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USB hard drives -- recommendations?

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  USB hard drives -- recommendations? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2019-01-25 18:30 +0100
    Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-25 19:10 +0100
    Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-01-25 21:10 +0100
      Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-25 22:40 +0100
        Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-01-29 04:10 +0100
      Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Ken Heard <ken@heard.name> - 2019-02-06 08:50 +0100
    Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2019-01-25 21:20 +0100
      Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-01-25 22:30 +0100
        Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2019-01-25 23:20 +0100
          Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 06:00 +0100
    Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2019-01-26 03:00 +0100
      Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Jens Holzhäuser <Jens.Holzhaeuser@gmx.net> - 2019-01-26 04:30 +0100
      Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-26 19:10 +0100
      Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2019-02-03 01:30 +0100
        Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Toni Mas i Soler <antomassol@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 09:10 +0100
        Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-02-03 10:20 +0100
          Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-02-03 11:10 +0100
            Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 11:30 +0100
              Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-02-03 16:10 +0100
                Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 18:40 +0100
              Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2019-02-03 19:00 +0100
              Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-02-03 19:10 +0100
                Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2019-02-03 20:10 +0100
                  Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-02-03 20:30 +0100
                  Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-02-04 18:20 +0100
            Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-02-03 11:40 +0100
            Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-02-03 12:50 +0100
    Re: USB hard drives -- recommendations? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2019-02-06 16:20 +0100

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#204959

On 2/3/19, 2:22 AM, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> The only problem with external disk drive enclosures from well known
> brands like WD or Seagate is they don't offer a way to open them e.g. to
> switch the disk drive inside.

That and the fact that, judging by the price tags (and this also seems 
to be the general consensus both hear and on the OCLUG list server) 
those things have the cheapest consumer-grade hard drives the vendor 
has, whereas making your own, you can make it with a server-grade drive, 
or even (and this is built in at least one enclosure I've seen) a 
mirrored pair of them.

--
JHHL

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#204960

Le 03/02/2019 à 11:22, Alexander V. Makartsev a écrit :
> On 03.02.2019 15:01, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>> Le 03/02/2019 à 10:10, Curt a écrit :
>>> On 2019-02-03, local10 <local10@tutanota.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You may want to consider buying an USB HDD enclosure/cradle, like this
>>>> one[1] for example, they are cheap and would allow you to use a
>>>> regular internal HDD as a USB drive.
>>
>> Note that this solution may require an external power supply.
>
> It won't be necessary for 2.5" hard drives. Only 3.5" hard drives
> require +12V DC to function, which USB interface can not provide.

Some 2,5" drives require more current than the 500 mA a USB 2.0 host 
port can provide. Looking at my own, I read 800 mA, 1100 mA, 580 mA, 451 
mA. So only one of them is below 500 mA.

>>> What's inside an external drive if not an internal drive?
>>
>> Sometimes, a drive with a native USB interface instead of a SATA
>> interface.
>>
> Are you sure about that?

Yes, from opening a few of them.

> I think it won't be cost-effective to make an
> entirely new custom PCB for a hard drive that will have both SATA and
> USB controllers on-board.

The PCB can be the same, but it can be equipped with only the 
controller, PHY and connector required for the destination.
No need for an adapter PCB, controller and connectors in the enclosure. 
Less parts = less assembly cost.

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#204962

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 03.02.2019 23:02, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 03/02/2019 à 11:22, Alexander V. Makartsev a écrit :
>> On 03.02.2019 15:01, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>> Le 03/02/2019 à 10:10, Curt a écrit :
>>>> On 2019-02-03, local10 <local10@tutanota.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You may want to consider buying an USB HDD enclosure/cradle, like
>>>>> this
>>>>> one[1] for example, they are cheap and would allow you to use a
>>>>> regular internal HDD as a USB drive.
>>>
>>> Note that this solution may require an external power supply.
>>
>> It won't be necessary for 2.5" hard drives. Only 3.5" hard drives
>> require +12V DC to function, which USB interface can not provide.
>
> Some 2,5" drives require more current than the 500 mA a USB 2.0 host
> port can provide. Looking at my own, I read 800 mA, 1100 mA, 580 mA,
> 451 mA. So only one of them is below 500 mA.
Turns out you are right. Modern 2.5" HDDs are made to be more demanding,
according to hardware specs available on web sites of WD and Seagate.
Only exception are 2.5" L200 series drives from Toshiba. They require
<500mA to operate.
Some years ago that wasn't the case, because I still use 250Gb and 120Gb
Seagate HDDs with 2.5" USB2.0 disk enclosure, so I assume WD and Seagate
did that on purpose to make their external hard drive enclosures viable.
*sigh*
>
>> I think it won't be cost-effective to make an
>> entirely new custom PCB for a hard drive that will have both SATA and
>> USB controllers on-board.
>
> The PCB can be the same, but it can be equipped with only the
> controller, PHY and connector required for the destination.
> No need for an adapter PCB, controller and connectors in the
> enclosure. Less parts = less assembly cost.
>
Can you name a make\model, so I can avoid and don't recommend them,
because this alone makes them a solid no-no, because if / once they fail
you won't be able to recover data from them without specialized data
recovery hardware.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ 

