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Re: Networking Completely Failed

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  Re: Networking Completely Failed "Harley A.W. Lorenzo" <hl1998@protonmail.com> - 2019-01-31 08:30 +0100
    Re: Networking Completely Failed "Harley A.W. Lorenzo" <hl1998@protonmail.com> - 2019-01-31 08:40 +0100
      Re: Networking Completely Failed Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-31 10:30 +0100
        Re: Networking Completely Failed deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-31 11:00 +0100
          Re: Networking Completely Failed Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-31 13:00 +0100
        Re: Networking Completely Failed Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 06:20 +0100
          Re: Networking Completely Failed David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-02-01 15:50 +0100
          Re: Networking Completely Failed Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-02-01 16:30 +0100
            Re: Networking Completely Failed rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-02-01 17:10 +0100
      Re: Networking Completely Failed "Harley A.W. Lorenzo" <hl1998@protonmail.com> - 2019-02-01 00:50 +0100

#204853 — Re: Networking Completely Failed

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Thank you.

To my surprise, the service was masked. I unmasked it, and the service is
completely gone now. I'm going to write it back in and see if this fixes
the issue, but now I'm very curious why the service masked itself after
switching desktop environment. Is there a related bug?

Apologies if my mailing client does not thread this correctly. It does
not allow me to specify in-reply-to, and I did not receive this message
in my inbox, so I hope this was threaded correctly.
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On 1/31/2019 06:10, John Doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> wrote:
> The service 'systemd-networkd' has nothing to do with NetworkManager and
> the service for Nm is 'NetworkManager'.
>
> $ systemctl restart NetworkManager
>
> --
> John Doe

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#204854

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After digging around more, the service file isn't just the only thing gone,
the entire package has been removed as well. Honestly, I have no idea what could
have resulted in this package being removed suddenly given the only circumstance
that changed packages in my system was installing XFCE and removing Cinnamon,
something I know that doesn't remove this package as I had done it on my desktop
just earlier before the laptop.

I'll update on whether or not installing this package (provided through a USB)
will fix this issue, and look into why this package was removed.
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On Thursday, January 31, 2019 2:04 AM, Harley A.W. Lorenzo <hl1998@protonmail.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Thank you.
>
> To my surprise, the service was masked. I unmasked it, and the service is
> completely gone now. I'm going to write it back in and see if this fixes
> the issue, but now I'm very curious why the service masked itself after
> switching desktop environment. Is there a related bug?
>
> Apologies if my mailing client does not thread this correctly. It does
> not allow me to specify in-reply-to, and I did not receive this message
> in my inbox, so I hope this was threaded correctly.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>

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#204856

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:21:10 +0000
"Harley A.W. Lorenzo" <hl1998@protonmail.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> After digging around more, the service file isn't just the only thing
> gone, the entire package has been removed as well. Honestly, I have
> no idea what could have resulted in this package being removed
> suddenly given the only circumstance that changed packages in my
> system was installing XFCE and removing Cinnamon, something I know
> that doesn't remove this package as I had done it on my desktop just
> earlier before the laptop.
> 

By 'removing' Cinnamon, do you mean that you uninstalled it?

If so, Network Manager was probably a dependency of it, and was
uninstalled at the same time. NM is a Gnome application. It is not a
dependency of Xfce, nor, I assume, of other 'lightweight' desktop
environments. I run Xfce, and I explicitly install NM on my portables,
I have no use for it on a desktop machine. You will probably find other
Gnome applications missing, such as gedit.

In the absence of NM, there needs to be a file /etc/network/interfaces
containing enough information to bring up the network interfaces. With
NM installed from new, this will probably exist but contain only
localhost, as any interface named here will not be touched by NM.

Besides NM itself, you may need some plug-ins for specialist interfaces,
such as for OpenVPN. You'll probably also want the Gnome GUIs for it and
any plug-ins.

-- 
Joe

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#204857

Joe wrote:

> NM is a Gnome application.

Are you sure? IMO it is not a gnome only tool although it is developed by
gnome
https://developer.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/NetworkManager.html

Description-en: network management framework (daemon and userspace tools)
 NetworkManager is a system network service that manages your network
devices
 and connections, attempting to keep active network connectivity when
 available. It manages ethernet, WiFi, mobile broadband (WWAN), and PPPoE
 devices, and provides VPN integration with a variety of different VPN
 services.
 .
 This package provides the userspace daemons and a command line interface to
 interact with NetworkManager.

while there is a package network-manager-gnome

Description-en: network management framework (GNOME frontend)
 NetworkManager is a system network service that manages your network
devices
 and connections, attempting to keep active network connectivity when
 available. It manages ethernet, WiFi, mobile broadband (WWAN), and PPPoE
 devices, and provides VPN integration with a variety of different VPN
 services.
 .
 This package contains a systray applet for GNOME's notification area but it
 also works for other desktop environments which provide a systray like KDE
 or Xfce.
 It displays the available networks and allows users to easily switch
between
 them. For encrypted networks it will prompt the user for the key/passphrase
 and it can optionally store them in the gnome-keyring.

