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Groups > linux.debian.user > #203792 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100 |
| Last post | 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 16 on this page of 96 — 21 participants |
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Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 15:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 17:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-02 21:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-03 01:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 22:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-01-02 18:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-02 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-01-03 12:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-01-04 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gary Dale <garyndp@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 05:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-03 16:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server steef <debian.linux@home.nl> - 2019-01-03 16:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 17:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-03 20:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 22:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 23:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 04:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 09:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 12:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 21:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 21:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:40 +0100
Re: bad printing results (was: Why choose Debian on server) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-04 23:20 +0100
Re: bad printing results (was: Why choose Debian on server) Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-04-03 16:10 +0200
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 10:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 12:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 14:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 13:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 15:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-05 20:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 01:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 13:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 14:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 16:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 17:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 17:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 19:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-10 11:10 +0100
Re: long page screenshots (was: Why choose Debian on server) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-07 01:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 01:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 19:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-08 01:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-09 20:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-09 21:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-16 00:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 18:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-10 21:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 02:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-07 15:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 19:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-08 14:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-04 16:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 19:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server francis picabia <fpicabia@gmail.com> - 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdixc-43c-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204112 |
On Sunday 06 January 2019 08:42:08 deloptes wrote: > Curt wrote: > > I suppose you could argue that the percentage of Firefox users too > > lazy or bewildered to try another browser is good enough for > > stackexchange, because, goddammit, you take what you can get. > > Please be nice - I am not lazy - I have Chromium, but I do not want to > use it. I like FF more and I can not accept the argument regarding 1 > page printing in FF, because other sites do not have the problem, > hence it is doable to overcome the issue from within the site (perhaps > css definitions - I do not know what exactly the issue is and I do not > care). If site developers may embed 100s of lines of code to check > browser and version and can adapt their sites to IE,FF and Chromium > the least, they could also take care of this "feature", so lazy is not > me, but the one that does not care, test or provide proper support for > printing from within FF. This is my opinion only, you may accept or > not... and I agree with Gene - stackexchange is phony in their > philosophy, but it is their right to be so and my right to qualify it > as such. OF course you have the right to have a different opinion and > I respect this. > > regards 10-4 good buddy. +10 on this opinion if we are voting on it. Stackexchange allowing this to occur when its a correctable problem, says to me that it may be retribution for not showing a commercial, yet I don't have any such filters installed. If FF refuses to play it, it is not my personal choice, but FF's. But looking at my web page stats shows that FF is down to 2% of the visitors, googlebot and Safari are the top 2. googlebot, their indexing spider is at 51%. Why is googlebot so damned intersted in my web page? When I put that web page up it took me a while to put it is my sig, and I put it on an odd port so it wouldn't attract folks touring port 80 to see who they could hack next. Despite that attempt at obscurity, google had it indexed 3 hours later. In any event stackexchange has managed to get some publicity, good or bad being immaterial, which is probably what they are after anyway, based on there being no such thing as bad publicity. Well, there are a few failed bulbs in their marquee. IMO of course. Cheers, Gene Heskett --
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdixc-43c-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204112 |
On 2019-01-06, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: > Curt wrote: > >> I suppose you could argue that the percentage of Firefox users too lazy >> or bewildered to try another browser is good enough for stackexchange, >> because, goddammit, you take what you can get. > > Please be nice - I am not lazy - I have Chromium, but I do not want to use > it. I like FF more and I can not accept the argument regarding 1 page > printing in FF, because other sites do not have the problem, hence it is > doable to overcome the issue from within the site (perhaps css > definitions - I do not know what exactly the issue is and I do not care). > If site developers may embed 100s of lines of code to check browser and > version and can adapt their sites to IE,FF and Chromium the least, they > could also take care of this "feature", so lazy is not me, but the one that > does not care, test or provide proper support for printing from within FF. > This is my opinion only, you may accept or not... and I agree with Gene - > stackexchange is phony in their philosophy, but it is their right to be so > and my right to qualify it as such. OF course you have the right to have a > different opinion and I respect this. I have no different opinion (I don't think). I know nothing about stackexchange. I am indifferent to stackexchange. However, if you want to print that full thread on stackexchange, like *Gene wanted to print that full thread*, and your horse is so high you won't open Chromium to do it and insist on using FF, well, then, you are out of luck, son. I do note the Bugzilla-Mozilla folks (if they even exist) seem to consider this very long-standing printing snafu in FF to be a bug (the apparently platform-independent creature's still alive and kicking after 15 years and four months!): https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258397 No mention of stackexchange, though. Two years ago Jim Scott complained in the bugzilla above that the Canada Revenue Agency website suffers from the problem (having lower moral standards than some, he gave up on FF and used Chrome to print his tax return). And so it goes.
