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Dual Boot Two Debian Versions

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  Dual Boot Two Debian Versions "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-06-10 16:10 +0200
    Re: Dual Boot Two Debian Versions Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-06-10 20:10 +0200
    Re: Dual Boot Two Debian Versions David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-06-11 04:50 +0200
    Re: Dual Boot Two Debian Versions songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2019-06-11 13:40 +0200
      Re: Dual Boot Two Debian Versions Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-06-11 20:30 +0200
        Re: Dual Boot Two Debian Versions "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-06-11 21:50 +0200
          Re: Dual Boot Two Debian Versions Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-06-12 21:20 +0200

#209797 — Dual Boot Two Debian Versions

My Debian platform has four drives:

NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
sda 8:0 0 465.8G 0 disk
??????sda1 8:1 0 457.9G 0 part /
??????sda2 8:2 0 1K 0 part
??????sda5 8:5 0 7.9G 0 part [SWAP]
sdb 8:16 0 1.8T 0 disk
??????sdb1 8:17 0 1.8T 0 part /sdb1
??????sdb2 8:18 0 1K 0 part
??????sdb5 8:21 0 7.9G 0 part
sdc 8:32 0 465.8G 0 disk
??????sdc1 8:33 0 465.8G 0 part /sdc1
sr0 11:0 1 2K 0 rom

sda is a 500 GB SSD, currently the boot drive, running Stretch
sdb is a 2 TB mechanical hard drive, used for storage and
sbc is a 500 GD SSD, containg a number of computational chemistry 
applications that I use for my research.

I am planning on adding a 1 TB SSD to the system to be dedicated to 
Buster (currently Testing).

I know that if I select the new drive (for the purpose of this note, 
sdd) for Buster during the installation process from the iso DVD, that 
Buster will be installed on sdd and grub will show that as the boot 
drive. There would also be an entry in grub for Stretch on sda.

Herein lies the problem, sda is the boot drive, but Buster would not be 
a grub entry. Whenever I reboot the system, Buster will be hidden. A 
workaround would be to hit the appropriate key during the initial stages 
of the boot process to open the Bios and then manually select Buster to 
boot.

Couple of questions:

Will installing Buster on sdd do anything to make Stretch unbootable?
Is there a way that I can add Buster to the Stretch Grub Boot Screen? 
Perhaps grub-customizer?

I know this is rather convoluted, but it is essential, for non technical 
reasons to keep Stretch available while I am using Buster.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.          Life is a fuzzy set
www.molecular-modeling.net         Stochastic and multivariate
(614)312-7528(c)
Skype:  smolnar1

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#209805

Le 10/06/2019 à 16:04, Stephen P. Molnar a écrit :
> 
> sda is a 500 GB SSD, currently the boot drive, running Stretch
(...)
> I am planning on adding a 1 TB SSD to the system to be dedicated to 
> Buster (currently Testing).
> 
> I know that if I select the new drive (for the purpose of this note, 
> sdd) for Buster during the installation process from the iso DVD, that 
> Buster will be installed on sdd and grub will show that as the boot 
> drive.

Not necessarily. You can choose to install GRUB on any drive. But I 
would not recommend to install in any other drive than Buster's.

> Will installing Buster on sdd do anything to make Stretch unbootable?

Yes, if you choose to install GRUB on Stretch's drive (sda).

> Is there a way that I can add Buster to the Stretch Grub Boot Screen? 

Of course. Just boot Stretch, make sure os-prober is installed and 
GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER is not set to "true" in /etc/default/grub, and 
run update-grub.

This method is easy but has the disadvantage that Stretch's GRUB menu is 
not automatically updated after Buster's kernel changes. Alternatively 
you can add a custom menu entry in Stretch's GRUB config to chainload 
Buster's GRUB or load Buster's GRUB config.

