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Groups > linux.debian.user > #203792 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100 |
| Last post | 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 96 — 21 participants |
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Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 15:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 17:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-02 21:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-03 01:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-01-02 22:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 23:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2019-01-02 18:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-02 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-01-03 12:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-01-04 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 04:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gary Dale <garyndp@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 05:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2019-01-03 16:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server steef <debian.linux@home.nl> - 2019-01-03 16:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 17:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-03 20:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 21:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 22:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 23:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 04:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 09:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 12:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 20:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 21:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 21:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:40 +0100
Re: bad printing results (was: Why choose Debian on server) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-04 23:20 +0100
Re: bad printing results (was: Why choose Debian on server) Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-04-03 16:10 +0200
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 10:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 12:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 14:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 13:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-05 15:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-05 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-05 20:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 01:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 13:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 14:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 16:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 17:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 17:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 19:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 19:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 20:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 21:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-10 11:10 +0100
Re: long page screenshots (was: Why choose Debian on server) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2019-01-07 01:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 01:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 19:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-08 01:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-09 20:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-09 21:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-16 00:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 18:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-01-06 19:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-10 21:40 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-07 02:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-07 15:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 19:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-06 16:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-08 14:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2019-01-04 22:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 23:10 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-01-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 22:20 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 22:50 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-01-04 16:00 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-01-04 19:30 +0100
Re: Why choose Debian on server francis picabia <fpicabia@gmail.com> - 2019-01-11 16:50 +0100
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| From | Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 12:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Why choose Debian on server |
| Message-ID | <xbMpH-5CI-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
Hi list, I'm new to this list and I'm choosing the right distribution for server needs. I hope that I'm not OT and don't want start a flame. I'm evaluating the possibility to switch on debian so I hope you will give your experiences about this topic. At the moment I'm using CentOS 7 on server and workstation but very old software, add third repos for get some software, use unmaintained software where patchs are released by dev distro team, big changes between a current release and next release, big corporation piloted distro, waiting that rh release a security patches and then recompiled on centos, problem on new hardware, unable to install new software from source due to old libs get me bored, and frustated in the last year. I like flexibility and I noticed that centos chains my knowledge. Today seems that RH Family is the standard and rh is more supported by software vendors. Considering 10 years of support, Selinux working out of the box, stability, enteprise class and free distro..user choose Centos with the perception that things work better because all is "followed" by a corporation. With this assumption users feel more secure and unfailing. This is not necessarely true. I think that is the sysadmin that make things safer, secure and unfailing. Sure that a stable and reliable OS take his part but when big blue take this game I'm not so sure about centos future. What if someone will choose to drop centos project? Maybe this is premature but from this "Why not choose a stable and community piloted distro where user needs are first purpose?" I used Debian in the past on several server for a big company without any problems but now are several years that I use centos on server and workstation and today I lost my debian knowledge about stability on server usage. Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than centos and other server distro? Thanks in advance. Alessandro.
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 15:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbPdU-7ny-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203792 |
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 11:51:25 +0100 Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> wrote: > > Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than > centos and other server distro? Possibly the main selling point is that Debian has always been continuously upgradeable from one version to the next. Building a server from scratch can be a painful process, especially after you have spent years tweaking and customising the previous one. The more rarely this has to be done, the better. The problem of old software is one you will never get away from, but on the other hand, old software is generally reliable. A server is a computer on which you rarely need the latest software, an old DNS or DHCP server will generally do the same job as the very latest version. Poor support for new hardware is a general problem for Linux, as hardware is always designed for Windows, and drivers often have to be reverse engineered for Linux. Red Hat is in a somewhat better position than Debian, but no manufacturer is going to optimise their hardware for RH, either. Less of a problem with servers, where the hardware is likely to be robust and old-fashioned. Who needs the latest version of Bluetooth or wi-fi on a server? -- Joe
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 15:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbPGW-7MM-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203803 |
Joe wrote: > Poor support for new hardware is a general problem for Linux, as > hardware is always designed for Windows, and drivers often have to be > reverse engineered for Linux. Red Hat is in a somewhat better position > than Debian, but no manufacturer is going to optimise their hardware > for RH, either. Less of a problem with servers, where the hardware is > likely to be robust and old-fashioned. Who needs the latest version of > Bluetooth or wi-fi on a server? some of us do not use linux only on the "server". The advantage is that you can run a good linux on a older desktop and get most of the hardware. I.e. I bought a Fujitsu ESPRIMO C700 for 180,- added some RAM for another 60,- to have 8GB and it is soooo good.
