Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #208695 > unrolled thread

Salsa vs Github

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  Salsa vs Github Paul Sutton <zleap@disroot.org> - 2019-05-16 18:00 +0200
    Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-16 18:40 +0200
      please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Mark Allums <mark@allums.email> - 2019-05-17 09:10 +0200
        Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-17 09:40 +0200
          Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-17 10:40 +0200
            Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Paul Sutton <zleap@disroot.org> - 2019-05-17 11:00 +0200
          Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Mark Allums <mark@allums.email> - 2019-05-17 10:40 +0200
            Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2019-05-18 05:50 +0200
              Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-05-18 09:40 +0200
              Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Mark Allums <mark@allums.email> - 2019-05-18 09:40 +0200
                Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-18 10:30 +0200
                  Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa  vs Github Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-05-18 13:00 +0200
                    Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-18 15:20 +0200
                      Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa  vs Github Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2019-05-18 15:40 +0200
                        Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-18 15:50 +0200
                    Off topic: non zero error codes Erik Josefsson <erik.hjalmar.josefsson@gmail.com> - 2019-05-19 07:30 +0200
                      Re: Off topic: non zero error codes Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2019-05-19 14:00 +0200
                      Re: Off topic: non zero error codes <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-19 14:10 +0200
                  Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-18 16:40 +0200
                Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2019-05-19 03:10 +0200
          Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-17 18:00 +0200
            Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa  vs Github arne <sp113438@telfort.nl> - 2019-05-18 01:40 +0200
          Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-05-17 18:00 +0200
            Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-17 18:30 +0200
            Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> - 2019-05-18 10:50 +0200
              Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-18 11:00 +0200
                Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-18 11:30 +0200
          Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Aidan Gauland <aidalgol@fastmail.net> - 2019-05-18 00:30 +0200
            Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-18 01:10 +0200
              Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Aidan Gauland <aidalgol@fastmail.net> - 2019-05-18 07:40 +0200
                Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-05-18 08:10 +0200
                  Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> - 2019-05-18 10:40 +0200
                  Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa  vs Github Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-18 10:40 +0200
          Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs  Github Rob van der Putten <rob@sput.nl> - 2019-05-18 11:20 +0200
    Re: Salsa vs Github Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2019-05-17 11:30 +0200
      Re: Salsa vs Github Paul Sutton <zleap@disroot.org> - 2019-05-17 11:50 +0200
        Re: Salsa vs Github john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-05-17 12:00 +0200
          Re: Salsa vs Github Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2019-05-17 14:20 +0200

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#208744 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

>Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the 
>intellectual property of the software?

No.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208762 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

On Fri, 17 May 2019 17:57:55 +0200
Dominik George <natureshadow@debian.org> wrote:

> >Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the 
> >intellectual property of the software?  
> 
> No.
> 

No, not now

But when, matter of time I guess.

Been there, done that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208745 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

On Friday, May 17, 2019 03:28:51 AM Dominik George wrote:
> >> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
> >
> >Please explain, in detail, why.
> 
> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you,
> here's why:
> 
> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
> 
> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
> 
> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm

I might try to read these later, but don't have time at the moment, but I do 
have a question:

Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the 
intellectual property of the software?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208747 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:52:02AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:

[...]

> Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the 
> intellectual property of the software?

Absolutely not. *If* there's a strategy behind that (there might be, to
the tune of $7.5B), it has to be more subtle.

I've seen quite a few people confusing Git and Github (yes, software
developers). That kind of thing.

Cheers
-- t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208779 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

On Fri 17/May/2019 17:52:02 +0200 rhkramer wrote:

> On Friday, May 17, 2019 03:28:51 AM Dominik George wrote:
>> >> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>> >
>> >Please explain, in detail, why.
>> 
>> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you,
>> here's why:
>> 
>> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>> 
>> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
>> 
>> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm


TLDR;  Don't *depend* on GitHub (bite-and-run usage doesn't seem to hurt).


> I might try to read these later, but don't have time at the moment, but I do 
> have a question:
> 
> Does putting software on GitHub give them any kind of claim on the 
> intellectual property of the software?


Yes, it does.  Despite what others have said, there is a beneficial patent
exhaustion effect.   If software with patented algorithms is distributed by the
patent owner, for example by Microsoft via GitHub, the patent is exhausted.
https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/patent_exhaustion/


Best
Ale

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208780 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

>Yes, it does.  Despite what others have said, there is a beneficial
>patent
>exhaustion effect.   If software with patented algorithms is
>distributed by the
>patent owner, for example by Microsoft via GitHub, the patent is
>exhausted.
>https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/patent_exhaustion/

Yeah, ok, no idea. Such a stupid thing as software patents does not exist where I live.

-nik

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208782 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 10:51:40AM +0200, Dominik George wrote:
> >Yes, it does.  Despite what others have said, there is a beneficial
> >patent
> >exhaustion effect.   If software with patented algorithms is
> >distributed by the
> >patent owner, for example by Microsoft via GitHub, the patent is
> >exhausted.
> >https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/patent_exhaustion/
> 
> Yeah, ok, no idea. Such a stupid thing as software patents does not exist where I live.

