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Groups > linux.debian.user > #203792 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100 |
| Last post | 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 96 — 21 participants |
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Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 15:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 17:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-02 21:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-03 01:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 22:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-01-02 18:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-02 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-01-03 12:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-01-04 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gary Dale <garyndp@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 05:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-03 16:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server steef <debian.linux@home.nl> - 2019-01-03 16:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 17:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-03 20:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 22:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 23:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 04:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 09:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 12:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 21:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 21:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:40 +0100
Re: bad printing results (was: Why choose Debian on server) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-04 23:20 +0100
Re: bad printing results (was: Why choose Debian on server) Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-04-03 16:10 +0200
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 10:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 12:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 14:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 13:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 15:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-05 20:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 01:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 13:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 14:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 16:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 17:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 17:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 19:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-10 11:10 +0100
Re: long page screenshots (was: Why choose Debian on server) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-07 01:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 01:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 19:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-08 01:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-09 20:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-09 21:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-16 00:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 18:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-10 21:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 02:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-07 15:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 19:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-08 14:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-04 16:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 19:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server francis picabia <fpicabia@gmail.com> - 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 16:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xccWR-5dy-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203792 |
On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 11:51:25AM +0100, Alessandro Baggi wrote: > > Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than centos and > other server distro? > I actually started with Debian on my laptop. As a college student I was assigned a project that had to run on the school Linux cluster (RedHat 6.2, if I recall correctly). I installed RedHat on my laptop since I wanted something closer to that environment for my development work. It was a real pain. The "Red Hat way" seemed so convoluted. A friend who worked tech support in the CS department at school handed me a Debian install CD for Woody, which had just been released. Back in those days Debian's installer was notoriously difficult to use, so I did not manage to complete the installation. I asked my friend for help with the install and once I overcame that obstacle, I was all set. The first thing I noticed was that the "Debian way" seemed so much more sensible to me compared to the "Red Hat way". After that, I decided to set up Debian on a spare PC in the house and use it as a firewall/web server/mail server/etc. I have been trying to push Debian everywhere I go since. Now, before you go and think that I am biased, I will say that I am actually biased :-) I certified as a RHCE some years ago and I can honestly say that only highlighted to me how much more comfortable Debian feels in everyday use both on the desktop and on the server. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | steef <debian.linux@home.nl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 16:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcdpT-5na-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203871 |