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdkIG-5kc-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204119 |
Curt wrote: > I have no different opinion (I don't think). I know nothing about > stackexchange. I am indifferent to stackexchange. However, if you want > to print that full thread on stackexchange, like *Gene wanted to print > that full thread*, and your horse is so high you won't open Chromium to > do it and insist on using FF, well, then, you are out of luck, son. > Honestly I never thought of this :) As I said I never use it > I do note the Bugzilla-Mozilla folks (if they even exist) seem to > consider this very long-standing printing snafu in FF to be a bug (the > apparently platform-independent creature's still alive and kicking after > 15 years and four months!): > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258397 > > No mention of stackexchange, though. Two years ago Jim Scott complained > in the bugzilla above that the Canada Revenue Agency website suffers > from the problem (having lower moral standards than some, he gave up on > FF and used Chrome to print his tax return). > If I were having the problem I surely would "lower" my "moral standard" and tried chrome, if I knew it would work ... but luckily where I live the website of the ministry of finance is working properly compared to the above mentioned sites. > And so it goes.
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 15:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdDLj-mn-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204131 |
On 2019-01-06, deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: > Curt wrote: > >> I have no different opinion (I don't think). I know nothing about >> stackexchange. I am indifferent to stackexchange. However, if you want >> to print that full thread on stackexchange, like *Gene wanted to print >> that full thread*, and your horse is so high you won't open Chromium to >> do it and insist on using FF, well, then, you are out of luck, son. >> > > Honestly I never thought of this :) As I said I never use it > I confirmed here (before growing snarky and rude, veuillez m'excuser), after Gene lamented only being able to print the first page of a stackexchange thread he desired saving for ulterior, offline consultation, that he'd stumbled upon a long-standing FF printing bug that didn't affect Chromium (I ultimately emailed him a pdf of the thread I printed to file with that open-source browser). Gene responded with, at the very least, an undemonstrated (and probably undemonstrable) conspiracy theory about stackexchange, viz. that the site owners may be triggering the bug intentionally in order to induce people to sign up, which I found to be an unexpected hard right turn down what I quite innocently believed was a perfectly straight and uncluttered road. Then you, if I'm remembering correctly, joined in to profess your own distrust or dislike of stackexchange and your refusal to use Chromium to obviate a very long-standing FF bug that you appear to claim or strongly suggest only impacts the stackexchange web site. https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/ad8p3f/my_wife_has_fallen_for_the_antivax_nonsense_and/ Try that on for size. But maybe Reddit is part of the conspiracy.* Anyway, I was wrong to be rude, and also wrong to say you were out of luck hitting the bug if you refused using another browser, as we've discovered together in the spirit of fraternity other ways to skin that cat. *Perhaps a more rational explanation (or at least one to which Popper's Principle of Falsifiability might be applied): https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1198054 There are some combinations of style rules that Firefox handles perfectly fine when it doesn't need to break pages, but which do not break correctly at print time. I wish I could give you a list, but that would require hours of research. The ones that leap to mind: display: flex display: inline-block on tall elements display: table on elements that are not a table display: table-cell on elements that are not a td overflow/overflow-y rules Also, Firefox cannot paginate the fieldset tag.