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#209812

On 6/10/19 7:04 AM, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> My Debian platform has four drives:
> 
> NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
> sda 8:0 0 465.8G 0 disk
> ??????sda1 8:1 0 457.9G 0 part /
> ??????sda2 8:2 0 1K 0 part
> ??????sda5 8:5 0 7.9G 0 part [SWAP]
> sdb 8:16 0 1.8T 0 disk
> ??????sdb1 8:17 0 1.8T 0 part /sdb1
> ??????sdb2 8:18 0 1K 0 part
> ??????sdb5 8:21 0 7.9G 0 part
> sdc 8:32 0 465.8G 0 disk
> ??????sdc1 8:33 0 465.8G 0 part /sdc1
> sr0 11:0 1 2K 0 rom
> 
> sda is a 500 GB SSD, currently the boot drive, running Stretch
> sdb is a 2 TB mechanical hard drive, used for storage and
> sbc is a 500 GD SSD, containg a number of computational chemistry 
> applications that I use for my research.
> 
> I am planning on adding a 1 TB SSD to the system to be dedicated to 
> Buster (currently Testing).
> 
> I know that if I select the new drive (for the purpose of this note, 
> sdd) for Buster during the installation process from the iso DVD, that 
> Buster will be installed on sdd and grub will show that as the boot 
> drive. There would also be an entry in grub for Stretch on sda.
> 
> Herein lies the problem, sda is the boot drive, but Buster would not be 
> a grub entry. Whenever I reboot the system, Buster will be hidden. A 
> workaround would be to hit the appropriate key during the initial stages 
> of the boot process to open the Bios and then manually select Buster to 
> boot.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> 
> Will installing Buster on sdd do anything to make Stretch unbootable?
> Is there a way that I can add Buster to the Stretch Grub Boot Screen? 
> Perhaps grub-customizer?
> 
> I know this is rather convoluted, but it is essential, for non technical 
> reasons to keep Stretch available while I am using Buster.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

HDD's, SSD's, USB flash drives, optical drives, etc., fail.  I have 
dealt with more than a few lately.  It sounds like you are getting the 
point where you should consider redundancy.


I prefer small (16+ GB), single SSD's or USB flash drives for system 
disks.  Redundancy consists of periodic and on-demand images, daily 
backups, and keeping configuration file changes in a version control system.


I partition my Debian and FreeBSD system drives with 1 GB boot, 1 GB 
swap, and 10 to 12 GB root:

1.  I can use 16+ GB USB flash drives, HDD's, and SSD's for system 
images.  All are readily available and inexpensive.

2.  One device is easier to administer than two devices in a mirror, and 
only requires one bay and one port.

3.  I use lowest-common denominator partitioning schemes (MBR) and boot 
loaders (BIOS), so that any image on any device can boot in any machine.

4.  The small size makes it practical to take images on a regular basis, 
and to retain a few copies for each system.


I use large, enterprise HDD's in a mirror for data.  (Unused/ old stock 
enterprise SATA disks are surprisingly affordable.)


For your situation, I would forget the 1 TB SSD, get another 2 TB HDD, 
and rebuild/ migrate into one or two computers:

1.  Alternative #1 -- one computer:

     a.  Install Stretch onto a high-quality 16 GB USB 3.0 flash drive. 
Install virtual machine software.

     b.  Set up the two 500 GB SSD's as a mirror.  Build a Stretch VM. 
Build a Buster VM.  Create a directory that is shared into both VM's. 
Install the chemistry software there.

     c.  Set up the two 2 TB HDD's as a mirror.  Create a directory that 
is shared into both VM's.  Install data there.

2.  Alternatively #2 -- two computers:

     a.  Workstation with 16 GB USB flash drive, two 500 GB SSD mirror, 
Stretch VM, Buster VM, and chemistry software, as above.

     b.  File server with Stretch on 16 GB USB flash drive and data on 
two 2 TB mirror.  Share data via Samba.