You would think so, and the European Patent Convention (EPC) sounds
pretty nice, but the fact that the European Patent Office is betting
heavily on pretty scantily clothed software patents [1] is somewhat
unsettling, to say the least.

Yes, I'm happy that we've come so far (and I've been standing in front
of the EU parliament chanting with a bunch of other crazies a couple
of years ago), but we haven't "won" yet.

Cheers

[1] Just say "on a computer" :-)
-- t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208760 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

On 17/05/19 7:28 PM, Dominik George wrote:
>>> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>> Please explain, in detail, why.
> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you, here's why:
>
> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
>
> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
>
> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm
Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
one is new to me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208761 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

>Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
>one is new to me.

I did. Please read my mails in this thread.

-nik

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208767 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

On 18/05/19 11:08 AM, Dominik George wrote:
>> Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
>> one is new to me.
> I did. Please read my mails in this thread.
I have, and I just re-read the articles you gave, and I still do not see
anything about discrimination by age, or against any group of people,
only the usual issues with hosting free software on/with non-free
services (which reason enough to avoid GitHub).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208768 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 18/05/19 5:17 PM, Aidan Gauland wrote:
> On 18/05/19 11:08 AM, Dominik George wrote:
>>> Can you give sources for your claim about their discrimination?  That
>>> one is new to me.
>> I did. Please read my mails in this thread.
> I have, and I just re-read the articles you gave, and I still do not see
> anything about discrimination by age, or against any group of people,
> only the usual issues with hosting free software on/with non-free
> services (which reason enough to avoid GitHub).
> 

I'm not going to read them again, but IIRC one of them referred to the
GitHub ToC, which contained a bit about restricting accounts to those
over 13 years of age, and claiming this was due to US law (but not
specifying which law).

Richard

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208777 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Hi,

>Why do these restrictions exist?  The reason most social media services
>use an
>age limit of 13 or over is in part because of a law in the USA. The
>COPPA law
>or Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act states that any
>organisations or
>people operating online services (including social media services) are
>not
>allowed to collect the personal information of anyone under the age of
>13
> without parental permission.

Thanks for the explanations, although all of them are known.

You (and others elaborating on unrelated legal explanations) might have missed that I spent weeks of discussion with GitHub's legal department on that, and they explicitly stated the one reason why they have to adhere to COPPA (see previous mail).

-nik

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208778 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

On 2019-05-18, Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> I'm not going to read them again, but IIRC one of them referred to the
> GitHub ToC, which contained a bit about restricting accounts to those
> over 13 years of age, and claiming this was due to US law (but not
> specifying which law).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-coppa-frequently-asked-questions

 The primary goal of COPPA is to place parents in control over what information
 is collected from their young children online.  The Rule was designed to
 protect children under age 13 while accounting for the dynamic nature of the
 Internet.  The Rule applies to operators of commercial websites and online
 services (including mobile apps) directed to children under 13 that collect,
 use, or disclose personal information from children, and operators of general
 audience websites or online services with actual knowledge that they are
 collecting, using, or disclosing personal information from children under 13.
 The Rule also applies to websites or online services that have actual knowledge
 that they are collecting personal information directly from users of another
 website or online service directed to children. 

https://www.childnet.com/blog/age-restrictions-on-social-media-services

 Nearly all other social media services require users to be at least 13 years of
 age to access and use their services. This includes Facebook, Snapchat,
 Twitter, Instagram, Musical.ly and Skype.

 Whilst there is no age restriction for watching videos on YouTube, users need
 to be 13 or older to have their own YouTube account (enabling them to subscribe
 to other channels, like videos, post comments, share their own content and flag
 inappropriate content).

 Why do these restrictions exist?  The reason most social media services use an
 age limit of 13 or over is in part because of a law in the USA. The COPPA law
 or Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act states that any organisations or
 people operating online services (including social media services) are not
 allowed to collect the personal information of anyone under the age of 13
 without parental permission.


> Richard
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208781 — Re: please do *never* use GitHub for free software, was Re: Salsa vs Github

Hi there


On 17/05/2019 09:28, Dominik George wrote:

>>> please do*never*  use GitHub for free software
>>
>> Please explain, in detail, why.
> 
> If discrimination against parts of the community is not enough for you, here's why:
> 
> https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html

An overview;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_code_hosting_facilities

> https://www.adamhyde.net/another-good-reason-not-to-use-github/
> 
> https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm


Regards,
Rob

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208718

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:51:22PM +0100, Paul Sutton wrote:
>is it possible to
>1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?

No. But, you can create a corresponding project in one based on the same
git repository. I.e., you clone the git repository from one project,
create the second project on the other platform, and push the git repo's
references (branches and tags) to the new project. Neither project will
be "aware" of the copy on the other platform.