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-07 19:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdHvA-2Hv-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204170 |
Curt wrote: > Then you, if I'm remembering correctly, joined in to profess your own > distrust or dislike of stackexchange and your refusal to use Chromium to > obviate a very long-standing FF bug that you appear to claim or strongly > suggest only impacts the stackexchange web site. > I bag a pardon - I just mentioned that the same FF works for many other web sites and that it is not up to the site owner to correct this - either by workaround or by contacting FF and making pressure. I do not understand why I should change my behavior and as Gene mentioned start a program that by default is compromised just to print one single page. > https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/ad8p3f/my_wife_has_fallen_for_the_antivax_nonsense_and/ > > Try that on for size. But maybe Reddit is part of the conspiracy.* Who know, who knows ... nowdays anything is possible ... and if you believe or not I have found out many sites that pretend to be something they are not most of all NGOs funded by CIA. And it is not only sites, but companies and people as well, so in fact I can not be sure even who you are or who is Gene, though with Gene all seems to be OK - but with you promoting Chrome - come on ... tell me I have to run windows to print the stupid pages :) ... and please do not take it personal. > Anyway, I was wrong to be rude, and also wrong to say you were out of > luck hitting the bug if you refused using another browser, as we've > discovered together in the spirit of fraternity other ways to skin that > cat. Thank you and in the name of the fraternity - love and peace :) > > *Perhaps a more rational explanation (or at least one to which > Popper's Principle of Falsifiability might be applied): > > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1198054 > > There are some combinations of style rules that Firefox handles > perfectly fine when it doesn't need to break pages, but which do not > break correctly at print time. I wish I could give you a list, but that > would require hours of research. > > The ones that leap to mind: > > display: flex > display: inline-block on tall elements > display: table on elements that are not a table > display: table-cell on elements that are not a td > overflow/overflow-y rules > Also, Firefox cannot paginate the fieldset tag. Thanks, might be FF problem, but it is up to the site owner to provide a solution or to get in touch with FF. The ignorance of the site owner speaks for itself, or do you have any communication on the issue with stackexchange. Thanks and regards
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-06 16:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdi4a-3E0-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204110 |
On Sunday 06 January 2019 07:40:44 Curt wrote: > On 2019-01-06, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: > >> > > I can confirm the 1 page Firefox printing snafu for the > >> > > stackexchange thread on the most recent stable Quantum. I can > >> > > also confirm that it is a *very* longstanding bug and that > >> > > snafu is indeed the proper acronymic term. > >> > > > >> > > In Chromium, though, the problem is absent. > >> > > >> > I think the question about is it on purpose on the part of > >> > stackexchange might be a prod to make on sign up for their spam, > >> > aka known as signing up and logging in. I did not, having been > >> > forced to sign up for cnczone to gain access to something I > >> > wanted, which trippled my incoming spam, with one of the spammers > >> > being so far out he scores 11.8 to spamd scanning the incoming > >> > mail. A new record here. And it started 30 seconds after I'd > >> > filled out their plain as hell phishing form. > >> > >> Words of wisdom I heard recently - TANSTAAFL. > > > > Yep, perfect interpretation, Brian. > > The one-page only snafu is a well-known and long-standing Firefox > printing bug impacting any number of web sites that affects neither > Chromium nor its derivatives. If its so long standing, why have I not see it before. That was a first. > As Chrome would appear to be the most popular extant browser (when > counting across all platforms, as well as uniquely on the desktop) > your stackexchange conspiracy theory looks to be leaking some > significant credibility through a rather large hole. Chromium? It got removed when wireshark and I caught it calling home while I was doing some online banking. Same with palemoon earlier. I had to change everything including my CC over the next week. But you are correct, the firefox I have refuses to play videos from news stories entirely too often. But it plays everything you-tube sends. IMO its a POS, the vacuum suckage for your info is insatiable. > I suppose you could argue that the percentage of Firefox users too > lazy or bewildered to try another browser is good enough for > stackexchange, because, goddammit, you take what you can get. > > To that argument I have my own acronymic rejoinder, derived from the > old Cockney dictum: YPYMAYTYC. > > https://www.nytimes.com/1988/02/28/magazine/on-language-you-pays-yer-m >oney.html > :) > > Cheers, Gene Heskett Cheers, Gene Heskett --
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-08 14:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xdZiO-5o7-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204097 |
On 2019-01-05, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: > > I think the question about is it on purpose on the part of stackexchange In researching this bug, I recently discovered bugzilla.mozilla.org itself triggers the bug. Just drumming up business, as it were, I guess. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1339370
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcEJs-4U9-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204028 |
On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 15:27:11 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for > > > the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the > > > pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also > > > have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install > > > a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. > > > And installer that actually works would be nice as a make install > > > doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, > > > from the linux-rt lists announcements do not seem to have that > > > recipe in the makefiles. > > > > There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied whatever it > > needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from NFS server. This > > made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet you can as well > > > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-pr > >ocess-and-the-partition-table > > One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! What the he!! good is > it if I can't take a print out to the machine and checkmark the steps as > I go. Way to go stackexchange, not!. But I did anyway. :) The workaround I use is to type ^A (selects all the text), then paste into an emacs window. You lose the fancy formatting, so sometimes it's worth editing it a little to make things clear. Images complicate matters. Cheers, David.
