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backintime

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  backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-16 18:00 +0100
    Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-16 19:40 +0100
      Re: backintime Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-01-16 20:20 +0100
        Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-16 21:30 +0100
        Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-16 21:40 +0100
          Re: backintime Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-01-16 22:00 +0100
            Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-16 22:20 +0100
    Re: backintime Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-16 23:20 +0100
      Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-17 02:10 +0100
        Re: backintime Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-17 02:30 +0100
          Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-17 02:30 +0100
    Re: backintime David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-18 01:00 +0100
      Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-18 01:20 +0100
    Re: backintime David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-01-18 03:40 +0100
      Re: backintime Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-01-18 04:40 +0100
        Re: backintime Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2019-01-18 11:40 +0100
          Re: backintime Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-19 11:10 +0100
            Re: backintime David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2019-01-19 16:00 +0100
              Re: backintime Rusi Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2019-01-21 06:30 +0100
                Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-21 08:10 +0100
                  Re: backintime Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2019-01-21 19:10 +0100
        Re: backintime David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-01-19 05:50 +0100
    Re: backintime Rusi Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2019-01-18 06:50 +0100
      Re: backintime Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-18 09:20 +0100

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#204461 — backintime

Greetings all;

2 instant questions about backintime, which I just now installed to make 
small backups as I work on some machine config files, and some gcode to 
go with linuxcnc.

This after haveing suffered the of having xmlindent nissfire and left me 
with an empty xml file of over 250 loc I've had to reinvent from 
scratch.

A round of shingles to the author of that manpage.  Now I know its a 
filter you pipe input to, but thats not mentioned in the manpage.

Anyway, I want to setup A) a directory in my home page on that machine
B) two profiles to watch 2 directories and their subdirs as two separate  
progile's.  which I've done, both useing the same /home/gene/backup dir 
for the snapshots.
But all I can get out of backintime-gnome is that the backup location is 
invalid.

Its a terabyte drive, 3% used, what the heck is its problem? I own the 
backup dir and everything to be stored in it. I don't intend to ever 
backup the system, I have amanda doing that daily for almost 21 years 
now.

Am I using the wrong tool?, it certainly feels like it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204462

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 11:59:39 Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> 2 instant questions about backintime, which I just now installed to
> make small backups as I work on some machine config files, and some
> gcode to go with linuxcnc.
>
> This after haveing suffered the of having xmlindent nissfire and left
> me with an empty xml file of over 250 loc I've had to reinvent from
> scratch.
>
> A round of shingles to the author of that manpage.  Now I know its a
> filter you pipe input to, but thats not mentioned in the manpage.
>
> Anyway, I want to setup A) a directory in my home page on that machine
> B) two profiles to watch 2 directories and their subdirs as two
> separate progile's.  which I've done, both useing the same
> /home/gene/backup dir for the snapshots.
> But all I can get out of backintime-gnome is that the backup location
> is invalid.
>
> Its a terabyte drive, 3% used, what the heck is its problem? I own the
> backup dir and everything to be stored in it. I don't intend to ever
> backup the system, I have amanda doing that daily for almost 21 years
> now.
>
> Am I using the wrong tool?, it certainly feels like it.

So I blew away backintime, and installed eclipse but I've never seen a 
login so screwed up, in 6 attempts to create an account, its confused 
the passwd with the "organization phrase" 6 times, but now I've gotten 
far enough to ask it for a passwd reset.

I got past that finally, to be greeted by the worst concealed phishiing 
questionare I've ever seen. In the interests of not have to change my 
credit card on 2 minutes notice, I've already had to do that just about 
90 days back, I backed out. They have my confirmed email address so they 
can spam me for the next 3 years like solidworks because I looked, 
couldn't figure out how to use it, nuked it, and my account pw.
What in tarnation more do they need before I can even see their mailing 
list, so it looks as if eclipse will also get removed.

Anybody else have a suggestion for a live backup for working on a 600 
line file?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204463

Gene Heskett wrote: 
> On Wednesday 16 January 2019 11:59:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> Anybody else have a suggestion for a live backup for working on a 600 
> line file?

How live do you need it to be?

Option 1: totally manual. If there's only one or a few files,
this works well.

$ cp foobar.txt foobar.txt.20190116; edit foobar.txt


Option 2: version control system.