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 17:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbRSq-BP-25@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203804 |
On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 15:20:16 +0100 deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: > Joe wrote: > > > Poor support for new hardware is a general problem for Linux, as > > hardware is always designed for Windows, and drivers often have to > > be reverse engineered for Linux. Red Hat is in a somewhat better > > position than Debian, but no manufacturer is going to optimise > > their hardware for RH, either. Less of a problem with servers, > > where the hardware is likely to be robust and old-fashioned. Who > > needs the latest version of Bluetooth or wi-fi on a server? > > some of us do not use linux only on the "server". The advantage is > that you can run a good linux on a older desktop and get most of the > hardware. I.e. I bought a Fujitsu ESPRIMO C700 for 180,- added some > RAM for another 60,- to have 8GB and it is soooo good. Indeed. I'm currently working on getting Debian onto a small Acer laptop, which is not trivial. I've run it on a netbook for several years. But laptops and servers are solutions to different problems, and don't generally need the same hardware and software. I wouldn't run Gimp on a server, nor a RADIUS server on a laptop. -- Joe
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 19:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbTKy-1LU-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203818 |
Joe wrote: > Indeed. I'm currently working on getting Debian onto a small Acer > laptop, which is not trivial. I've run it on a netbook for several > years. But laptops and servers are solutions to different problems, and > don't generally need the same hardware and software. I wouldn't run > Gimp on a server, nor a RADIUS server on a laptop. before start using the Fujitsu PC I used the same on a Dell E5440, I just took the hard drive and put it into the Fujitsu PC. It started without a problem. The server is just a more powerful PC and the PC from today is the server from 10y ago. I don't see a problem running Gimp on a server or RADIUS on a laptop ... well, depends on the laptop and radius configuration.
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| From | Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 21:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbV9D-2KX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203822 |
On 1/2/19 1:41 PM, deloptes wrote: > Joe wrote: > >> Indeed. I'm currently working on getting Debian onto a small Acer >> laptop, which is not trivial. I've run it on a netbook for several >> years. But laptops and servers are solutions to different problems, and >> don't generally need the same hardware and software. I wouldn't run >> Gimp on a server, nor a RADIUS server on a laptop. > before start using the Fujitsu PC I used the same on a Dell E5440, I just > took the hard drive and put it into the Fujitsu PC. It started without a > problem. > > The server is just a more powerful PC and the PC from today is the server > from 10y ago. Not really true. Servers tend to be configured very differently than desktop machines: Multiple network ports, support for storage area networks, remote management, redundancy, different disks, not to mention headless. One tends to run more specialized stuff, as well - hypervisors, storage management, failover stuff, back-end stuff (databases, mail servers, list servers). One tends to run different drivers, and tune things differently. > > I don't see a problem running Gimp on a server or RADIUS on a laptop ... > well, depends on the laptop and radius configuration. > I'm not sure how well GIMP would run on across a network, particularly if one wants to use a pen. It's really designed to run on a machine with a head. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 23:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbX1M-3VI-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203828 |
Miles Fidelman wrote: > I'm not sure how well GIMP would run on across a network, particularly > if one wants to use a pen. It's really designed to run on a machine > with a head. so you are saying you can not ssh -X to the server and run your gimp if that is what you want? I bet you can and I bet you can configure the server the way you like - it is just another PC ;-) regardless hypervisors and underlaying stuff. It is another question if it makes sense. regards
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| From | Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 01:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbZdf-5bh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203831 |
On 1/2/19 5:16 PM, deloptes wrote: > Miles Fidelman wrote: > >> I'm not sure how well GIMP would run on across a network, particularly >> if one wants to use a pen. It's really designed to run on a machine >> with a head. > so you are saying you can not ssh -X to the server and run your gimp if that > is what you want? I bet you can and I bet you can configure the server the > way you like - it is just another PC ;-) regardless hypervisors and > underlaying stuff. > No, but: X11 is one of those things that one doesn't always install on servers. If one wants GPU acceleration, one commonly does not install GPUs on servers. Behavior over a network might be a bit problematic. I expect network jitter might interfere with things like fine drawing with a wacom tablet. Now, if one works in a graphics shop, with a serious rendering cluster in the same room – then maybe running GIMP on the server might make some sense. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 22:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbVW1-3hL-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203822 |