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#204858

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:57:42 +0100
deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> 
> > NM is a Gnome application.  
> 
> Are you sure? IMO it is not a gnome only tool although it is
> developed by gnome
> https://developer.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/NetworkManager.html
> 

That's what I mean. It was developed to be a standard component of
Gnome.

I know it's not Gnome-only, because I use it with Xfce on my laptops. I
use a number of Gnome and KDE applications without having installed
either DE, by which I mean software developed by the Gnome and KDE
projects and dependent on their metapackages and generally some of
their libraries.

My point was that as a dependency of Gnome (via network-manager-gnome)
it will be installed with a standard Gnome installation, and
information about network interfaces will *not* be written to /e/n/i.

Cinnamon is something of a Gnome clone, and while I have never used it,
I would expect it to depend on pretty much the same accessories as
Gnome does. If the metapackage was uninstalled, I would expect it to
pull out the dependencies also, unless separately manually installed.

Am I wrong?

-- 
Joe

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#204881

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:21 AM Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
<snip>

> ... NM is a Gnome application. ...
>
<snip>

That's funny:  Last year, I installed Kubuntu (not Debian, but same Package
Manager) and, even though no Gnome, Network Manager was installed.

-- 
> Joe
>

Kenneth Parker

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#204890

On Fri 01 Feb 2019 at 00:19:09 (-0500), Kenneth Parker wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:21 AM Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > ... NM is a Gnome application. ...
> >
> <snip>
> 
> That's funny:  Last year, I installed Kubuntu (not Debian, but same Package
> Manager) and, even though no Gnome, Network Manager was installed.

"Introduction

 On several Linux distributions, the NetworkManager daemon provides
 user-configurable control of network connections. In KDE, the
 KNetworkManager (KDE3 and KDE4) and Network Management (KDE4) are the
 main user interfaces to NetworkManager."

https://userbase.kde.org/NetworkManagement

I guess we're talking about KDE and Gnome here, rather than Brexit/Remain.

Cheers,
David.

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#204892

On 2019-02-01, Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> wrote:
> --0000000000001724fb0580ce49f7
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 4:21 AM Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
><snip>
>
>> ... NM is a Gnome application. ...
>>
><snip>
>
> That's funny:  Last year, I installed Kubuntu (not Debian, but same Package
> Manager) and, even though no Gnome, Network Manager was installed.
>


curty@einstein:~/glimmer$ apt show network-manager
<snip>
Homepage: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/NetworkManager
<snip>

Maybe inconclusive. What's a gnome application, anyway? 

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#204897

On Friday, February 01, 2019 10:27:05 AM Curt wrote:
> Maybe inconclusive. What's a gnome application, anyway?

I'd like to try to answer that:

   * I would say that a GNOME application is one that is in some sense 
supported by the GNOME (I guess GNU?) organization -- it is probably hosted 
(i.e., has source code available) on the (a?) gnome site, probably supported 
by one or more gnome developers, and *possibly* using one or more gnome 
libraries or other software resources.

It does not preclude that:

   * non-gnome developers also support it

   * non-gnome websites also make it (as source or binaries or both) available 
for use by others

   * it uses, either in addition to, or in some circumstances, non-gnome 
libraries or software resources

   * it's use and / or distribution with other distros / desktop environments

It may have been, in some sense "started" as a gnome application, but it might 
just as well have had other roots and been somewhat adopted by gnome (and not 
precluding other distros / desktops also having adopted it).

It is, after all, (I believe, without double checking), under a GPL or similar 
free and / or open source license.

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#204878

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Also in reply to:
20190131092106.2a6b3814@jresid.jretrading.com
q2ugqc$4kcj$1@blaine.gmane.org
20190131115051.3276cec0@jresid.jretrading.com

On 2019-01-31 09:21 +0000 "Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

>By 'removing' Cinnamon, do you mean that you uninstalled it?
>If so, Network Manager was probably a dependency of it, and was
>uninstalled at the same time. NM is a Gnome application. It is not a
>dependency of Xfce, nor, I assume, of other 'lightweight' desktop
>environments. I run Xfce, and I explicitly install NM on my portables,

I believe you're 100% correct. I was using aptitude for the
installation and uninstallation of XFCE4 and Cinnamon
respectively on both of my Debian Testing boxes, but the
difference on why one uninstalled network-manager and the
other didn't was because on the first one I installed XFCE4
first, but on the other I uninstalled it first, and aptitude
saw that network-manager was no longer suggested anywhere
and removed it, but because it wasn't a "dependency" it never
reinstalled.

On 2019-01-31 09:57 +0000 "deloptes" <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
>Are you sure? IMO it is not a gnome only tool although it is developed by
>gnome

It is not a gnome-only tool, but XFCE definitely does not
depend on it explicitly.
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