Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > linux.debian.user > #203870 > unrolled thread

Upgrade Problem

Started by"Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net>
First post2019-01-03 16:00 +0100
Last post2019-01-04 16:00 +0100
Articles 14 on this page of 94 — 25 participants

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user


Contents

  Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 16:00 +0100
    Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 17:20 +0100
      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem steve <dlist@bluewin.ch> - 2019-01-03 17:40 +0100
        Re: Upgrade Problem Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-01-03 18:30 +0100
          Re: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 18:40 +0100
      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 17:40 +0100
        Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 18:20 +0100
        Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 18:40 +0100
          Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100
            Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 20:40 +0100
              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-03 20:50 +0100
              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-03 20:50 +0100
                Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 21:20 +0100
                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:30 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-03 21:40 +0100
                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 22:20 +0100
                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Frank Weißer <linux@weisser-ol.de> - 2019-01-04 10:30 +0100
              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 21:40 +0100
                Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-03 22:30 +0100
                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-03 23:00 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-03 23:30 +0100
                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 01:30 +0100
                        Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-04 11:20 +0100
                          Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-04 13:40 +0100
                            Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-04 13:40 +0100
                              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:00 +0100
                                Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-04 19:40 +0100
                                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 20:00 +0100
                                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100
                                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-04 21:20 +0100
                                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 21:20 +0100
                                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100
                                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:10 +0100
                                        Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 08:20 +0100
                                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 20:50 +0100
                                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100
                                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 20:50 +0100
                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-03 23:10 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-04 14:10 +0100
                Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 03:30 +0100
                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-04 14:20 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 14:50 +0100
                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-04 15:00 +0100
                        Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:30 +0100
                          Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-04 19:40 +0100
                            Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 21:00 +0100
                              Re: Upgrade Problem Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-04 21:30 +0100
                                Re: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 23:00 +0100
                          Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 19:50 +0100
                            Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 01:40 +0100
                              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 06:30 +0100
                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-01-04 15:50 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 18:10 +0100
              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-03 21:40 +0100
          Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100
          Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100
            Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 20:20 +0100
              Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 20:50 +0100
                Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:40 +0100
                  Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 21:50 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 22:10 +0100
                      Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2019-01-04 03:20 +0100
                        Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 09:10 +0100
                    Re: Fwd: Upgrade Problem Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 03:40 +0100
                    Re: Upgrade Problem Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-04 04:50 +0100
                      Re: Upgrade Problem Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-04 09:50 +0100
                        Overhead of LVM (Re: Upgrade Problem) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 14:20 +0100
                          Re: Overhead of LVM (Re: Upgrade Problem) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-01-04 14:30 +0100
                            Re: Overhead of LVM (Re: Upgrade Problem) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 05:10 +0100
                              Re: Overhead of LVM (Re: Upgrade Problem) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-01-05 08:40 +0100
                        Re: Upgrade Problem Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-01-04 21:10 +0100
                          Re: Upgrade Problem Stefan Krusche <linux@stefan-krusche.de> - 2019-03-10 14:30 +0100
                      Re: Upgrade Problem Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2019-01-04 11:20 +0100
    Re: Upgrade Problem Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 18:20 +0100
      Re: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 18:40 +0100
        Re: Upgrade Problem Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 03:20 +0100
          Re: Upgrade Problem Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2019-01-04 03:50 +0100
            Re: Upgrade Problem Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-04 10:00 +0100
              Re: Upgrade Problem Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-04 10:40 +0100
                Re: Upgrade Problem David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 17:30 +0100
                  Re: Upgrade Problem Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-04 19:50 +0100
                    Re: Upgrade Problem David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 21:30 +0100
                      Re: allocating disk space (was: Upgrade Problem) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-05 01:40 +0100
                        Re: allocating disk space (was: Upgrade Problem) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-10 01:10 +0100
                          Re: allocating disk space Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-11 08:20 +0100
                            Re: allocating disk space David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-13 14:20 +0100
              Re: Upgrade Problem Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 11:50 +0100
                Re: Upgrade Problem Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-01-04 13:00 +0100
                Re: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-04 14:30 +0100
    Re: Upgrade Problem songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2019-01-03 20:00 +0100
      Re: Upgrade Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-01-03 20:40 +0100
        Re: Upgrade Problem David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-03 21:00 +0100
          Re: Upgrade Problem Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-01-03 21:10 +0100
        Re: Upgrade Problem Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2019-01-04 16:00 +0100

Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]


#204005

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2019-01-04 19:50 +0100
Message-ID<xcCHE-3Ir-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203982
David Wright composed on 2019-01-04 10:19 (UTC-0600):

> On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 04:30:00 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:

>>> This partitioning scheme seems really odd and unwieldy.  

>> Indeed. Considering the absence of a sysadmin,

> What's so unusual about that?