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| From | Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcFcu-5jF-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204032 |
On 01/04/2019 03:52 PM, David Wright wrote: > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 15:27:11 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: >> On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: >>> Gene Heskett wrote: >>>> I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for >>>> the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the >>>> pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also >>>> have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install >>>> a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. >>>> And installer that actually works would be nice as a make install >>>> doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, >>>> from the linux-rt lists announcements do not seem to have that >>>> recipe in the makefiles. >>> There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied whatever it >>> needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from NFS server. This >>> made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet you can as well >>> >>> Fore example see "The Boot" here >>> https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-pr >>> ocess-and-the-partition-table >> One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! What the he!! good is >> it if I can't take a print out to the machine and checkmark the steps as >> I go. Way to go stackexchange, not!. But I did anyway. :) > The workaround I use is to type ^A (selects all the text), then paste > into an emacs window. You lose the fancy formatting, so sometimes it's > worth editing it a little to make things clear. Images complicate matters. > > Cheers, > David. > > I used cut-and-paste--Start with Raspian Boot Process and mark everything. As it starts to run off the screen at the bottom, use the down arrow to mark the rest. Control-C. Then I pasted the test into Kate. No sweat, and I don't have to learn emacs! If you don't have Kate, you must have another simple word processor type thing. --doug
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcFPd-5LN-35@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204041 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 16:27:45 Doug wrote: > On 01/04/2019 03:52 PM, David Wright wrote: > > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 15:27:11 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > >>> Gene Heskett wrote: > >>>> I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But > >>>> for the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually > >>>> do the pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done > >>>> as I also have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have > >>>> seen apt install a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice > >>>> to its u-sd card. And installer that actually works would be nice > >>>> as a make install doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel > >>>> sources I have pulled, from the linux-rt lists announcements do > >>>> not seem to have that recipe in the makefiles. > >>> > >>> There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied > >>> whatever it needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from > >>> NFS server. This made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet > >>> you can as well > >>> > >>> Fore example see "The Boot" here > >>> https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boo > >>>t-pr ocess-and-the-partition-table > >> > >> One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! What the he!! > >> good is it if I can't take a print out to the machine and checkmark > >> the steps as I go. Way to go stackexchange, not!. But I did > >> anyway. :) > > > > The workaround I use is to type ^A (selects all the text), then > > paste into an emacs window. You lose the fancy formatting, so > > sometimes it's worth editing it a little to make things clear. > > Images complicate matters. > > > > Cheers, > > David. > > I used cut-and-paste--Start with Raspian Boot Process and mark > everything. As it starts to run off the screen at the bottom, use the > down arrow to mark the rest. > Control-C. Then I pasted the test into Kate. No sweat, and I don't > have to learn emacs! > If you don't have Kate, you must have another simple word processor > type thing. > > --doug I've even used nano like that. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcEJs-4U9-25@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204028 |
