminds me somewhat of
  "The Hungarian Phrasebook Sketch"
  http://www.montypython.net/scripts/phrasebk.php
(There is a lengthy link list before the sketch text begins.)

  "Publisher: I wish to plead incompetence."


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#210299 — Re: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)

FromNicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com>
Date2019-06-23 16:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Off topic: German. Was: Off topic: Carbon. Was: Off topic: remaja (teens)
Message-ID<ycbce-7lH-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#210285

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

"If I told you you had beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"
-same sketch

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 3:45 AM Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> deloptes wrote:
> > https://deutsch.lingolia.com/de/grammatik/verben/imperativ
>
> Reminds me somewhat of
>   "The Hungarian Phrasebook Sketch"
>   http://www.montypython.net/scripts/phrasebk.php
> (There is a lengthy link list before the sketch text begins.)
>
>   "Publisher: I wish to plead incompetence."
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>

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