On Wed, 02 Jan 2019 19:41:41 +0100 deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote: > Joe wrote: > > > Indeed. I'm currently working on getting Debian onto a small Acer > > laptop, which is not trivial. I've run it on a netbook for several > > years. But laptops and servers are solutions to different problems, > > and don't generally need the same hardware and software. I wouldn't > > run Gimp on a server, nor a RADIUS server on a laptop. > > before start using the Fujitsu PC I used the same on a Dell E5440, I > just took the hard drive and put it into the Fujitsu PC. It started > without a problem. > > The server is just a more powerful PC and the PC from today is the > server from 10y ago. Can be, if you are using multiple VMs, or terminal server software or the like, or running a popular public-facing Internet server. A general-purpose private server usually doesn't need to have the power that a graphical workstation needs. Only Windows needs enormous resources in a server. My current server is a cute little HP Microserver, not especially fast and with 2GB RAM. Windows SBS2008 needed 8GB just to wake up, and that was aimed at *small* businesses. > > I don't see a problem running Gimp on a server or RADIUS on a > laptop ... well, depends on the laptop and radius configuration. > > I didn't say there would be problems, just that there would not normally be a need. The overlap between my workstation's software and that of my server is fairly small, largely because the server doesn't have a GUI, and most of my workstation software is graphical. That's another point in favour of Debian for servers, there is no assumption that a GUI will be used. I believe RH uses graphical admin software, as of course does Windows. -- Joe
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 23:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbXbs-3Zf-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203829 |
Joe wrote: > I didn't say there would be problems, just that there would not > normally be a need. The overlap between my workstation's software and > that of my server is fairly small, largely because the server doesn't > have a GUI, and most of my workstation software is graphical. > > That's another point in favour of Debian for servers, there is no > assumption that a GUI will be used. I believe RH uses graphical admin > software, as of course does Windows. well I use to start vnc and run there this and that, that would require GUI or whatever. I usually need it to run VMWare that I can not run headless, but Gimp would fit in if needed. Unfortunately I am not heavy Gimp user. To keep the gui footprint low I use icewm. I don't see a problem with it. regards
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 18:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbSbM-XU-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203792 |
On 1/2/19 2:51 AM, Alessandro Baggi wrote: > Hi list, > I'm new to this list and I'm choosing the right distribution for server > needs. I hope that I'm not OT and don't want start a flame. I'm > evaluating the possibility to switch on debian so I hope you will give > your experiences about this topic. > > At the moment I'm using CentOS 7 on server and workstation but very old > software, add third repos for get some software, use unmaintained > software where patchs are released by dev distro team, big changes > between a current release and next release, big corporation piloted > distro, waiting that rh release a security patches and then recompiled > on centos, problem on new hardware, unable to install new software from > source due to old libs get me bored, and frustated in the last year. I > like flexibility and I noticed that centos chains my knowledge. > > Today seems that RH Family is the standard and rh is more supported by > software vendors. Considering 10 years of support, Selinux working out > of the box, stability, enteprise class and free distro..user choose > Centos with the perception that things work better because all is > "followed" by a corporation. With this assumption users feel more secure > and unfailing. > > This is not necessarely true. I think that is the sysadmin that make > things safer, secure and unfailing. Sure that a stable and reliable OS > take his part but when big blue take this game I'm not so sure about > centos future. What if someone will choose to drop centos project? Maybe > this is premature but from this "Why not choose a stable and community > piloted distro where user needs are first purpose?" > > I used Debian in the past on several server for a big company without > any problems but now are several years that I use centos on server and > workstation and today I lost my debian knowledge about stability on > server usage. > > Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than centos > and other server distro? What is your environment? How many servers? What software on each server? How many users/ how much load on each server? Future needs? David
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| From | Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-02 21:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xbUQh-2p1-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203821 |
> On 1/2/19 2:51 AM, Alessandro Baggi wrote: >> Hi list, >> I'm new to this list and I'm choosing the right distribution for >> server needs. I hope that I'm not OT and don't want start a flame. >> I'm evaluating the possibility to switch on debian so I hope you will >> give your experiences about this topic. >> >> At the moment I'm using CentOS 7 on server and workstation but very >> old software, add third repos for get some software, use unmaintained >> software where patchs are released by dev distro team, big changes >> between a current release and next release, big corporation piloted >> distro, waiting that rh release a security patches and then >> recompiled on centos, problem on new hardware, unable to install new >> software from source due to old libs get me bored, and frustated in >> the last year. I like flexibility and I noticed that centos chains my >> knowledge. >> >> Today seems that RH Family is the standard and rh is more supported >> by software vendors. Considering 10 years of support, Selinux working >> out of the box, stability, enteprise class and free distro..user >> choose Centos with the perception