  Setup:
    git init
    git add foobar.txt

  Working:
    edit foobar.txt
    git commit foobar.txt -m "drew a new line"

  Review:
    git status foobar.txt
    git log foobar.txt


Option 3: you already use vim, right?
    https://github.com/thaerkh/vim-workspace

Option 4: you already use emacs, right?
    https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoSave

Option 5: you like using gedit, right?
    preferences => editor  ; turn on autosave, specify the
    period

Option 6: you like using geany, right?
    https://www.geany.org/manual/current/index.html#id232


This is not an exclusive list.

-dsr-

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#204465

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 14:17:04 Dan Ritter wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 16 January 2019 11:59:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > Anybody else have a suggestion for a live backup for working on a
> > 600 line file?
>
> How live do you need it to be?
>
> Option 1: totally manual. If there's only one or a few files,
> this works well.
>
> $ cp foobar.txt foobar.txt.20190116; edit foobar.txt
>
>
> Option 2: version control system.
>
>   Setup:
>     git init
>     git add foobar.txt
>
>   Working:
>     edit foobar.txt
>     git commit foobar.txt -m "drew a new line"
>
>   Review:
>     git status foobar.txt
>     git log foobar.txt
>
>
> Option 3: you already use vim, right?
>     https://github.com/thaerkh/vim-workspace
>
> Option 4: you already use emacs, right?
>     https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoSave
>
> Option 5: you like using gedit, right?
>     preferences => editor  ; turn on autosave, specify the
>     period
gedit is a nice editor, until it decides to play 45 pickup with 57 cards. 
Its taken quite while to clear the blue air in the vacinity when that 
happens.
> Option 6: you like using geany, right?

whereas geany has yet to get so confused.
>     https://www.geany.org/manual/current/index.html#id232
Is that a plugin I don't have, or where is this save configurer?
>
> This is not an exclusive list.
>
> -dsr-


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204466

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 14:17:04 Dan Ritter wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 16 January 2019 11:59:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > Anybody else have a suggestion for a live backup for working on a
> > 600 line file?
>
> How live do you need it to be?
>
> Option 1: totally manual. If there's only one or a few files,
> this works well.
>
> $ cp foobar.txt foobar.txt.20190116; edit foobar.txt
But is a load of typu inducing typing, needs to be a script, one simple 
name, saveit maybe
>
> Option 2: version control system.
>
>   Setup:
>     git init
>     git add foobar.txt
>
>   Working:
>     edit foobar.txt
>     git commit foobar.txt -m "drew a new line"
>
>   Review:
>     git status foobar.txt
>     git log foobar.txt
>
git work nice, until you want to save..

> Option 3: you already use vim, right?
>     https://github.com/thaerkh/vim-workspace
>
> Option 4: you already use emacs, right?
>     https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoSave
>
> Option 5: you like using gedit, right?
>     preferences => editor  ; turn on autosave, specify the
>     period
>
> Option 6: you like using geany, right?
>     https://www.geany.org/manual/current/index.html#id232

I don't have any save-as options, just a save-as I can rename. I'd much 
druther it timestamped the version loaded, but saved the regular to the 
original nane. I missing a plugin?
>
>
> This is not an exclusive list.
>
> -dsr-


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204467

Gene Heskett wrote: 
> On Wednesday 16 January 2019 14:17:04 Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
> > Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 16 January 2019 11:59:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >
> >
> > Option 6: you like using geany, right?
> >     https://www.geany.org/manual/current/index.html#id232
> 
> I don't have any save-as options, just a save-as I can rename. I'd much 
> druther it timestamped the version loaded, but saved the regular to the 
> original nane. I missing a plugin?

Probably. The link should tell you all about it. I googled
"geany autosave".

-dsr-

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#204468

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 15:56:58 Dan Ritter wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 16 January 2019 14:17:04 Dan Ritter wrote:
> > > Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 16 January 2019 11:59:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >
> > > Option 6: you like using geany, right?
> > >     https://www.geany.org/manual/current/index.html#id232
> >
> > I don't have any save-as options, just a save-as I can rename. I'd
> > much druther it timestamped the version loaded, but saved the
> > regular to the original nane. I missing a plugin?
>
> Probably. The link should tell you all about it. I googled
> "geany autosave".
>
> -dsr-

Found it in the preferences menu above that one, the plugin wasn't 
enabled at all. So we'll see how it works in a bit.

Thank you Dan Ritter!


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204472

Hello,

I second the suggestion to learn version control, specifically git,
and then force yourself to use it when editing your work. The
discipline will pay dividends.

That solves the problem of making accidental/incorrect changes.
Don't forget to back up the git repository though, to protect
against disk failure.