having allmost the same history: i agree completely roberto steef On 03-01-19 16:12, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 11:51:25AM +0100, Alessandro Baggi wrote: >> >> Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than centos and >> other server distro? >> > I actually started with Debian on my laptop. As a college student I was > assigned a project that had to run on the school Linux cluster (RedHat > 6.2, if I recall correctly). I installed RedHat on my laptop since I > wanted something closer to that environment for my development work. It > was a real pain. The "Red Hat way" seemed so convoluted. > > A friend who worked tech support in the CS department at school handed > me a Debian install CD for Woody, which had just been released. Back in > those days Debian's installer was notoriously difficult to use, so I did > not manage to complete the installation. I asked my friend for help > with the install and once I overcame that obstacle, I was all set. The > first thing I noticed was that the "Debian way" seemed so much more > sensible to me compared to the "Red Hat way". > > After that, I decided to set up Debian on a spare PC in the house and > use it as a firewall/web server/mail server/etc. I have been trying to > push Debian everywhere I go since. > > Now, before you go and think that I am biased, I will say that I am > actually biased :-) > > I certified as a RHCE some years ago and I can honestly say that only > highlighted to me how much more comfortable Debian feels in everyday use > both on the desktop and on the server. > > Regards, > > -Roberto >
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 17:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xce2C-5Pg-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203872 |
steef wrote: > having allmost the same history: i agree completely roberto +1
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 20:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcgQO-7uy-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203872 |
On Thursday 03 January 2019 10:24:41 steef wrote: > having allmost the same history: i agree completely roberto > > steef > > On 03-01-19 16:12, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 11:51:25AM +0100, Alessandro Baggi wrote: > >> Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than > >> centos and other server distro? > > > > I actually started with Debian on my laptop. As a college student I > > was assigned a project that had to run on the school Linux cluster > > (RedHat 6.2, if I recall correctly). I installed RedHat on my > > laptop since I wanted something closer to that environment for my > > development work. It was a real pain. The "Red Hat way" seemed so > > convoluted. > > > > A friend who worked tech support in the CS department at school > > handed me a Debian install CD for Woody, which had just been > > released. Back in those days Debian's installer was notoriously > > difficult to use, so I did not manage to complete the installation. > > I asked my friend for help with the install and once I overcame that > > obstacle, I was all set. The first thing I noticed was that the > > "Debian way" seemed so much more sensible to me compared to the "Red > > Hat way". > > > > After that, I decided to set up Debian on a spare PC in the house > > and use it as a firewall/web server/mail server/etc. I have been > > trying to push Debian everywhere I go since. > > > > Now, before you go and think that I am biased, I will say that I am > > actually biased :-) > > > > I certified as a RHCE some years ago and I can honestly say that > > only highlighted to me how much more comfortable Debian feels in > > everyday use both on the desktop and on the server. > > > > Regards, > > > > -Roberto I have a friend who uses centos on everything, includeing all the machines in the ditches at the tv station where I was the chief engineer for the last 18 years of my working life. I introduced red hat 5.0 on my own office machine which I built from parts in 1998 or so. He borrowed my floppies and built a test machine a month later, and took a class at the uni a few months later, and today has 2 machines on his desk so he can keep up with both. Today, the news and weather depts all run on windows using programs from associated press, but everything that runs the tech dept on the ground floor and in the control room where 4 channels of tv are run from, is running on centos servers he built, servers that can record as high as 6 streams of hi-def video, while simultaneously playing 4 streams. He's built 2 of those, most of the editing gear too. All running centos. I went to fedora when it came out but got tired of being treated as an expendable lab rat, tried mandrake and pclos, even Mepis for a few months, them ubuntu starting with 6.04 because linuxcnc had migrated to it, but when they migrated to debian so did I, nearly a decade ago. Support is generally great, and generally it Just works. They've only done one thing I disagree with, and that is the requirement for the first operator to login at the machines own console after a reboot before the x-server is started. Working on one of my machines, updating it and getting it ready for the next days job, its a pain in the ass to have to get dressed for winter weather, walk up the hill to the building that machine is in, and login just to get the x-server running so I can come back to the house and write gcode that machine will run tomorrow from a comfy chair, even exercising that code to see and correct mistakes without motor power on the machine that box is running. Everything here is connected to the internet by way of several switches on this side of dd-wrt making the net connection. In the 15 years I've had this setup, only one person has come thru it to get into this machine, is that same friend and I had to give him on the phone, the usernames and passwords. Not another attacker has managed that and the logs on the router show there are still thousands an hour trying. So my stuff has good isolation, yet every one of them has access to the repo's or can go browsing the net. Such a change, in not starting the x=server at reboot, ready for all callers with the ssh or sshfs credentials is not security here, its paranoia on the part of the developers at debian, probaby developed from past experience with windblows hooked directly to a modem. If the developers want real security, get your network thru dd-wrt, but don't burden us users who already have security, with your paranoia. Its being very inconvenient to have your paranoia forced on us the users. Other than that beef, debian just plain works, what more could we need? I'll probably follow the linuxcnc folks if they switch distros to base it on. But I am comfy with debian. And there you have it. Debian rocks, while centos looks way too much like winblows. My friend has at least 75 icons for this and that on his basic screen. Ugly. But call me biased if you want. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 21:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xchDc-80o-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203892 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > but > don't burden us users who already have security, with your paranoia. Its > being very inconvenient to have your paranoia forced on us the users. > +1 > Other than that beef, debian just plain works, what more could we need? +1
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 22:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xciSE-dN-59@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203901 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:02 PM Ivan Ivanov <qmastery16@gmail.com> wrote: > "Debian just plain works" - that's until someone discovers a yet > another one 0-day SystemD vuln and your server is Pwned. > I am telling it to you as a true Russian hacker, mwahahahaha! > Cheers, > Ivan Ivanov, > hacking SystemD while you sleep ;) > > Dear Ivan, no one said something about systemd, because the topic was discussed and closed on the list. Not sure about Gene, but I use good old sysv init and for Gods sake, no one thinks of running systemd on a firewall (I hope) As for the useful program, as you are a hacker, you would be able to build a debian package and install it on your machines easily, so I wonder if it is word the record to ring those bells so loud. regards
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 23:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcjvj-GO-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203916 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:42 PM Ivan Ivanov <qmastery16@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, the topic title is "Why choose Debian on server" and I thought > of it as a perfect opportunity to compare Debian with another very > similar OS, Devuan. + To be honest, it is not the removal of a package > that worried me (of course almost anyone could do > wget/configure/make/make install), > I do debuild it works for code written in 2001-2002 > but that Debian has started taking political decisions over technical > (someone didn't like the name of a package (weboob) which has been a > part of Debian for 8 years ---> reeemove!), > and for a technical project this is a really bad sign. > > Don't know the story - if you have links Definitely political correctness/madness has gone too far in recent years. I doubt it will end well. Historically you can compare with the middle ages - the landlord=company, the church=political correctness and so on. Fortunately you have a choice and I wonder why you post to Debian User. > Best regards and have a happy holidays, > > Same to you and please stop top posting regards
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 04:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcnSi-38B-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203916 |
On Thursday 03 January 2019 16:12:00 deloptes wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:02 PM Ivan Ivanov <qmastery16@gmail.com> wrote: > > "Debian just plain works" - that's until someone discovers a yet > > another one 0-day SystemD vuln and your server is Pwned. > > I am telling it to you as a true Russian hacker, mwahahahaha! > > Cheers, > > Ivan Ivanov, > > hacking SystemD while you sleep ;) > > Dear Ivan, no one said something about systemd, because the topic was > discussed and closed on the list. > Not sure about Gene, but I use good old sysv init and for Gods sake, > no one thinks of running systemd on a firewall (I hope) > Just one of the reasons I have 5 boxes here running wheezy yet, one running jessie. But its an armhf, an r-pi 3b TBE, and it is also behind dd-wrt. Perhaps I should watch the dd-wrt logs to see if Ivan has come calling but no one answered the doorbell? > As for the useful program, as you are a hacker, you would be able to > build a debian package and install it on your machines easily, so I > wonder if it is word the record to ring those bells so loud. > > regards Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 09:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xctbj-6sr-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203935 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > Just one of the reasons I have 5 boxes here running wheezy yet, one > running jessie. But its an armhf, an r-pi 3b TBE, and it is also behind > dd-wrt. Perhaps I should watch the dd-wrt logs to see if Ivan has come > calling but no one answered the doorbell? :) I bought 2006 or 2007 two industrial PCs (fanless). On is for testing and one for production. I also was not able to upgrade from wheezy for couple of years, because there was no kernel to work out of the box with the chipset and CPU. Few years ago I took my time after office work to dig into it. I set up NFS boot/root, so that I can easily test and found the problem. I could compile 4.x kernel. After it was clear what is the magicall combination of features/configuration it was easy to keep up with upgrades. The setup was transferred to the CF card of the PC and is happily serving as a FW and VPN. Regarding the systemd it is installed as dependency, but not running ... Anyway these boards are not booting with systemd, but thanks God there are the sysv packages that make it easy to setup, so as far as we have choice I am happy with debian. regards