that things work better because all >> is "followed" by a corporation. With this assumption users feel more >> secure and unfailing. >> Traditionally, Red Hat (CentOS) and Debian aimed primarily at servers - dating back to a time when server were the only place one ran Linux (if you were running Unix on a desktop, you probably had a Sun Workstation). Graphical desktops came in with newer distros. Suse also falls in this category. These days, Red Hat has strong support, precisely because it's a commercial, supported product, and the primary distro used by large government & corporate users (outside of IBM and Oracle customers, who have their own distros). If you're running Linux on a production server, it's probably Red Hat. CentOS is the free version. Debian has been popular with those of us who don't like Red Hat's way of doing things. Today, as I face some upgrade issues of my own, I'm really not so sure. All of the debacle around systemd, and some of the recent politics, has made me far less comfortable that Debian will remain a stable platform - and I'm seriously considering migrating to either Gentoo or a BSD platform. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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| From | Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xc7DP-20E-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203827 |
Il 02/01/19 20:56, Miles Fidelman ha scritto: > Today, as I face some upgrade issues of my own, I'm really not so sure. > All of the debacle around systemd, and some of the recent politics, has > made me far less comfortable that Debian will remain a stable platform - > and I'm seriously considering migrating to either Gentoo or a BSD platform. What recent politics?
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 12:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xc8Tg-2FA-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203827 |
Hi. On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 02:56:41PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: > some of the recent politics, has made me far less comfortable that Debian will remain a stable platform - and I'm seriously considering migrating to either Gentoo or a BSD platform. LOL, you've made my day, sir. It's hardly wise to consider FreeBSD as a shelter from 'political issues' - [1], [2], and that's the only alive BSD these days. Recp [1] https://daniel-lange.com/archives/127-Saving-miscjive.html [2] https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
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| From | Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 19:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcfrI-6xn-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203861 |
On 1/3/19 5:55 AM, Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Wed, Jan 02, 2019 at 02:56:41PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: >> some of the recent politics, has made me far less comfortable that Debian will remain a stable platform - and I'm seriously considering migrating to either Gentoo or a BSD platform. > LOL, you've made my day, sir. It's hardly wise to consider FreeBSD as a > shelter from 'political issues' - [1], [2], and that's the only alive > BSD these days. > Except for NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonflyBSD, and, of course, OSX. As to the political issues - looks like a reasonable, and detailed policy AND PROCEDURES to me - not like the kangaroo court in the Debian world. And then there was all the bullshit about how systemd was handled - including resignations of core developers over it. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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| From | Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 19:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcBVf-3cp-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203888 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu 03/Jan/2019 18:53:14 +0100 Miles Fidelman wrote: > [...] > And then there was all the bullshit about how systemd was handled - > including resignations of core developers over it. Given the current cooperation between Devuan and Debian maintainers on init-diversity, I'd say that issue is fully resolved, and I'm reassured that a distribution like the one I like is going to be available for the foreseeable future. Would you say that messy "bullshit" marked the turn point where the aim shifted from servers to laptops? In that case, I can understand there wasn't a rule for it... Best Ale --
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-04 21:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xcDNo-4kw-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203997 |
Alessandro Vesely wrote: > Given the current cooperation between Devuan and Debian maintainers on > init-diversity, I'd say that issue is fully resolved, and I'm reassured > that a distribution like the one I like is going to be available for the > foreseeable future. > > Would you say that messy "bullshit" marked the turn point where the aim > shifted from servers to laptops? In that case, I can understand there > wasn't a rule for it... I don't know the real truth behind the decision, but this is the conclusion I make. The sad consequence is that resources are spent and communities are divided. The consequence of this is that output power is lost. The good thing is that may be more engineers and hobby developers can work on that in the future. We'll see what it will bring to us. For now the above mentioned diversity is the only diversity that makes sense ;-) regards
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| From | Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 10:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xc7DP-20E-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203821 |