Standing alone, absolutely nothing, but it wasn't standing alone....

>> absence of 2 possible primary partitions on sda,

> If the OP partitioned an MBR disk intending to subdivide the
> filesystem, then it might be expected that they create an extended
> partition. Why bother with holding off until you've got two
> primary partitions set up first?

Off the top of my head:

1-trivial I know, but avoiding seeing fdisk report "Partition table entries are not in disk order"

2-less trivial: partitions not being in disk order

3-potential to have a primary partition added following a logical, thereby making following
freespace unavailable for one or more added logicals (disappearing freespace).

>> and the absence of sda6,

> I assume that's swap.

Yes, but:

# df -hl
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1        23G   23G     0 100% /
/dev/sda2	?			extended (presumably)
/dev/sda5       9.2G  6.0G  2.8G  69% /var
/dev/sda6	?	?	?	swap
/dev/sda7       1.9G  6.5M  1.7G   1% /tmp
/dev/sda8       416G  103G  292G  27% /home
?freespace?	?

Where is the logic responsible for the original allocations? Would any Debian Installer have done it
without intervention from the admin? It looks like the work of a naive admin. Yet, OP claimed "I
haven't messed around with partitioning since the early days of Slackware, and that was with a great
deal of trepidation".

> ...but the OP would become a better sysadmin by learning something during the cleanup.

Indeed!
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#204027

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2019-01-04 21:30 +0100
Message-ID<xcEgq-4JU-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#204005
On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 13:41:33 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2019-01-04 10:19 (UTC-0600):
> 
> > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 04:30:00 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >>> This partitioning scheme seems really odd and unwieldy.  
> 
> >> Indeed. Considering the absence of a sysadmin,
> 
> > What's so unusual about that?
> 
> Standing alone, absolutely nothing, but it wasn't standing alone....

(The OP is standing alone, leaving us aside.)

By snipping the rhetorical question that introduces my paragraph, it
now appears that "unusual" refers to the partitioning scheme. It
doesn't. It refers to the absence of a sysadmin. Here's the paragraph
again:

“What's so unusual about that? For a long time I ran linux and work but
 didn't consider myself an "operator" or "sysadmin". Employees in those
 categories ran closed shops of MS and Apple kit, plus a splinter group
 running what they considered "proper" unix on kit that I couldn't
 start to afford. Most of mine was 2nd hand PC cast offs.”

> >> absence of 2 possible primary partitions on sda,
> 
> > If the OP partitioned an MBR disk intending to subdivide the
> > filesystem, then it might be expected that they create an extended
> > partition. Why bother with holding off until you've got two
> > primary partitions set up first?
> 
> Off the top of my head:
> 
> 1-trivial I know, but avoiding seeing fdisk report "Partition table entries are not in disk order"
> 
> 2-less trivial: partitions not being in disk order

I don't understand. The time sequence would be

sda1=primary [                         free                                      ]

sda1=primary [                      "sda2"=extended                              ]

sda1=primary [ sda5=logical                            free                      ]

sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical                   free                  ]

sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical sda7=logical           free             ]

sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical sda7=logical sda8=logical possibly-free ]

What's out of order?

> 3-potential to have a primary partition added following a logical, thereby making following
> freespace unavailable for one or more added logicals (disappearing freespace).

With the scenario above, it would be usual to fill the disk with the
extended partition, so there's no possibility of adding another primary.
There may be occasional instances like the following squence, but
they'd be pretty rare in comparison:

sda1=primary  sda2=primary   sda3=primary sda4=primary

sda1=primary     free        sda3=primary sda4=primary

sda1=primary "sda2"=extended sda3=primary sda4=primary

> >> and the absence of sda6,
> 
> > I assume that's swap.

Yes.

> Yes, but:
> 
> # df -hl
> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda1        23G   23G     0 100% /
> /dev/sda2	?			extended (presumably)
> /dev/sda5       9.2G  6.0G  2.8G  69% /var
> /dev/sda6	?	?	?	swap
> /dev/sda7       1.9G  6.5M  1.7G   1% /tmp
> /dev/sda8       416G  103G  292G  27% /home
> ?freespace?	?
> 
> Where is the logic responsible for the original allocations? Would any Debian Installer have done it
> without intervention from the admin? It looks like the work of a naive admin. Yet, OP claimed "I
> haven't messed around with partitioning since the early days of Slackware, and that was with a great
> deal of trepidation".

We have no idea without being told the earlier history of the scheme,
what the intent was at the time of creating them, and how their
subsequent use evolved.

Here's the partition table of this laptop. Care to guess it's
evolution?

Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size
   1            2048         2050047   1000.0 MiB
   2         2050048         2582527   260.0 MiB
   3         2582528         4630527   1000.0 MiB
   4         4630528         4892671   128.0 MiB
   5         4892672       347348991   163.3 GiB
   6       347348992       429268991   39.1 GiB     /
   7       429268992       511188991   39.1 GiB
   8       511188992       883275775   177.4 GiB    /home
   9       883275776       883292159   8.0 MiB
  10       883292160       892084223   4.2 GiB      swap
  11       892086272       892803071   350.0 MiB
  12       892803072       894900223   1024.0 MiB
  13       894900224       947329023   25.0 GiB
  14       947329024       976773119   14.0 GiB

Constrained by an inability to repartition the disk, how would
you distribute a Debian system across it while wasting the
least space?

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#204053 — Re: allocating disk space (was: Upgrade Problem)

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2019-01-05 01:40 +0100
SubjectRe: allocating disk space (was: Upgrade Problem)
Message-ID<xcIam-72E-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#204027
David Wright composed on 2019-01-04 14:27 (UTC-0600):

> On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 13:41:33 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:

>> David Wright composed on 2019-01-04 10:19 (UTC-0600):

>> > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 04:30:00 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:

>> >>> This partitioning scheme seems really odd and unwieldy.  

>> >> Indeed. Considering the absence of a sysadmin,

>> > What's so unusual about that?

>> Standing alone, absolutely nothing, but it wasn't standing alone....

> (The OP is standing alone, leaving us aside.)

> By snipping the rhetorical question that introduces my paragraph, it
> now appears that "unusual" refers to the partitioning scheme. It
> doesn't.

It wasn't intended to.

> It refers to the absence of a sysadmin. 

Intended.

>> >> absence of 2 possible primary partitions on sda,
>> 
>> > If the OP partitioned an MBR disk intending to subdivide the
>> > filesystem, then it might be expected that they create an extended
>> > partition. Why bother with holding off until you've got two
>> > primary partitions set up first?

>> Off the top of my head:

>> 1-trivial I know, but avoiding seeing fdisk report "Partition table entries are not in disk order"

>> 2-less trivial: partitions not being in disk order

> I don't understand. The time sequence would be

> sda1=primary [                         free                                      ]

> sda1=primary [                      "sda2"=extended                              ]

> sda1=primary [ sda5=logical                            free                      ]

> sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical                   free                  ]

> sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical sda7=logical           free             ]

> sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical sda7=logical sda8=logical possibly-free ]

> What's out of order?

This looks like it's assuming reference to the OP's disk state, which is not what I was writing
about. AFAIK, when entries /are/ out of order, far more steps had to have been involved than those
you listed.

>> 3-potential to have a primary partition added following a logical, thereby making following
>> freespace unavailable for one or more added logicals (disappearing freespace).

> With the scenario above, it would be usual to fill the disk with the
> extended partition, so there's no possibility of adding another primary.

Yes, when filling the disk at the outset. With the escalation of disk sizes over the years, it's
become more common not to allocate 100% at the outset. In non-ancient memory I only ever fully
allocated with my own disks at the outset with data disks, until small SDDs became cheap.

Some partitioning tools are better than others at allowing oneself to shoot oneself in the foot.

> Here's the partition table of this laptop. Care to guess it's
> evolution?

> Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size
>    1            2048         2050047   1000.0 MiB
>    2         2050048         2582527   260.0 MiB
>    3         2582528         4630527   1000.0 MiB
>    4         4630528         4892671   128.0 MiB
>    5         4892672       347348991   163.3 GiB
>    6       347348992       429268991   39.1 GiB     /
>    7       429268992       511188991   39.1 GiB
>    8       511188992       883275775   177.4 GiB    /home
>    9       883275776       883292159   8.0 MiB
>   10       883292160       892084223   4.2 GiB      swap
>   11       892086272       892803071   350.0 MiB
>   12       892803072       894900223   1024.0 MiB
>   13       894900224       947329023   25.0 GiB
>   14       947329024       976773119   14.0 GiB

> Constrained by an inability to repartition the disk, how would
> you distribute a Debian system across it while wasting the
> least space?