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 12:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcvwu-80i-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203940 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 03:34:31 deloptes wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > Just one of the reasons I have 5 boxes here running wheezy yet, one > > running jessie. But its an armhf, an r-pi 3b TBE, and it is also > > behind dd-wrt. Perhaps I should watch the dd-wrt logs to see if > > Ivan has come calling but no one answered the doorbell? > > > :) I bought 2006 or 2007 two industrial PCs (fanless). On is for > : testing and > > one for production. I also was not able to upgrade from wheezy for > couple of years, because there was no kernel to work out of the box > with the chipset and CPU. Few years ago I took my time after office > work to dig into it. I set up NFS boot/root, so that I can easily test > and found the problem. I could compile 4.x kernel. After it was clear > what is the magicall combination of features/configuration it was easy > to keep up with upgrades. The setup was transferred to the CF card of > the PC and is happily serving as a FW and VPN. > > Regarding the systemd it is installed as dependency, but not running > ... Anyway these boards are not booting with systemd, but thanks God > there are the sysv packages that make it easy to setup, so as far as > we have choice I am happy with debian. I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. And installer that actually works would be nice as a make install doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, from the linux-rt lists announcements do not seem to have that recipe in the makefiles. I've tried several different kernels built for realtime from elsewhere, and they all have a common problem to a lessor or greater degree, they throw away mouse and keyboard events from their own consoles. Remote logins via ssh work well. This problem varies in its severity with a reboot, do it enough times and it will eventually work well, and the uptime is good till the next power drop. Other than that, its driving a mesa 7i90HD interface card, which is controlling an 11x54 Sheldon lathe quite nicely. writing 32 bit packets at 42 megabaud, and reading the responses at 25 megabaud using an rpspi.ko driver a prof from Sweden wrote. But its pickity about its arms, so it checks for an rpi-3b when its loaded, and exits if its not an r-pi-3b. The srcs for that driver are gpl, and part of the LinuxCNC src packages any one can download from linuxcnc.org. The spi and the radio on the pi are the 2 signals I'm aware of that bypass this usb-2 pinhole. So on a pi, the spi, built of 4 pins of the gpio, is more than quick enough to do the realtime job well as the fpga card handles all the stuff needed for control with a reasonably steady 1 kilohertz servo loop. The fpga card handles the 50 megahertz stuff, needed to be able to drive a stepper motor well. The rock64 is many times faster because its i/o doesn't have to fight for bandwidth to get thru its internal usb-2 hub, so the i/o is much more robust, and has 4 Gigs of memory, but the support sucks dead toads thru soda straws, so I've made zero progress in a years time in transplanting LinuxCNC to it. Their only interest is in doing multimedia servers with it, and that doesn't need the sort of realtime LinuxCNC needs. If you've some links to such installers running on the pi or on the rock64, I'd be delighted to check them out. > regards To you too deloptes. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 19:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcCHE-3Ir-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203953 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for the > life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the pi, its > boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also have a pair > of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install a new kernel on > the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. And installer that > actually works would be nice as a make install doesn't seem to exist in > the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, from the linux-rt lists > announcements do not seem to have that recipe in the makefiles. There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied whatever it needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from NFS server. This made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet you can as well Fore example see "The Boot" here https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-process-and-the-partition-table
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 20:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcCRj-3LF-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204004 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for > > the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the > > pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also > > have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install > > a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. > > And installer that actually works would be nice as a make install > > doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, > > from the linux-rt lists announcements do not seem to have that > > recipe in the makefiles. > > There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied whatever it > needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from NFS server. This > made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet you can as well > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-pr >ocess-and-the-partition-table Can I trade the pickity nfs link in on an sshfs version? I use that here as its quite bulletproof. The login without the checksum files might be a hassle though. I'll certainly look that link over, thank you. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcDu2-4dP-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204009 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > Can I trade the pickity nfs link in on an sshfs version? I use that here > as its quite bulletproof. The login without the checksum files might be > a hassle though. I'll certainly look that link over, thank you. I don't know about sshfs - not heard that you can mount root over sshfs. if on NFS root it speeds up testing RPI a lot. After you get the magic combination working good, move the setup to the SD card if needed. As for the kernel I build with cross-compiling toolchain and used qemu to the nfs share. The RPI2B was really slow. I look now at the notes and it feels I see them for the first time ... it was just 4y ago. I am very interested in the RT issues you discuss, but mostly because I know that linux is not RT and couldn't have time to investigate, however it is one problem for the industry/machinery. regards
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcET7-5cY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204013 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 14:31:10 deloptes wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > Can I trade the pickity nfs link in on an sshfs version? I use that > > here as its quite bulletproof. The login without the checksum files > > might be a hassle though. I'll certainly look that link over, thank > > you. > > I don't know about sshfs - not heard that you can mount root over > sshfs. if on NFS root it speeds up testing RPI a lot. After you get > the magic combination working good, move the setup to the SD card if > needed. No, or at least I've not done it, if I have something that needs to go in a root user controlled area, I copy it to my /home/me partition on the target machine, then ssh in as me, and sudo to get the rights needed to put the file where it needs to go. So thats not something readily amenable to scripting. That would be handier than bottled beer at times, but I can also understand the security problems that would expose if it blindly allowed the copy. Its been years since I had an NFS setup, seems it was always on the missing list whenever I needed it the worst. Within its perms limits, sshfs Just Works(TM). > As for the kernel I build with cross-compiling toolchain and used qemu > to the nfs share. The RPI2B was really slow. So is the 3b, since the SSD I have attached so I have room enough to play, must also be accessed thru that internal and slow usb-2 port. I build those kernels on the SSD, not on the u-sd using up all those write cycles. On the rock64, similar SSD plugged into the usb-3 port, which due to a silicon bug, has been resticted to usb-2 speeds, but its about an hour on the rock64 to build the same but arm64 flavored kernel on it. I can live with that if it actually made it usable. Gawd I miss grub on these teeny power mizerly things. > > I look now at the notes and it feels I see them for the first time ... > it was just 4y ago. At my age, 84, its a lot quicker than that. Some vitamin b1 seems to help me pay attention though. > I am very interested in the RT issues you discuss, but mostly because > I know that linux is not RT and couldn't have time to investigate, > however it is one problem for the industry/machinery. And becoming a bigger problem by each kernel release. Just the bigger stack image a context switch involves takes the 64 bit stuff into the very close to unusable state. Even the hit of enabling pae on the 32 bit stuff is a quite noticeable hit on the rt performance. And it doesn't make a lot of sense, with 2 gigs of ram in one of these machines, it rarely gets into swap. Put another 2 gigs in it, and before you can say uptime, its into swap by 3-5 hundred megs. Pure nonsense to this old fart. Sigh, but they won't let me anywhere near the rope that sounds the whistle. > regards Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcFcu-5jF-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204034 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > And becoming a bigger problem by each kernel release. Just the bigger > stack image a context switch involves takes the 64 bit stuff into the > very close to unusable state. Even the hit of enabling pae on the 32 bit > stuff is a quite noticeable hit on the rt performance. And it doesn't > make a lot of sense, with 2 gigs of ram in one of these machines, it > rarely gets into swap. Put another 2 gigs in it, and before you can say > uptime, its into swap by 3-5 hundred megs. Pure nonsense to this old > fart. Sigh, but they won't let me anywhere near the rope that sounds the > whistle. Why would it swap, because of the RT using memory that can not be freed up? Don't know how much RAM cnc requires but 2GB is a lot.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcFPb-5LN-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204040 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 16:27:44 deloptes wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > And becoming a bigger problem by each kernel release. Just the > > bigger stack image a context switch involves takes the 64 bit stuff > > into the very close to unusable state. Even the hit of enabling pae > > on the 32 bit stuff is a quite noticeable hit on the rt performance. > > And it doesn't make a lot of sense, with 2 gigs of ram in one of > > these machines, it rarely gets into swap. Put another 2 gigs in it, > > and before you can say uptime, its into swap by 3-5 hundred megs. > > Pure nonsense to this old fart. Sigh, but they won't let me anywhere > > near the rope that sounds the whistle. > > Why would it swap, because of the RT using memory that can not be > freed up? Don't know how much RAM cnc requires but 2GB is a lot. More than enough for LCNC, deloptes. Its running on the pi with only a gig of ram. In a weeks uptime, it has not touched a 10Gb swap. Hasn't been particularly busy but LCNC has been running, with the machine power disabled all this time. I have that one rigged to shut off all machine power when motion is disabled. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 21:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcEgr-4JU-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204004 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > Gene Heskett wrote: > > I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for > > the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the > > pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also > > have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install > > a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. > > And installer that actually works would be nice as a make install > > doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, > > from the linux-rt lists announcements do not seem to have that > > recipe in the makefiles. > > There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied whatever it > needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from NFS server. This > made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet you can as well > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-pr >ocess-and-the-partition-table One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! What the he!! good is it if I can't take a print out to the machine and checkmark the steps as I go. Way to go stackexchange, not!. But I did anyway. :) But its also NOOBS centric and I think I'm booting via a different system with the images i'm using. Yeah my df looks very little like the report here, but it doesn't say. Then at whats line 112 in my printout, the poster is using a widows box for a buffer. Then he talks about the partitions on /dev/mmcblk0p1 which fdisk shows almost nothing: Disk /dev/mmcblk0p1: 41 MiB, 42991616 bytes, 83968 sectors Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: dos Disk identifier: 0x00000000 No partitions, so much of the rest isn't applicable. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 21:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcEq6-4Nk-31@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204028 |
On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 15:27:11 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But for > > > the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually do the > > > pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done as I also > > > have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have seen apt install > > > a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice to its u-sd card. > > > And installer that actually works would be nice as a make install > > > doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt kernel sources I have pulled, > > > from the linux-rt lists announcements do not seem to have that > > > recipe in the makefiles. > > > > There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied whatever it > > needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from NFS server. This > > made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet you can as well > > > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boot-pr > >ocess-and-the-partition-table > > One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! What the he!! good is Of course it is printable. Whatever you are doing is unknown. -- Brian.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcF2N-5gm-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204030 |
On Friday 04 January 2019 15:38:32 Brian wrote: > On Fri 04 Jan 2019 at 15:27:11 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Friday 04 January 2019 13:46:28 deloptes wrote: > > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > I've built 3 rt kernels on the pi, takes it about 4 hours. But > > > > for the life of me, I can't find an installer that will actually > > > > do the pi, its boot is a separate mess. I'm sure it can be done > > > > as I also have a pair of rock64's running armbian, and I have > > > > seen apt install a new kernel on the one I'm playing with, twice > > > > to its u-sd card. And installer that actually works would be > > > > nice as a make install doesn't seem to exist in the linux-rt > > > > kernel sources I have pulled, from the linux-rt lists > > > > announcements do not seem to have that recipe in the makefiles. > > > > > > There is a good how to I used for setting up RPI. I copied > > > whatever it needed to an old SD card and configured to boot from > > > NFS server. This made testing much easier. If I could do it I bet > > > you can as well > > > > > > Fore example see "The Boot" here > > > https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/39959/raspbian-boo > > >t-pr ocess-and-the-partition-table > > > > One HUGE problem with that page. Its not printable! What the he!! > > good is > > Of course it is printable. Whatever you are doing is unknown. My copy of FF only prints 1 page, which is the top 3" of the site's front page, never getting down to any of the text past the headline. And it works on other sites. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 22:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcFma-5mO-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #204037 |
Gene Heskett wrote: > My copy of FF only prints 1 page, which is the top 3" of the site's > front page, never getting down to any of the text past the headline. > > And it works on other sites. Same here
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