For bonus points investigate ways to back up the config files of
your whole computer.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#204477

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 17:15:48 Andy Smith wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I second the suggestion to learn version control, specifically git,
> and then force yourself to use it when editing your work. The
> discipline will pay dividends.
>
> That solves the problem of making accidental/incorrect changes.
> Don't forget to back up the git repository though, to protect
> against disk failure.
>
> For bonus points investigate ways to back up the config files of
> your whole computer.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy

I hate to spoil your attempt at levity, but amanda is doing that every 
night, to the whole, now 5 machine local network. For around 20 years 
now.  Do I get the bunus poinrs anyway? ;-)

I also found a way to save a timestamped copy of everything I edit in 
geany. Darned stuff was turned off by default, and rather well hidden in 
the prefs. With my typing, fingers run at about 10% of brain speed, and 
that path doesn't even have a crc checker let alone a overflow warning, 
that was a builtin demolition crew.  Just one of the "fun" things that 
don't grow old with grace. OTOH, and despite recovering from a pacemaker 
implant 8 days back, (my pulse was down in the mid 30's) I have had the 
great good fortune to have outlived all my childhood enemies. I can say 
that I've had a good ride but will be worn out and leaking oil by the 
time I slide up to the gates, just not yet. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204478

Hello,

On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 08:07:02PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 January 2019 17:15:48 Andy Smith wrote:
> > For bonus points investigate ways to back up the config files of
> > your whole computer.
> 
> I hate to spoil your attempt at levity, but amanda is doing that every 
> night, to the whole, now 5 machine local network. For around 20 years 
> now.  Do I get the bunus poinrs anyway? ;-)

No, as it didn't work for whatever you were editing that you made a
mess of.

I meant that it can be very useful to apply the same version control
ideas that you would use for your own documents, projects and code,
to the configuration of your system.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

> The optimum programming team size is 1.
Has Jurassic Park taught us nothing?     — pfilandr

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#204479

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 20:22:45 Andy Smith wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 08:07:02PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 16 January 2019 17:15:48 Andy Smith wrote:
> > > For bonus points investigate ways to back up the config files of
> > > your whole computer.
> >
> > I hate to spoil your attempt at levity, but amanda is doing that
> > every night, to the whole, now 5 machine local network. For around
> > 20 years now.  Do I get the bunus poinrs anyway? ;-)
>
> No, as it didn't work for whatever you were editing that you made a
> mess of.
>
> I meant that it can be very useful to apply the same version control
> ideas that you would use for your own documents, projects and code,
> to the configuration of your system.
>
Ahh, Gee. :)

> Cheers,
> Andy


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204502

On Wed 16 Jan 2019 at 11:59:39 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> 2 instant questions about backintime, which I just now installed to make 
> small backups as I work on some machine config files, and some gcode to 
> go with linuxcnc.
> 
> This after haveing suffered the of having xmlindent nissfire and left me 
> with an empty xml file of over 250 loc I've had to reinvent from 
> scratch.
> 
> A round of shingles to the author of that manpage.  Now I know its a 
> filter you pipe input to, but thats not mentioned in the manpage.

A bit harsh; doesn't "*stream* formatter" mean that it's a filter?

> Anyway, I want to setup A) a directory in my home page on that machine
> B) two profiles to watch 2 directories and their subdirs as two separate  
> progile's.  which I've done, both useing the same /home/gene/backup dir 
> for the snapshots.
> But all I can get out of backintime-gnome is that the backup location is 
> invalid.

Can it use the same location for two profiles (asked in ignorance)?
What happens if you split things up?

Cheers,
David.

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#204503

On Wednesday 16 January 2019 12:29:50 David Wright wrote:

> On Wed 16 Jan 2019 at 11:59:39 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > 2 instant questions about backintime, which I just now installed to
> > make small backups as I work on some machine config files, and some
> > gcode to go with linuxcnc.
> >
> > This after haveing suffered the of having xmlindent nissfire and
> > left me with an empty xml file of over 250 loc I've had to reinvent
> > from scratch.
> >
> > A round of shingles to the author of that manpage.  Now I know its a
> > filter you pipe input to, but thats not mentioned in the manpage.
>
> A bit harsh; doesn't "*stream* formatter" mean that it's a filter?
>
If one goes back and reads it 5 or 6 times that eventually becomes a 
clue, one that bit me hard and took about 2 days to recover from.