That's a bit sketchy. How about you do one of mine?
Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size
   1              63           80324   39.2 MiB
   2           80325          578339   243.2 MiB
   3          578340         1397654   400.1 MiB
   5         1397718         3502169   1.0 GiB     swap
   6         3502233        17848214   6.8 GiB     WinSYS
   7        17848278        30137939   5.9 GiB     /
   8        30138003        35053829   2.3 GiB     /home
   9        35053893        44451854   4.5 GiB
  10        44451918        46540304   1019.7 MiB  /usr/local
  11        46540368        58010714   5.5 GiB     /
  12        58010778        69481124   5.5 GiB     /
  13        69481188        80951534   5.5 GiB     /
  14        80951598        92421944   5.5 GiB     /
  15        92422008       103892354   5.5 GiB     /
  16       103892418       115362764   5.5 GiB     /
  17       115362828       126833174   5.5 GiB     /
  18       126833238       138303584   5.5 GiB     /
  19       138303648       149773994   5.5 GiB     /
  20       149774058       161244404   5.5 GiB     /
  21       161244468       172714814   5.5 GiB     /
  22       172714878       184185224   5.5 GiB     /
  23       184185288       195655634   5.5 GiB     /
  24       195655698       207126044   5.5 GiB     /
  25       207126108       218596454   5.5 GiB     /
  26       218596518       230066864   5.5 GiB     /
  27       230066928       241537274   5.5 GiB     /
  28       241537338       253007684   5.5 GiB
  29       253007748       264478094   5.5 GiB     /
  30       264478158       275948504   5.5 GiB     /
  31       275948568       287418914   5.5 GiB     /
  32       287418978       298889324   5.5 GiB     /

  33       937312488       961361729   11.5 GiB    Win data
  34       961361793       975707774   6.8 GiB
  35       975707838       976751999   509.8 MiB
  36       976752063       976768064   7.8 MiB

Note the relative vastness of unused space.

Can't tell the players without a program:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/gx62b.txt

BTW, 36 is near an average count here. I have one with 57, more than one with >40, and probably >8
with >30. My newest PC has 50, though spread across 3 disks, with 20 comprising 10 RAID1 devices,
and zero freespace remaining for partition creation.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#204275 — Re: allocating disk space (was: Upgrade Problem)

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2019-01-10 01:10 +0100
SubjectRe: allocating disk space (was: Upgrade Problem)
Message-ID<xew54-xD-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#204053
On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 19:36:42 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2019-01-04 14:27 (UTC-0600):
> > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 13:41:33 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> >> David Wright composed on 2019-01-04 10:19 (UTC-0600):
> >> > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 04:30:00 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> >>> This partitioning scheme seems really odd and unwieldy.  
> 
> >> >> Indeed. Considering the absence of a sysadmin,
> 
> >> > What's so unusual about that?
> 
> >> Standing alone, absolutely nothing, but it wasn't standing alone....
> 
> > (The OP is standing alone, leaving us aside.)
> 
> > By snipping the rhetorical question that introduces my paragraph, it
> > now appears that "unusual" refers to the partitioning scheme. It
> > doesn't.
> 
> It wasn't intended to.
> 
> > It refers to the absence of a sysadmin. 
> 
> Intended.
> 
> >> >> absence of 2 possible primary partitions on sda,
> >> 
> >> > If the OP partitioned an MBR disk intending to subdivide the
> >> > filesystem, then it might be expected that they create an extended
> >> > partition. Why bother with holding off until you've got two
> >> > primary partitions set up first?
> 
> >> Off the top of my head:
> 
> >> 1-trivial I know, but avoiding seeing fdisk report "Partition table entries are not in disk order"
> 
> >> 2-less trivial: partitions not being in disk order
> 
> > I don't understand. The time sequence would be
> 
> > sda1=primary [                         free                                      ]
> 
> > sda1=primary [                      "sda2"=extended                              ]
> 
> > sda1=primary [ sda5=logical                            free                      ]
> 
> > sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical                   free                  ]
> 
> > sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical sda7=logical           free             ]
> 
> > sda1=primary [ sda5=logical sda6=logical sda7=logical sda8=logical possibly-free ]
> 
> > What's out of order?
> 
> This looks like it's assuming reference to the OP's disk state, which is not what I was writing
> about. AFAIK, when entries /are/ out of order, far more steps had to have been involved than those
> you listed.
> 
> >> 3-potential to have a primary partition added following a logical, thereby making following
> >> freespace unavailable for one or more added logicals (disappearing freespace).
> 
> > With the scenario above, it would be usual to fill the disk with the
> > extended partition, so there's no possibility of adding another primary.
> 
> Yes, when filling the disk at the outset. With the escalation of disk sizes over the years, it's
> become more common not to allocate 100% at the outset. In non-ancient memory I only ever fully
> allocated with my own disks at the outset with data disks, until small SDDs became cheap.

I don't understand the reasoning.