Make sure you have several large HDD's for backups.  I have three 
desktop 3 TB drives in a rotation scheme for backups, archives, and 
images.  Docking bays and drive drawers are especially useful:

 
https://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/Black-Serial-ATA-Drive-Drawer-with-Shock-Absorbers-Professional-Series~DRW115SATBK


David

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#209814

Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> My Debian platform has four drives:
>
> NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
> sda 8:0 0 465.8G 0 disk
> ??????sda1 8:1 0 457.9G 0 part /
> ??????sda2 8:2 0 1K 0 part
> ??????sda5 8:5 0 7.9G 0 part [SWAP]
> sdb 8:16 0 1.8T 0 disk
> ??????sdb1 8:17 0 1.8T 0 part /sdb1
> ??????sdb2 8:18 0 1K 0 part
> ??????sdb5 8:21 0 7.9G 0 part
> sdc 8:32 0 465.8G 0 disk
> ??????sdc1 8:33 0 465.8G 0 part /sdc1
> sr0 11:0 1 2K 0 rom
>
> sda is a 500 GB SSD, currently the boot drive, running Stretch
> sdb is a 2 TB mechanical hard drive, used for storage and
> sbc is a 500 GD SSD, containg a number of computational chemistry 
> applications that I use for my research.
>
> I am planning on adding a 1 TB SSD to the system to be dedicated to 
> Buster (currently Testing).
>
> I know that if I select the new drive (for the purpose of this note, 
> sdd) for Buster during the installation process from the iso DVD, that 
> Buster will be installed on sdd and grub will show that as the boot 
> drive. There would also be an entry in grub for Stretch on sda.
>
> Herein lies the problem, sda is the boot drive, but Buster would not be 
> a grub entry. Whenever I reboot the system, Buster will be hidden. A 
> workaround would be to hit the appropriate key during the initial stages 
> of the boot process to open the Bios and then manually select Buster to 
> boot.
>
> Couple of questions:
>
> Will installing Buster on sdd do anything to make Stretch unbootable?
> Is there a way that I can add Buster to the Stretch Grub Boot Screen? 
> Perhaps grub-customizer?
>
> I know this is rather convoluted, but it is essential, for non technical 
> reasons to keep Stretch available while I am using Buster.
>
> Thanks in advance.

  read through this whole thing since some of my
comments are questionable, but perhaps others will
be more sure.  :)

  which do you want to be your default boot (when you
start up your machine what do you want to come up if
you do nothing at the grub menu (testing or stable)?

  because of the requirement to keep stable available
i would always keep a spare USB stick with stable on
it aside from the stable install on that machine.  once
in a while i update it, but not too often (two or three
times a year).

  the netinst images can also be used as backup boot
and rescue tools but i prefer having my favorite 
editors, web browser and desktop already set up to
go if needed (i need bigger fonts to see well enough
from the distance i am at from my screen).

  my own suggestion to avoid complications during an
install is to shut down the machine, unplug the 
devices you won't want to install or be messed with
(keep track of where they were plugged in) and then
plug in the new device and do your testing install.

  what i'm not sure of is if you need to bother with
putting the grub bootloader on it so at the end 
where it asks you perhaps you can skip that step.

  shut down the system and then plug the other 
devices in and see if the system will then boot
back to your stable setup.  it should since you've
not messed with the boot loader.

  once you are root you can run os-prober and 
update-grub in stable and see if it picks up
your testing partition.

  if it does then you might be done, but the default
grub menu boot entry might need to be fixed (reboot
and see if it is what you want).  if it needs to be
adjusted you can do that in /etc/defaults/ and edit
the file grub and change the entry in there for
the default.

  since i'm not sure if those last steps will work 
or not (i haven't done a testing install since last
spring) and i don't run grub any more.

  just remember that when you run update-grub you
want to do it in stable.

  i've not liked how grub has behaved at times with
chain loading and such so i gave up on it.  with my
new machine i use UEFI and refind which make sense 
to me and they do what i'd like.  if needed i can
boot this machine using the legacy bios and grub 
but i rarely bother.


  songbird

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#209822

Le 11/06/2019 à 13:36, songbird a écrit :
> 
>    what i'm not sure of is if you need to bother with
> putting the grub bootloader on it so at the end
> where it asks you perhaps you can skip that step.