> > Anyway, I want to setup A) a directory in my home page on that
> > machine B) two profiles to watch 2 directories and their subdirs as
> > two separate progile's.  which I've done, both useing the same
> > /home/gene/backup dir for the snapshots.
> > But all I can get out of backintime-gnome is that the backup
> > location is invalid.
>
> Can it use the same location for two profiles (asked in ignorance)?
> What happens if you split things up?

Dunno, didn't try that. What I did do was find the saveas stuff was 
turned off by default in geany's prefs, and once that was enabled, I now 
have time stamped backups of everything I touch in that assigned 
directory. This is basically what I wanted in the first place, so now if 
I fubar something, I can with a quick mc session, backup 1 to however 
many versions it takes to get back to working but possibly incomplete 
code. The 4 align function buttons and tallies are now working. There 
are 5 more buttons in that group that should work, but they are designed 
to be used with camera vision, but all that is in old python and 
stability is not in its known vocabulary.  And TBT, it needs to find a 
camera with a much longer, and focusable lens not found on ebay, to be 
really usable. But I'm still looking. :)

> Cheers,
> David.

Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#204505

On 1/16/19 8:59 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> 2 instant questions about backintime, which I just now installed to make
> small backups as I work on some machine config files, and some gcode to
> go with linuxcnc.
> 
> This after haveing suffered the of having xmlindent nissfire and left me
> with an empty xml file of over 250 loc I've had to reinvent from
> scratch.
> 
> A round of shingles to the author of that manpage.  Now I know its a
> filter you pipe input to, but thats not mentioned in the manpage.
> 
> Anyway, I want to setup A) a directory in my home page on that machine
> B) two profiles to watch 2 directories and their subdirs as two separate
> progile's.  which I've done, both useing the same /home/gene/backup dir
> for the snapshots.
> But all I can get out of backintime-gnome is that the backup location is
> invalid.
> 
> Its a terabyte drive, 3% used, what the heck is its problem? I own the
> backup dir and everything to be stored in it. I don't intend to ever
> backup the system, I have amanda doing that daily for almost 21 years
> now.
> 
> Am I using the wrong tool?, it certainly feels like it.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


On 1/16/19 11:17 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
 > Option 2: version control system.

On 1/16/19 2:15 PM, Andy Smith wrote:
 > I second the suggestion to learn version control...

+1


I started with RCS.  The concepts and commands are straight-forward, but 
the granularity is per-file.  It works great for managing key /etc/* 
files on remote servers.  But, RCS gets tedious when you want to manage 
many files.


I soon discovered CVS, which operates on directories (projects).  I put 
the CVS repository on my file server and can access any project from any 
machine over SSH with the CVS client.  This arrangement has proven to be 
incredibly useful.  (Every night, the file server is backed up and the 
CVS repository is also archived.)


The canonical CVS book is "Open Source Development with CVS", which has 
been released under GPL3:

     http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/


David

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#204507

On 17.01.19 18:35, David Christensen wrote:
> On 1/16/19 2:15 PM, Andy Smith wrote:
> > I second the suggestion to learn version control...
> 
> +1
> 
> I started with RCS.  The concepts and commands are straight-forward, but the
> granularity is per-file.  It works great for managing key /etc/* files on
> remote servers.  But, RCS gets tedious when you want to manage many files.
> 
> I soon discovered CVS, which operates on directories (projects).  I put the
> CVS repository on my file server and can access any project from any machine
> over SSH with the CVS client.  This arrangement has proven to be incredibly
> useful.  (Every night, the file server is backed up and the CVS repository
> is also archived.)
> 
> The canonical CVS book is "Open Source Development with CVS", which has been
> released under GPL3:
> 
>     http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/
> 
> David

Seconded. After a couple of decades using CVS, I'm not likely to shift
to the newfangled offerings either. The manual which served us well in
the old days was "The Cederquist":

https://ftp.gnu.org/non-gnu/cvs/source/feature/1.12.13/cederqvist-1.12.13.pdf

The thing with RCS's per-file focus is that two different versions of
the application may use the same version of some of the sourcefiles, but
will have different versions of others. CVS's "tag" command facilitates
identifying that set of file versions, with a meaningful name. Being
able to also apply a check-in comment is also nifty.

When managing software projects across three countries, I found its
automatic merge ability to be an incredible productivity boost.

It will, though, take some getting used to, as will any VCS.

Erik

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#204510

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 02:27:23PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>Seconded. After a couple of decades using CVS, I'm not likely to shift
>to the newfangled offerings either.
…
>It will, though, take some getting used to, as will any VCS.