> Some partitioning tools are better than others at allowing oneself to shoot oneself in the foot.
> 
> > Here's the partition table of this laptop. Care to guess it's
> > evolution?
> 
> > Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size
> >    1            2048         2050047   1000.0 MiB
> >    2         2050048         2582527   260.0 MiB
> >    3         2582528         4630527   1000.0 MiB
> >    4         4630528         4892671   128.0 MiB
> >    5         4892672       347348991   163.3 GiB
> >    6       347348992       429268991   39.1 GiB     /
> >    7       429268992       511188991   39.1 GiB
> >    8       511188992       883275775   177.4 GiB    /home
> >    9       883275776       883292159   8.0 MiB
> >   10       883292160       892084223   4.2 GiB      swap
> >   11       892086272       892803071   350.0 MiB
> >   12       892803072       894900223   1024.0 MiB
> >   13       894900224       947329023   25.0 GiB
> >   14       947329024       976773119   14.0 GiB
> 
> > Constrained by an inability to repartition the disk, how would
> > you distribute a Debian system across it while wasting the
> > least space?
> 
> That's a bit sketchy.

Worse then that: I don't have a clue what most of the original
partitions were for, and still don't. I just don't touch them.

Here's what I inherited:

/dev/sda1       2048   2050047   2048000 1000M Windows recovery environment
/dev/sda2    2050048   2582527    532480  260M EFI System
/dev/sda3    2582528   4630527   2048000 1000M Lenovo boot partition
/dev/sda4    4630528   4892671    262144  128M Microsoft reserved
/dev/sda5    4892672 892086271 887193600  423G Microsoft basic data
/dev/sda6  892086272 892803071    716800  350M Windows recovery environment
/dev/sda7  892803072 894900223   2097152    1G Microsoft basic data
/dev/sda8  894900224 947329023  52428800   25G Microsoft basic data
/dev/sda9  947329024 976773119  29444096   14G Windows recovery environment

I have no idea why there are three recovery partitions of vastly
differing sizes, a manufacturer's boot partition, a reserved partition
and two extra basic data partitions.

Anyway, by shrinking the windows partition sda5, I was able to carve
out five linux partitions for me:

   6       347348992       429268991   39.1 GiB    8300  Linux-A
   7       429268992       511188991   39.1 GiB    8300  Linux-B
   8       511188992       883275775   177.4 GiB   8300  Linux-Home
   9       883275776       883292159   8.0 MiB     EF02  Linux-BIOS-Boot
  10       883292160       892084223   4.2 GiB     8200  Linux-Swap

Given all 14 partitions to play with, it would be difficult to install
a system that didn't look unusual in its layout.

> How about you do one of mine?
> Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size
>    1              63           80324   39.2 MiB
>    2           80325          578339   243.2 MiB
>    3          578340         1397654   400.1 MiB
>    5         1397718         3502169   1.0 GiB     swap
>    6         3502233        17848214   6.8 GiB     WinSYS
>    7        17848278        30137939   5.9 GiB     /
>    8        30138003        35053829   2.3 GiB     /home
>    9        35053893        44451854   4.5 GiB
>   10        44451918        46540304   1019.7 MiB  /usr/local
>   11        46540368        58010714   5.5 GiB     /
>   12        58010778        69481124   5.5 GiB     /
>   13        69481188        80951534   5.5 GiB     /
>   14        80951598        92421944   5.5 GiB     /
>   15        92422008       103892354   5.5 GiB     /
>   16       103892418       115362764   5.5 GiB     /
>   17       115362828       126833174   5.5 GiB     /
>   18       126833238       138303584   5.5 GiB     /
>   19       138303648       149773994   5.5 GiB     /
>   20       149774058       161244404   5.5 GiB     /
>   21       161244468       172714814   5.5 GiB     /
>   22       172714878       184185224   5.5 GiB     /
>   23       184185288       195655634   5.5 GiB     /
>   24       195655698       207126044   5.5 GiB     /
>   25       207126108       218596454   5.5 GiB     /
>   26       218596518       230066864   5.5 GiB     /
>   27       230066928       241537274   5.5 GiB     /
>   28       241537338       253007684   5.5 GiB
>   29       253007748       264478094   5.5 GiB     /
>   30       264478158       275948504   5.5 GiB     /
>   31       275948568       287418914   5.5 GiB     /
>   32       287418978       298889324   5.5 GiB     /
> 
>   33       937312488       961361729   11.5 GiB    Win data
>   34       961361793       975707774   6.8 GiB
>   35       975707838       976751999   509.8 MiB
>   36       976752063       976768064   7.8 MiB
> 
> Note the relative vastness of unused space.

You're not the guy who boots >>100 systems off one disk, are you?

> Can't tell the players without a program:
> http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/gx62b.txt
> 
> BTW, 36 is near an average count here. I have one with 57, more than one with >40, and probably >8
> with >30. My newest PC has 50, though spread across 3 disks, with 20 comprising 10 RAID1 devices,
> and zero freespace remaining for partition creation.

