Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #209555 > unrolled thread

what does trade war mean for chinese linux user?

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com> - 2019-06-03 13:10 +0200
    Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-06-03 13:40 +0200
      Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 13:50 +0200
        Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-06-03 14:00 +0200
          Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 16:30 +0200
    Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Marek Mosiewicz <marek.mosiewicz@jotel.com.pl> - 2019-06-03 14:10 +0200
    Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-06-03 17:20 +0200
      Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com> - 2019-06-03 23:20 +0200
    Re: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2019-06-03 18:20 +0200

#209555 — what does trade war mean for chinese linux user?

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

trade war between china and usa is escalating
an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us export restriction? how does usa enforce the law on Internet?
it's not easy for me to use mail and i may not respond timely

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#209558

On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 11:04:57AM +0000, Long Wind wrote:
>    trade war between china and usa is escalating
>    an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us export
>    restriction? how does usa enforce the law on Internet?
>    it's not easy for me to use mail and i may not respond timely

The presence of the non-US archive section is a historical relic from a
period when the US considered certain forms of cryptography to be
"munitions" and so hosting implementations of said cryptographic
algorithms in the US such that users in foreign countries could download
them was considered a violation of several US laws.  The solution was to
host those cryptographic implementations outside the US.

The current trade war is more about tarrifs (and maybe protection of
intellectual property), thought since I've not been following the
details I am not certain.

In any event, the two matters are really quite separate and unrelated.

As to "How does [the] USA enforce the law on [the] Internet?"  Well, it
could be argued that they can't and they don't.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209559

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

We can see that the US government is more interested in surveillance and
propaganda on the internet than anything else.

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 6:30 AM Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 11:04:57AM +0000, Long Wind wrote:
> >    trade war between china and usa is escalating
> >    an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us
> export
> >    restriction? how does usa enforce the law on Internet?
> >    it's not easy for me to use mail and i may not respond timely
>
> The presence of the non-US archive section is a historical relic from a
> period when the US considered certain forms of cryptography to be
> "munitions" and so hosting implementations of said cryptographic
> algorithms in the US such that users in foreign countries could download
> them was considered a violation of several US laws.  The solution was to
> host those cryptographic implementations outside the US.
>
> The current trade war is more about tarrifs (and maybe protection of
> intellectual property), thought since I've not been following the
> details I am not certain.
>
> In any event, the two matters are really quite separate and unrelated.
>
> As to "How does [the] USA enforce the law on [the] Internet?"  Well, it
> could be argued that they can't and they don't.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
> --
> Roberto C. Sánchez
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209560

On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 06:43:35AM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
>    We can see that the US government is more interested in surveillance and
>    propaganda on the internet than anything else.

Which makes them like every other government in that regard?  Meet the
new boss, same as the old boss.

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209571

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 6:52 AM Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 06:43:35AM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> >    We can see that the US government is more interested in surveillance
> and
> >    propaganda on the internet than anything else.
>
> Which makes them like every other government in that regard?  Meet the
> new boss, same as the old boss.
>

I wasn't comparing regimes. Only comparing the current version of this
regime
with the previous versions. Detailed knowledge of their own populations has
become more important to them over time. I know why ;-)


> Roberto C. Sánchez
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209563

I think it means good for open source software. You can not forbid
using open software and people will understand that it is somewhat
dangerous to depend on corporations for such important issue as
software.


Best regards,
    Marek Mosiewicz
    http://marekmosiewicz.pl


W dniu pon, 03.06.2019 o godzinie 11∶04 +0000, użytkownik Long Wind
napisał:
> trade war between china and usa is escalating
> 
> an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us
> export restriction? how does usa enforce the law on Internet?
> 
> it's not easy for me to use mail and i may not respond timely

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209576

Long Wind writes:
> trade war between china and usa is escalating
> an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us
> export restriction?

Non-us was not a crippled version of Debian for non-us users.  It was a
Debian repository located outside the USA for all Debian packages
containing strong encryption (and for a while packages that infringed
USA software patents).  It was used by USA residents and non-USA
residents alike.  Strong encryption has always been legal here but the
government claimed for a while that it was illegal to export Free
Software implementing it without a license (this claim was eventually
shot down by the courts). It was simpler for Debian to put all strong
encryption outside the USA than to figure out how to limit distribution
to the USA.

> how does usa enforce the law on Internet?

It doesn't.  It enforces USA law inside the USA, and its powers over
the Internet here are weak.  
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209590

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

 Thank John Hasler!
    On Monday, June 3, 2019, 10:38:27 PM GMT+8, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:  
 
 Long Wind writes:
> trade war between china and usa is escalating
> an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us
> export restriction?

Non-us was not a crippled version of Debian for non-us users.  It was a
Debian repository located outside the USA for all Debian packages
containing strong encryption (and for a while packages that infringed
USA software patents).  It was used by USA residents and non-USA
residents alike.  Strong encryption has always been legal here but the
government claimed for a while that it was illegal to export Free
Software implementing it without a license (this claim was eventually
shot down by the courts). It was simpler for Debian to put all strong
encryption outside the USA than to figure out how to limit distribution
to the USA.

> how does usa enforce the law on Internet?

It doesn't.  It enforces USA law inside the USA, and its powers over
the Internet here are weak.  
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA
  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#209578

Very likely zero impact.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019, Long Wind wrote:

> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 07:04:57
> From: Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com>
> To: Debian-user List Debian <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> Subject: what does trade war mean for chinese linux user?
> Resent-Date: Mon,  3 Jun 2019 11:05:58 +0000 (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> trade war between china and usa is escalating
> an early debian distro has flavor for non-us users, because of us export restriction? how does usa enforce the law on Internet?
> it's not easy for me to use mail and i may not respond timely

-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web