For those of you with decades of experience of CVS, you might as well
stick with it.

For someone entirely new to VCSes, I would absolutely not recommend
CVS at all. It does what it does competently enough, but if you require
any support there is a very small pool of people still actively using it
to draw from.


 - Jonathan, git user for ≥ 10 years (not sure when I started), having
   moved on from SVN, which replaced CVS, which replaced RCS. Soon I
   will have to gain some expertise with mercurial for $dayjob


-- 

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

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#204535

Hello,

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 10:29:49AM +0000, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> For those of you with decades of experience of CVS, you might as well
> stick with it.
> 
> For someone entirely new to VCSes, I would absolutely not recommend
> CVS at all.

Yes. After reading the various diversions into RCS and CVS history I
was a little dismayed. If you are a newcomer to version control and
just wanting to get things done, look at git first and only move on
when you are comfortable with day to day usage of that.

Learning about anything older than git could be valuable from a
historical point of view but git is so dominant now that for
practical use it would be a waste of time to start with anything
else (barring any immediate need like if you need to start working
with an existing project that uses subversion or mercurial or
something).

Particularly, RCS has severe limitations that CVS fixed, and CVS has
severe limitations that Subversion fixed. They're just not worth
revisiting for new use.

But it can be interesting from the point of view of the history of
computer science. And for existing projects that don't have an issue
with their current choice of VCS it isn't worth changing.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#204539

On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 at 21:07, Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 10:29:49AM +0000, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> > For those of you with decades of experience of CVS, you might as well
> > stick with it.
> >
> > For someone entirely new to VCSes, I would absolutely not recommend
> > CVS at all.
>
> Yes. After reading the various diversions into RCS and CVS history I
> was a little dismayed.

Indeed, I also felt dismay at the idea that newcomers might follow advice to
start using these ancient, incredibly limited tools.

I'd be surprised if any of the people advocating them aren't well into
retirement. I'm not trying to change their minds or opinions, I totally
understand wanting to stay with the familiar, because that can be
productive, and I absolutely agree with recommending the
use of version control, but I feel that recommending RCS or CVS for
new starters is extremely poor advice. The field of version control has
seriously moved on from those early tools, which were widely abandoned
and code migrated to more modern tools for legitimate reasons.
It's not a fad.

Here's a discussion of GIT features vs CVS ... it's ten years old.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/802573/difference-between-git-and-cvs/824241#824241
(git has gained the ability to do partial checkouts since then, and
bisection, which is remarkably useful).

I have used CVS before I started using git, long ago. It takes some
dedication to become proficient in git, probably more than CVS.
But it's worth it, absolutely. And I find the ease it gives to diff
and change management it adds to the fun-factor of developing code.

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#204549

On Saturday, January 19, 2019 at 8:30:05 PM UTC+5:30, David wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 at 21:07, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 10:29:49AM +0000, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> 
> > > For those of you with decades of experience of CVS, you might as well
> > > stick with it.
> > >
> > > For someone entirely new to VCSes, I would absolutely not recommend
> > > CVS at all.
> >
> > Yes. After reading the various diversions into RCS and CVS history I
> > was a little dismayed.
> 
> Indeed, I also felt dismay at the idea that newcomers might follow advice to
> start using these ancient, incredibly limited tools.
> 
> I'd be surprised if any of the people advocating them aren't well into
> retirement. I'm not trying to change their minds or opinions, I totally
> understand wanting to stay with the familiar, because that can be
> productive, and I absolutely agree with recommending the
> use of version control, but I feel that recommending RCS or CVS for
> new starters is extremely poor advice. The field of version control has
> seriously moved on from those early tools, which were widely abandoned
> and code migrated to more modern tools for legitimate reasons.
> It's not a fad.
> 
> Here's a discussion of GIT features vs CVS ... it's ten years old.
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/802573/difference-between-git-and-cvs/824241#824241

Thats a good list of git-cvs comparison
One can get similar lists for svn vs cvs etc
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1261/what-are-the-advantages-of-using-svn-over-cvs

What does that have to do with Gene's needs/request?