Oh, perhaps you're a rival. :) I assume you foresee adding a lot more
versions of linux; only three Debian so far? And I would miss a real
DOS like the old favourite 6.22.

But seriously, take a drive, stick on (or inherit) a root partition
(1), decide you're going to divide up the (MBR-based) system, hence
create (or inherit) an extended partition. Hive off /var (5), remember
your swap (6), /tmp (7) might be a good idea, the rest for /home (8).
Nothing unusual there, and that's what the OP showed.

In fact, that's similar to what I was doing in 1997, except that sda1
was MSDOS and / was in the extended partition with all the rest.

OTOH your disk, and mine listed above, are the atypical ones.
On a typical disk in a PC I consider my own, the layout is much simpler:

Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size       Code  Name
   1            2048            8191   3.0 MiB     EF02  BIOS boot partition
   2            8192         1023999   496.0 MiB   EF00  EFI System
   3         1024000         2047999   500.0 MiB   8200  Linux swap
   4         2048000        63487999   29.3 GiB    8300  Ezra-A
   5        63488000       124927999   29.3 GiB    8300  Ezra-B
   6       124928000       976773119   406.2 GiB   8300  Ezra-Home

Odd to have 1 and 2: currently BIOS boots it on a GPT disk, but it's
prepared for use if I get my hands on an old newer machine (or is that
new older?).

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#204306 — Re: allocating disk space

FromFelix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date2019-01-11 08:20 +0100
SubjectRe: allocating disk space
Message-ID<xeZgJ-1w7-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#204275
David Wright composed on 2019-01-09 14:26 (UTC-0600):

> On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 19:36:42 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:

>> Yes, when filling the disk at the outset. With the escalation of disk sizes over the years, it's
>> become more common not to allocate 100% at the outset. In non-ancient memory I only ever fully
>> allocated with my own disks at the outset with data disks, until small SDDs became cheap.

> I don't understand the reasoning.

A Murphy corollary: Junk accumulates according to the amount of space available for it to fill.
Make the space available when you really need it, and it won't be preoccupied with junk.

>> Note the relative vastness of unused space.

> You're not the guy who boots >>100 systems off one disk, are you?

The one I remember was long ago, not 100 I think, but more than 50, likely before libata
introduction's 15 partition limit. I recently looked for his page but failed to find.

>> BTW, 36 is near an average count here. I have one with 57, more than one with >40, and
>> probably 8 with >30. My newest PC has 50, though spread across 3 disks, with 20
>> comprising 10 RAID1 devices, and zero freespace remaining for partition creation.

> Oh, perhaps you're a rival. :) I assume you foresee adding a lot more
> versions of linux; only three Debian so far? And I would miss a real
> DOS like the old favourite 6.22.

Except for Etch, I was only using Kubuntu's miscreant Debians until Jessie. All my 6.22s got
replaced with PC DOS 2000 as soon as impending Y2K caused its availability. DOS 5 remains available
under cover of OS/2's eComStation progeny (which here runs 24/7).

> ... if I get my hands on an old newer machine (or is that new older?).

I get those more often than new-in-original-box, more often broken, which I am often able to
resurrect. Maybe call them nacqres, for newly acquired resurrection/recycle/refurb. :-)
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#204377 — Re: allocating disk space

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2019-01-13 14:20 +0100
SubjectRe: allocating disk space
Message-ID<xfNQd-7aM-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#204306
On Fri 11 Jan 2019 at 02:12:19 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2019-01-09 14:26 (UTC-0600):
> 
> > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 19:36:42 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Yes, when filling the disk at the outset. With the escalation of disk sizes over the years, it's
> >> become more common not to allocate 100% at the outset. In non-ancient memory I only ever fully
> >> allocated with my own disks at the outset with data disks, until small SDDs became cheap.
> 
> > I don't understand the reasoning.
> 
> A Murphy corollary: Junk accumulates according to the amount of space available for it to fill.
> Make the space available when you really need it, and it won't be preoccupied with junk.

Fine, if it helps you. I was unaware that anyone did this for that
reason. I know there are more technical difficulties with shrinking
partitions than with expanding them, and thought it might be to do
with that.

> >> Note the relative vastness of unused space.
> 
> > You're not the guy who boots >>100 systems off one disk, are you?
> 
> The one I remember was long ago, not 100 I think, but more than 50, likely before libata
> introduction's 15 partition limit. I recently looked for his page but failed to find.