IMO installing GRUB can be desirable for two reasons.

1) Obviously, it allows the drive to boot by itself so that you can move 
it into another machine, or remove the current boot drive, or change the 
boot order.

The OP uses legacy boot, but be aware that this won't work the same with 
EFI boot : installing a second instance of a Debian system will 
overwrite the existing EFI boot entry "debian".

2) It creates a grub.cfg file which provides hints about kernel 
parameters and so on when running update-grub from another system.

Warning : you should disable os-prober when running update-grub on a 
non-boot system, otherwise it may happen that update-grub adds duplicate 
menu entries (sometimes hundreds !).

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#209825

On 06/11/2019 02:20 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 11/06/2019 ?? 13:36, songbird a ??crit :
>>
>>    what i'm not sure of is if you need to bother with
>> putting the grub bootloader on it so at the end
>> where it asks you perhaps you can skip that step.
>
> IMO installing GRUB can be desirable for two reasons.
>
> 1) Obviously, it allows the drive to boot by itself so that you can 
> move it into another machine, or remove the current boot drive, or 
> change the boot order.
>
> The OP uses legacy boot, but be aware that this won't work the same 
> with EFI boot : installing a second instance of a Debian system will 
> overwrite the existing EFI boot entry "debian".
>
> 2) It creates a grub.cfg file which provides hints about kernel 
> parameters and so on when running update-grub from another system.
>
> Warning : you should disable os-prober when running update-grub on a 
> non-boot system, otherwise it may happen that update-grub adds 
> duplicate menu entries (sometimes hundreds !).
>
>

I'm the OP and now I'm concerned and rather confused. Fortunately, I 
haven't installed the new drive at this point.

Should I, or should I not, install the the Buster grub sub-directory on 
sdd, the drive on which I intend installing Buster?  My understanding 
has been that I could install Buster, but not boot it at the end of the 
installation, bur rather close buster, reboot the computer into Stretch 
as root and then run update-grub in Stretch. Is this still a safe way to 
proceed?

My intent is to remove Stretch from the platform once that I'm confident 
with the performance of Buster, and the inevitable first problems with a 
new version of the OS have been resolved. But now I wondering about that 
course of action.

Please be advised that I'm a Chemist, not a Computer Engineer. Further 
comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.          Life is a fuzzy set
www.molecular-modeling.net        Stochastic and multivariate
(614)312-7528(c)
Skype:  smolnar1

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#209844

Le 11/06/2019 à 21:45, Stephen P. Molnar a écrit :
> 
> On 06/11/2019 02:20 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>
>> IMO installing GRUB can be desirable for two reasons.
>>
>> 1) Obviously, it allows the drive to boot by itself so that you can 
>> move it into another machine, or remove the current boot drive, or 
>> change the boot order.
>>
>> The OP uses legacy boot, but be aware that this won't work the same 
>> with EFI boot : installing a second instance of a Debian system will 
>> overwrite the existing EFI boot entry "debian".
>>
>> 2) It creates a grub.cfg file which provides hints about kernel 
>> parameters and so on when running update-grub from another system.

> Should I, or should I not, install the the Buster grub sub-directory on 
> sdd, the drive on which I intend installing Buster?

I thought I was clear enough in my previous post : I recommend to 
install GRUB with Buster on its own drive for the two reasons exposed above.

> My understanding 
> has been that I could install Buster, but not boot it at the end of the 
> installation,

Why not ?

> but rather close buster, reboot the computer into Stretch 
> as root and then run update-grub in Stretch. Is this still a safe way to 
> proceed?

Neither safe nor unsafe. What matters is whether you install GRUB with 
Buster or not.

> My intent is to remove Stretch from the platform once that I'm confident 
> with the performance of Buster, and the inevitable first problems with a 
> new version of the OS have been resolved. But now I wondering about that 
> course of action.

When you remove Stretch, you need Buster to have its own boot loader.

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