We can all agree with these facts
rcs followed by cvs followed by svn followed by git

>From which follows the conclusion:
git obsoletes svn obsoletes cvs obsoletes rcs

Except that the last 'obsoletes' is wrong because rcs is so much simpler
that it can be taken to solve a quite different problem altogether

To summarize the 1st 2nd 3rd version ideas from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_Control_System#Related_tools_and_successors

1st gen : file based revisions (rcs)
2nd gen : client-server model, concurrency (the 'c' in cvs)
Actually the first faltering steps towards
multi-user, multi-machine, multi-location multi-OS etc usage
(zillion other multis eg multi-line-ending support etc)
3rd gen : simplify client-server to peer2peer, disconnected usage, speed etc

What features beyond 1st-gen are of any use to someone with Gene's usage scenario viz. a single-user, single (config) file on a single machine??

Note that the fact that git is strongly biased towards projects (directories)
rather than files has made people have this kind of discussion
[see the accepted answer]
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11128434/how-can-i-use-git-to-track-versions-of-a-single-file

And even try to implement zit:

Note the blurb from https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=Interfaces,_frontends,_and_tools#Zit

| Zit by Giuseppe Bilotta is the Git-based single file content tracker; it uses 
| Git to independently track single files within a directory; sort of like what 
| RCS does, but with the power, flexibility, elegance and ease of use of Git. 
| Still in alpha stage.
| You can get it from `git://git.oblomov.eu/zit` 

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#204550

On Monday 21 January 2019 00:12:21 Rusi Mody wrote:

> On Saturday, January 19, 2019 at 8:30:05 PM UTC+5:30, David wrote:
> > On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 at 21:07, Andy Smith wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 10:29:49AM +0000, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > > > For those of you with decades of experience of CVS, you might as
> > > > well stick with it.
> > > >
> > > > For someone entirely new to VCSes, I would absolutely not
> > > > recommend CVS at all.
> > >
> > > Yes. After reading the various diversions into RCS and CVS history
> > > I was a little dismayed.
> >
> > Indeed, I also felt dismay at the idea that newcomers might follow
> > advice to start using these ancient, incredibly limited tools.
> >
> > I'd be surprised if any of the people advocating them aren't well
> > into retirement. I'm not trying to change their minds or opinions, I
> > totally understand wanting to stay with the familiar, because that
> > can be productive, and I absolutely agree with recommending the
> > use of version control, but I feel that recommending RCS or CVS for
> > new starters is extremely poor advice. The field of version control
> > has seriously moved on from those early tools, which were widely
> > abandoned and code migrated to more modern tools for legitimate
> > reasons. It's not a fad.
> >
> > Here's a discussion of GIT features vs CVS ... it's ten years old.
> > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/802573/difference-between-git-an
> >d-cvs/824241#824241
>
> Thats a good list of git-cvs comparison
> One can get similar lists for svn vs cvs etc
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1261/what-are-the-advantages-of-us
>ing-svn-over-cvs
>
> What does that have to do with Gene's needs/request?
>
> We can all agree with these facts
> rcs followed by cvs followed by svn followed by git
>
> From which follows the conclusion:
> git obsoletes svn obsoletes cvs obsoletes rcs
>
> Except that the last 'obsoletes' is wrong because rcs is so much
> simpler that it can be taken to solve a quite different problem
> altogether
>
> To summarize the 1st 2nd 3rd version ideas from
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_Control_System#Related_tools_an
>d_successors
>
> 1st gen : file based revisions (rcs)
> 2nd gen : client-server model, concurrency (the 'c' in cvs)
> Actually the first faltering steps towards
> multi-user, multi-machine, multi-location multi-OS etc usage
> (zillion other multis eg multi-line-ending support etc)
> 3rd gen : simplify client-server to peer2peer, disconnected usage,
> speed etc
>
> What features beyond 1st-gen are of any use to someone with Gene's
> usage scenario viz. a single-user, single (config) file on a single
> machine??
>
Finally, some understands the difference, thank you.  Finding the save-as 
stuff in geany, apparently disabled by default, is exactly the stuff I 
needed.

> Note that the fact that git is strongly biased towards projects
> (directories) rather than files has made people have this kind of
> discussion [see the accepted answer]
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11128434/how-can-i-use-git-to-trac
>k-versions-of-a-single-file
>
> And even try to implement zit:
>
> Note the blurb from
> https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php?title=Interfaces,_frontends,_and
>_tools#Zit
>
> | Zit by Giuseppe Bilotta is the Git-based single file content
> | tracker; it uses Git to independently track single files within a
> | directory; sort of like what RCS does, but with the power,
> | flexibility, elegance and ease of use of Git. Still in alpha stage.
> | You can get it from `git://git.oblomov.eu/zit`


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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