100 was superceded long ago; it was 145 by August 2016 when I last looked.
http://forums.justlinux.com/showthread.php?147959-How-to-install-and-boot-145-operating-systems-in-a-PC

> >> BTW, 36 is near an average count here. I have one with 57, more than one with >40, and
> >> probably 8 with >30. My newest PC has 50, though spread across 3 disks, with 20
> >> comprising 10 RAID1 devices, and zero freespace remaining for partition creation.
> 
> > Oh, perhaps you're a rival. :) I assume you foresee adding a lot more
> > versions of linux; only three Debian so far? And I would miss a real
> > DOS like the old favourite 6.22.
> 
> Except for Etch, I was only using Kubuntu's miscreant Debians until Jessie. All my 6.22s got
> replaced with PC DOS 2000 as soon as impending Y2K caused its availability. DOS 5 remains available
> under cover of OS/2's eComStation progeny (which here runs 24/7).
> 
> > ... if I get my hands on an old newer machine (or is that new older?).
> 
> I get those more often than new-in-original-box, more often broken, which I am often able to
> resurrect. Maybe call them nacqres, for newly acquired resurrection/recycle/refurb. :-)

In the past, the (desktop) systems I acquired were mainly deficient in
diskspace. Fortunately I managed to tap the source of 1GB disks that
were being used to make it possible to upgrade the secretaries'
windows systems (whose older PCs I was acquiring). Occasionally I
added memory (or "stole" it from other machines). Since I retired,
I've only bought disks. I've never had a new PC. The three desktops
I run date from 2000 and 2006 (2).

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203951

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2019-01-04 11:50 +0100
Message-ID<xcvd7-7Er-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203942
On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 08:57:18 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Fri, Jan 04, 2019 at 02:47:52AM +0000, Matthew Crews wrote:
> > My guess? /home is on the same partition as /, which is a common setup
> > for most end users. Running lsblk is one way to tell if this is the case.
> 
> >From one of Stephen's earlier emails:
> 
> root@AbNormal:/home/comp# df -hl
> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> udev            3.9G     0  3.9G   0% /dev
> tmpfs           789M   18M  772M   3% /run
> /dev/sda1        23G   23G     0 100% /
> tmpfs           3.9G   18M  3.9G   1% /dev/shm
> tmpfs           5.0M  8.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
> tmpfs           3.9G     0  3.9G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> /dev/sda7       1.9G  6.5M  1.7G   1% /tmp
> /dev/sda5       9.2G  6.0G  2.8G  69% /var
> /dev/sda8       416G  103G  292G  27% /home
> /dev/sdc1        20G  301M   19G   2% /sdc1
> /dev/sdc2       439G  169G  270G  39% /sdc2
> /dev/sdb1       1.8T  288G  1.5T  17% /sdb1
> tmpfs           789M  4.0K  789M   1% /run/user/110
> tmpfs           789M   28K  789M   1% /run/user/1000
> 
> i.e. /home is already on a separate partition.
> 
> Several people have now suggested saving space in a bits of the
> filesystem that Stephen has on dedicated partitions, so this is not
> helpful.
> 
> This partitioning scheme seems really odd and unwieldy. So much
> wasted space on partitions that will never need anything like what
> they have been assigned. This seems like a great example of how not
> to partition a system - anyone thinking of using this many
> partitions really should consider LVM in future.
> 
> Anyway, Stephen, you need to focus on finding useless things in / and
> either removing them or moving them elsewhere. If it's just data
> then it looks like somewhere under /home would be a good choice as
> it has 292G available.
> 
> Ask before deleting anything you don't fully understand.

1. First assess what the space on / is allocated to.

   du -hs /lib/
   du -hs /etc/
   du -hs /usr/
   du -hs /usr/bin/
   du -hs /usr/local/ 

   etc, etc.

2. Then go through

   dpkg -l | less

   line by line, asking "do I really need that?". I'd not bother with
   looking at the library packages. Tedious? Yes, like tidying the boot
   of a car.

3. Purge what is not wanted ("do I really need ten kernel packages?)
   with apt and occasionally use 'apt --purge autoremove', keeping an
   eye on 'df -hl'.

-- 
Brian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203958

FromReco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net>
Date2019-01-04 13:00 +0100
Message-ID<xcwiR-8gk-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203951
	Hi.