Those who have answered "Yes, they are both git repositories" are
ignoring that the issues, pull requests and relationship-tracking
between a project and a fork within the same platform are not stored in
the git repository.

>2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?

No.

>I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
>are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on salsa.

If you create a project on GitHub which is effectively a "mirror" of
your project on Salsa, you (or scripts/services you set up to do so on
your behalf) will need to make sure to update the GitHub project with
changes to the Salsa one, and vice-versa, and also monitor issues and
pull requests raised on GitHub.

It's a trade-off between this work (a burden on you) and the burden of
potential contributors having to sign up for a Salsa account. But if you
don't want to put off contributors, then you can choose to shoulder that
burden :)

-- 
👱🏻	Jonathan Dowland
✎	    jon@dow.land
🔗	https://jmtd.net

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208720

On 17/05/2019 10:23, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:51:22PM +0100, Paul Sutton wrote:
>> is it possible to
>> 1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?
> 
> No. But, you can create a corresponding project in one based on the same
> git repository. I.e., you clone the git repository from one project,
> create the second project on the other platform, and push the git repo's
> references (branches and tags) to the new project. Neither project will
> be "aware" of the copy on the other platform.
> 
> Those who have answered "Yes, they are both git repositories" are
> ignoring that the issues, pull requests and relationship-tracking
> between a project and a fork within the same platform are not stored in
> the git repository.
> 
>> 2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?
> 
> No.
> 
>> I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
>> are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on
>> salsa.
> 
> If you create a project on GitHub which is effectively a "mirror" of
> your project on Salsa, you (or scripts/services you set up to do so on
> your behalf) will need to make sure to update the GitHub project with
> changes to the Salsa one, and vice-versa, and also monitor issues and
> pull requests raised on GitHub.
> 
> It's a trade-off between this work (a burden on you) and the burden of
> potential contributors having to sign up for a Salsa account. But if you
> don't want to put off contributors, then you can choose to shoulder that
> burden :)
> 
Cool thanks,  most of my github projects are personal anyway. It is
probably just quicker to, as you said,  create and clone a new
repository, add the files to it,then push it up to salsa.

I won't be doing anything complex like tracking issues between the two
platforms just yet as I am still learning how to do the basics.

Paul

-- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208721

On 5/17/2019 11:47 AM, Paul Sutton wrote:
>
>
> On 17/05/2019 10:23, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
>> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 04:51:22PM +0100, Paul Sutton wrote:
>>> is it possible to
>>> 1. Fork a project between github -> salsa or between salsa -> github ?
>>
>> No. But, you can create a corresponding project in one based on the same
>> git repository. I.e., you clone the git repository from one project,
>> create the second project on the other platform, and push the git repo's
>> references (branches and tags) to the new project. Neither project will
>> be "aware" of the copy on the other platform.
>>
>> Those who have answered "Yes, they are both git repositories" are
>> ignoring that the issues, pull requests and relationship-tracking
>> between a project and a fork within the same platform are not stored in
>> the git repository.
>>
>>> 2 As above but issue pull / merge requests between the two?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> I am asking this, as if someone has github, and can do the above they
>>> are able to perhaps help, without having to sign up to an account on
>>> salsa.
>>
>> If you create a project on GitHub which is effectively a "mirror" of
>> your project on Salsa, you (or scripts/services you set up to do so on
>> your behalf) will need to make sure to update the GitHub project with
>> changes to the Salsa one, and vice-versa, and also monitor issues and
>> pull requests raised on GitHub.
>>
>> It's a trade-off between this work (a burden on you) and the burden of
>> potential contributors having to sign up for a Salsa account. But if you
>> don't want to put off contributors, then you can choose to shoulder that
>> burden :)
>>
> Cool thanks,  most of my github projects are personal anyway. It is
> probably just quicker to, as you said,  create and clone a new
> repository, add the files to it,then push it up to salsa.
>
> I won't be doing anything complex like tracking issues between the two
> platforms just yet as I am still learning how to do the basics.
>

I could be missing something here but why not simply 'mirroring' the
github repo to salsa?

--
John Doe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#208728

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

* On 2019 17 May 04:53 -0500, john doe wrote:
 
> I could be missing something here but why not simply 'mirroring' the
> github repo to salsa?

That is possible but, as far as I know, it is a manual process.  I do
the same with a project hosted on both SourceForge and GitHub.  For any
updates I manually push to each repository to keep them in sync.

Features of each site are not reflected on the other.  These are things
like issue trackers, pull requests generated through the respective
sites, or forks on the respective sites.  These things are all
peripheral to the source in the Git repository but are important
metadata which the Git repository will not contain.

When branches are created that are intended to be long lived, they must
be pushed to each site individually.  Sometimes mistakes happen so one
almost needs a checklist to be sure are the steps get done each time.

HTH,

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: http://www.n0nb.us  GPG key: D55A8819  GitHub: N0NB

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web