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#204963

Le 03/02/2019 à 20:05, Alexander V. Makartsev a écrit :
> On 03.02.2019 23:02, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>
>> Some 2,5" drives require more current than the 500 mA a USB 2.0 host
>> port can provide. Looking at my own, I read 800 mA, 1100 mA, 580 mA,
>> 451 mA. So only one of them is below 500 mA.

I forgot to mention that fortunately, USB 3.0 is becoming more common 
and allows to draw more current.

>> The PCB can be the same, but it can be equipped with only the
>> controller, PHY and connector required for the destination.
>> No need for an adapter PCB, controller and connectors in the
>> enclosure. Less parts = less assembly cost.
>>
> Can you name a make\model, so I can avoid and don't recommend them,

No, sorry. The last time I opened a disk of this kind was several years ago.

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#204982

On Mon, Feb 04, 2019 at 12:05:08AM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>Turns out you are right. Modern 2.5" HDDs are made to be more demanding,
>according to hardware specs available on web sites of WD and Seagate. Only
>exception are 2.5" L200 series drives from Toshiba. They require <500mA to
>operate.

It's pretty much always been true; 2.5" PATA/SATA->USB2 adapters without 
an external power source typically come with *two* connections to plug 
into the computer (like a USB "Y" cable), so you can draw an aggregate 
1A.  Sometimes you can get away without using both, sometimes not. For 
USB3 adapters, it's common to skip that because the USB3 spec can draw 
close to 1A without the second cable. (Though they won't necessarily 
work properly if plugged into a USB2 port in that case.) The only 2.5" 
spinner I have handy is more than a decade old and requires 960mA to 
spin up--so this definitely isn't a new thing.

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#204950

On 2019-02-03, Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote:
> Le 03/02/2019 à 10:10, Curt a écrit :
>> On 2019-02-03, local10 <local10@tutanota.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You may want to consider buying an USB HDD enclosure/cradle, like this
>>> one[1] for example, they are cheap and would allow you to use a
>>> regular internal HDD as a USB drive.
>
> Note that this solution may require an external power supply.
>
>> What's inside an external drive if not an internal drive?
>
> Sometimes, a drive with a native USB interface instead of a SATA interface.
>
>

I just read something to that effect from the Western Digital people
(who can't tell you which is which, it seems, for their products).

https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebase/answer.aspx?ID=1704

You'd think the difference between a USB enclosure for an internal SATA
drive and an external USB drive with a SATA disk and interface in its
innards might be somewhat less than minimal (all else being
equal).

I've no notion whether native USB on the inside might be superior,
inferior, or simply kif-kif reliability-wise (not to mention speed). 

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#204952

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 11:01:33 +0100
Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> wrote:

> Le 03/02/2019 à 10:10, Curt a écrit :
> > On 2019-02-03, local10 <local10@tutanota.com> wrote:  
> >>
> >> You may want to consider buying an USB HDD enclosure/cradle, like
> >> this one[1] for example, they are cheap and would allow you to use
> >> a regular internal HDD as a USB drive.  
> 
> Note that this solution may require an external power supply.
> 
> > What's inside an external drive if not an internal drive?  
> 
> Sometimes, a drive with a native USB interface instead of a SATA
> interface.
> 

I've only ever seen one of those, a Samsung external drive which is
really shirt-pocket-sized, the smallest I've ever seen. Unfortunately,
mine is failing now, and they don't make a similar type today.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-160GB-Ultra-Portable-Pocket/dp/B002HLVO3M

-- 
Joe

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#205062

> Would anybody care to voice an opinion on USB external hard drives in the
> 2 terabyte size range, for automated backup purposes?

I personally use my external HDDs without enclosures.

I.e. I use a USB<->SATA adapter
(e.g. https://www.dx.com/p/usb-3-0-to-sata-22-pin-2-5-hard-disk-driver-adapter-cable-black-18cm-2021357)
and then connect the "raw drives".  The advantage is that the same
adapter cable works for various sizes of drives (e.g. I have some
extra-thick 2½" 2TB drives which don't fit in a normal 2½" enclosure).

Some of those adapters can also be used with 3½" drives (at the cost of
extra work to power the drive, and I'm not sure it's worth the trouble:
I personally stopped using 3½" disks when the 2½" disks crossed the 2TB
threshold).


        Stefan

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