Il 02/01/19 18:03, David Christensen ha scritto: > On 1/2/19 2:51 AM, Alessandro Baggi wrote: >> Hi list, >> I'm new to this list and I'm choosing the right distribution for >> server needs. I hope that I'm not OT and don't want start a flame. I'm >> evaluating the possibility to switch on debian so I hope you will give >> your experiences about this topic. >> >> At the moment I'm using CentOS 7 on server and workstation but very >> old software, add third repos for get some software, use unmaintained >> software where patchs are released by dev distro team, big changes >> between a current release and next release, big corporation piloted >> distro, waiting that rh release a security patches and then recompiled >> on centos, problem on new hardware, unable to install new software >> from source due to old libs get me bored, and frustated in the last >> year. I like flexibility and I noticed that centos chains my knowledge. >> >> Today seems that RH Family is the standard and rh is more supported by >> software vendors. Considering 10 years of support, Selinux working out >> of the box, stability, enteprise class and free distro..user choose >> Centos with the perception that things work better because all is >> "followed" by a corporation. With this assumption users feel more >> secure and unfailing. >> >> This is not necessarely true. I think that is the sysadmin that make >> things safer, secure and unfailing. Sure that a stable and reliable OS >> take his part but when big blue take this game I'm not so sure about >> centos future. What if someone will choose to drop centos project? >> Maybe this is premature but from this "Why not choose a stable and >> community piloted distro where user needs are first purpose?" >> >> I used Debian in the past on several server for a big company without >> any problems but now are several years that I use centos on server and >> workstation and today I lost my debian knowledge about stability on >> server usage. >> >> Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than >> centos and other server distro? > > What is your environment? How many servers? What software on each > server? How many users/ how much load on each server? Future needs? > > > David > > . > Hi David, My usage today is on small/medium office, cloud vps server and sometimes on baremetal. Thank you
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| From | kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 04:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xc1oJ-6pj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203792 |
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:51 AM Alessandro Baggi <alessandro.baggi@gmail.com> wrote: > > Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than centos > and other server distro? Please see this faq https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference 1.5 What is the difference between Debian GNU/Linux and other Linux distributions? Why should I choose Debian over some other distribution? -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://raju.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Blog
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| From | Gary Dale <garyndp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-01-03 05:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xc37b-7zY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #203792 |
On 2019-01-02 5:51 a.m., Alessandro Baggi wrote: > Hi list, > I'm new to this list and I'm choosing the right distribution for > server needs. I hope that I'm not OT and don't want start a flame. I'm > evaluating the possibility to switch on debian so I hope you will give > your experiences about this topic. > > At the moment I'm using CentOS 7 on server and workstation but very > old software, add third repos for get some software, use unmaintained > software where patchs are released by dev distro team, big changes > between a current release and next release, big corporation piloted > distro, waiting that rh release a security patches and then recompiled > on centos, problem on new hardware, unable to install new software > from source due to old libs get me bored, and frustated in the last > year. I like flexibility and I noticed that centos chains my knowledge. > > Today seems that RH Family is the standard and rh is more supported by > software vendors. Considering 10 years of support, Selinux working out > of the box, stability, enteprise class and free distro..user choose > Centos with the perception that things work better because all is > "followed" by a corporation. With this assumption users feel more > secure and unfailing. > > This is not necessarely true. I think that is the sysadmin that make > things safer, secure and unfailing. Sure that a stable and reliable OS > take his part but when big blue take this game I'm not so sure about > centos future. What if someone will choose to drop centos project? > Maybe this is premature but from this "Why not choose a stable and > community piloted distro where user needs are first purpose?" > > I used Debian in the past on several server for a big company without > any problems but now are several years that I use centos on server and > workstation and today I lost my debian knowledge about stability on > server usage. > > Why you choose debian on server? Where for you it is better than > centos and other server distro? > > Thanks in advance. > Alessandro. > Because Debian doesn't come from a company, it can't go out of business or be taken over. And because Debian has lots of spinoffs, including distros that are in the commercial server market (e.g. Ubuntu), you can bet that everything runs on it and it runs on everything. Debian is also very stable and very secure. While Red Hat may have a segment of the corporate market, I'll bet that there are more Debian servers than Red Hat. If you think Red Hat has the market cornered, you aren't looking at the full market. Then there are things like the Raspberry Pi, which are used in a lot of specialized server-type tasks, that mainly use Debian. They can do a lot of things that are useful in a corporate environment that you wouldn't want to put on a real server. I also use Debian on my desktop (I have for decades) so there is a good knowledge crossover. I don't need to learn and use two different kinds of systems.
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