Hi Gene, On Fri, Jan 04, 2019 at 03:27:11PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-pr > >ocess-and-the-partition-table > > One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! One can obtain a plain text copy of the source of a Stack Exchange answer by clicking on the date of the answer and then clicking on the "source" link. https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/revisions/f5dc1641-0ca8-4824-be0e-98985d8f83cd/view-source Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcF2O-5gm-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204033 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 15:57:24 Andy Smith wrote: > Hi Gene, > > On Fri, Jan 04, 2019 at 03:27:11PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boo > > >t-pr ocess-and-the-partition-table > > > > One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! > > One can obtain a plain text copy of the source of a Stack Exchange > answer by clicking on the date of the answer and then clicking on > the "source" link. > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/revisions/f5dc1641-0ca8-4824-be0 >e-98985d8f83cd/view-source > I'll try to remember that. I did look around for a print tool, but there isn't one. Thanks Andy. > Cheers, > Andy Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcFvP-5pZ-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204028 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > Disk /dev/mmcblk0p1: 41 MiB, 42991616 bytes, 83968 sectors > Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disklabel type: dos > Disk identifier: 0x00000000 > > No partitions, so much of the rest isn't applicable. "The boot" explains well how the boot works, otherwise check this https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/ But to me it was not very useful This is another one that shows the boot process https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/10442/what-is-the-boot-sequence The point is that you can fully customize/optimize the RPI by fine tuning it. However I did not find meaningful application for it :), but it looks like you may. regards
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 16:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcz74-1vc-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203935 |
On 2019-01-04, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: >> >> Dear Ivan, no one said something about systemd, because the topic was >> discussed and closed on the list. >> Not sure about Gene, but I use good old sysv init and for Gods sake, >> no one thinks of running systemd on a firewall (I hope) >> > Just one of the reasons I have 5 boxes here running wheezy yet, one > running jessie. But its an armhf, an r-pi 3b TBE, and it is also behind > dd-wrt. Perhaps I should watch the dd-wrt logs to see if Ivan has come > calling but no one answered the doorbell? You're running an obsolete release with no security support on five machines to obviate the eventuality of getting cracked by the Ruskies?
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 19:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcCoi-3BF-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203978 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 09:57:07 Curt wrote: > On 2019-01-04, Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote: > >> Dear Ivan, no one said something about systemd, because the topic > >> was discussed and closed on the list. > >> Not sure about Gene, but I use good old sysv init and for Gods > >> sake, no one thinks of running systemd on a firewall (I hope) > > > > Just one of the reasons I have 5 boxes here running wheezy yet, one > > running jessie. But its an armhf, an r-pi 3b TBE, and it is also > > behind dd-wrt. Perhaps I should watch the dd-wrt logs to see if > > Ivan has come calling but no one answered the doorbell? > > You're running an obsolete release with no security support on five > machines to obviate the eventuality of getting cracked by the Ruskies? I'd be having nightmares if they were all hooked to the net with nothing but a switch or hub, but they are not. dd-wrt is the guard dog, and he's insatiable, eats that stuff up and never gets fat or leaves any excrement/residue. Best kept security secret I know of. A little bit like JoAnne Dow's pet dragon Mikey, who'se trained to answer the doorbell. Cucamonga(sp?), where JoAnne lives, ran out of door to door salesmen years ago. Even if I was to update my stuff, I'd have to save out and reinstall a 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae kernel (which isn't in fact pae) because its an rtai patched kernel which can run the base thread at a 25 microsecond repetition rate with latency's in the 2 microsecond timing error at the 50% point in a histogram. Normal kernels are just a big splat spread over 100's of milliseconds. Even worse if an nvidia driver is installed. You cannot drive a stepper motor when you haven't a real heartbeat. So later kernels have to be patched to even maintain a decent 1 millisecond servo thread rate, using an fpga card to handle the microsecond critical stuff. And that raises the cost of an LCNC install, depending on what you want the machine to do, by as much as $300 a machine. Because of poor kernel performance, there is no new full iso release of LinuxCNC newer than an older wheezy. The LCNC buildbot has stuff for stretch, but only for simulation, the realtime stuff just doesn't cut it. For either jessie or stretch. My jessie install on an r-pi-3b is bleeding edge and occasionally needs bandaids. Mostly avoided by my pinning the kernel and its matching library, both of which have a totally different numbering scheme from the normal x86 versions. uname -a reports it as 4.4.4-rt9-v7+ #7 SMP PREEMPT RT. And a latency-test report says I should move more of the not so time critical stuff to an even slower thread, its taking the 1 millisecond servo loop around 1.25 milliseconds to run. I have 90% of the hand controls running in a slower 5 millisecond (200 hertz) loop. There are no hand cranks on that 70 yo machine, motors driving ball screws have replaced all that, so it has $20 encoder dials from mpja.com to move it by hand. Movement per click adjustable starting at .0001" per click. All built by me. Stephen R. has found the biggest timing problem with the later 64 bit kernels and is directing the effort to get rid of that time wasting call in favor of something faster, so I'm copying the linux-rt list to track that effort. But this is already TL;DR. And I have to go see if my missus is ready for some lunch. Take care now Curt. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | francis picabia <fpicabia@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xf7ei-6dv-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203792 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Both Debian and CentOS are good choices for a server OS. We use both in my workplace. We don't install a desktop. It is not required and it is a waste of resources. Debian is a good fit for developers, as there is a great breadth of packages, and often more recent. CentOS is easier to manage as an Apache server - the way Debian does it with dozens of little files to enable is harder for someone with Redhat background to master. The bonus with CentOS/Redhat is long support lifecycle. You can install it and keep it running for up to 10 years, with updates. Debian does not do that, however it provides for good upgrade support in situ, and this is generally safe to do with relatively little downtime. The downside of CentOS/Redhat is the packages like open source DB or PHP will be older than what many applications want, and you'll need to work with 3rd party repositories such as Webtatic to get the versions you want. That's fine, except it introduces a new variable. We've run into a situation where we want to install a new server identical to the production version and the repository no longer carries the version of PHP it once did. It's free, so there are no guarantees they want to continue patching older versions for security issues, backports, etc. On the other hand, Redhat has people who are paid to do the backports, so even with older PHP it is being maintained, and that gets passed on to CentOS packages. To get into a specific, CentOS 7.5 provides php 5.4 currently, which is fairly old, while the current release of Debian 9.6 provides php 7.0. We generally gravitate to CentOS when the application is relatively boring like a CMS that is widely used. When the application requires exotic packages that are not available in CentOS, like a bunch of perl modules (e.g. netdisco) then we tend to go with Debian. The reasoning is we want the whole thing updated for security without after thoughts, and stuff installed by cpan under CentOS will be installed once and forgotten. In my mind it is all about best fit for the job. You try not to carry a bias into the selection just so you can slap more stickers onto servers. On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 6:51 AM Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi list, > I'm new to this list and I'm choosing the right distribution for server > needs. I hope that I'm not OT and don't want start a flame. I'm > evaluating the possibility to switch on debian so I hope you will give > your experiences about this topic. > > At the moment I'm using CentOS 7 on server and workstation but very old > software, add third repos for get some software, use unmaintained > software where patchs are released by dev distro team, big changes > between a current release and next release, big corporation piloted > distro, waiting that rh release a security patches and then recompiled > on centos, problem on new hardware, unable to install new software from > source due to old libs get me bored, and frustated in the last year. I > like flexibility and I noticed that centos chains my knowledge. > > Today seems that RH Family is the standard and rh is more supported by > software vendors. Considering 10 years of support, Selinux working out > of the box, stability, enteprise class and free distro..user choose > Centos with the perception that things work better because all is > "followed" by a corporation. With this assumption users feel more secure > and unfailing. > > This is not necessarely true. I think that is the sysadmin that make > things safer, secure and unfailing. Sure that a stable and reliable OS > take his part but when big blue take this game I'm not so sure about > centos future. What if someone will choose to drop centos project? Maybe > this is premature but from this "Why not choose a stable and community > piloted distro where user needs are first purpose?" > > I used Debian in the past on several server for a big company without > any problems but now are several years that I use centos on server and > workstation and today I lost my debian knowledge about stability on > server usage. > > Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than centos > and other server distro? > > Thanks in advance. > Alessandro. > >
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