On Fri, Jan 04, 2019 at 10:42:57AM +0000, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 08:57:18 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 04, 2019 at 02:47:52AM +0000, Matthew Crews wrote:
> > > My guess? /home is on the same partition as /, which is a common setup
> > > for most end users. Running lsblk is one way to tell if this is the case.
> > 
> > >From one of Stephen's earlier emails:
> > 
> > root@AbNormal:/home/comp# df -hl
> > Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> > udev            3.9G     0  3.9G   0% /dev
> > tmpfs           789M   18M  772M   3% /run
> > /dev/sda1        23G   23G     0 100% /
> > tmpfs           3.9G   18M  3.9G   1% /dev/shm
> > tmpfs           5.0M  8.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
> > tmpfs           3.9G     0  3.9G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> > /dev/sda7       1.9G  6.5M  1.7G   1% /tmp
> > /dev/sda5       9.2G  6.0G  2.8G  69% /var
> > /dev/sda8       416G  103G  292G  27% /home
> > /dev/sdc1        20G  301M   19G   2% /sdc1
> > /dev/sdc2       439G  169G  270G  39% /sdc2
> > /dev/sdb1       1.8T  288G  1.5T  17% /sdb1
> > tmpfs           789M  4.0K  789M   1% /run/user/110
> > tmpfs           789M   28K  789M   1% /run/user/1000
> > 
> > i.e. /home is already on a separate partition.
> > 
> > Several people have now suggested saving space in a bits of the
> > filesystem that Stephen has on dedicated partitions, so this is not
> > helpful.
> > 
> > This partitioning scheme seems really odd and unwieldy. So much
> > wasted space on partitions that will never need anything like what
> > they have been assigned. This seems like a great example of how not
> > to partition a system - anyone thinking of using this many
> > partitions really should consider LVM in future.
> > 
> > Anyway, Stephen, you need to focus on finding useless things in / and
> > either removing them or moving them elsewhere. If it's just data
> > then it looks like somewhere under /home would be a good choice as
> > it has 292G available.
> > 
> > Ask before deleting anything you don't fully understand.
> 
> 1. First assess what the space on / is allocated to.
> 
>    du -hs /lib/
>    du -hs /etc/
>    du -hs /usr/
>    du -hs /usr/bin/
>    du -hs /usr/local/ 

du -xh / | sort -h

Why bother typing several commands if you can type one?

Reco

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203971

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2019-01-04 14:30 +0100
Message-ID<xcxHX-MG-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203951
On Fri, Jan 04, 2019 at 10:42:57AM +0000, Brian wrote:
> 2. Then go through
> 
>    dpkg -l | less
> 
>    line by line, asking "do I really need that?". I'd not bother with
>    looking at the library packages. Tedious? Yes, like tidying the boot
>    of a car.

There are some tools that will show you the packages sorted by size.
I wrote one in perl a couple decades ago:

https://wooledge.org/~greg/ds

There are other, fancier ones, but I still like mine.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203889

Fromsongbird <songbird@anthive.com>
Date2019-01-03 20:00 +0100
Message-ID<xcgnL-75U-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203870
Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> I am running Debian Stretch  and have just encountered a problem during 
> a routine apt-get dist-upgrade.
>
> Specifically, it failed with the following error messages.
>
> E: libc-bin: subprocess installed post-installation script returned 
> error exit status 1
>
> Please advise.


  are you out of space on that device or out of inodes?


  have you tried to reinstall libc-bin?


  # apt-get install libc --reinstall


  songbird

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203893

From"Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net>
Date2019-01-03 20:40 +0100
Message-ID<xch0u-7xH-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203889

On 01/03/2019 01:27 PM, songbird wrote:
> apt-get install libc --reinstall

root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt-get install libc --reinstall
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package libc

so far as I know, I am not out of space.

-- 
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
Consultant
www.molecular-modeling.net
(614)312-7528 (c)
Skype: smolnar1

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203898

FromDavid Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Date2019-01-03 21:00 +0100
Message-ID<xchjP-7Ev-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203893
On Thu 03 Jan 2019 at 14:38:09 (-0500), Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> On 01/03/2019 01:27 PM, songbird wrote:
> > apt-get install libc --reinstall
> 
> root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt-get install libc --reinstall
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> E: Unable to locate package libc

libc is not a package. libc-bin is.

> so far as I know, I am not out of space.

Yes, but we don't. Type "df" without the quotes.

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203900

FromGreg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org>
Date2019-01-03 21:10 +0100
Message-ID<xchtx-7Xa-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203898
On Thu, Jan 03, 2019 at 01:58:10PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> Yes, but we don't. Type "df" without the quotes.

Hell, even WITH the quotes it'll still work!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#203979

FromMichael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Date2019-01-04 16:00 +0100
Message-ID<xcz74-1vc-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#203893
On Thu, Jan 03, 2019 at 02:38:09PM -0500, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
>On 01/03/2019 01:27 PM, songbird wrote:
>>apt-get install libc --reinstall
>
>root@AbNormal:/home/comp# apt-get install libc --reinstall
>Reading package lists... Done
>Building dependency tree
>Reading state information... Done
>E: Unable to locate package libc
>
>so far as I know, I am not out of space.

You previously wrote:

root@AbNormal:/home/comp# df -hl
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1        23G   23G     0 100% /

Note that there is 0 available space...

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]


Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user


csiph-web