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Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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  Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation  onto a USB connected drive? Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> - 2019-05-02 14:50 +0200
    Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation  onto a USB connected drive? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-02 15:10 +0200
    Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive? Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-02 15:20 +0200
      Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-02 15:50 +0200
      Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-02 16:10 +0200
        Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive? Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-02 17:20 +0200
          Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-02 19:40 +0200
            Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive? Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-02 20:30 +0200
              Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-02 21:20 +0200
      Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-02 16:50 +0200
        Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-02 17:10 +0200
          Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing   installation onto a USB connected drive? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-02 20:10 +0200
    Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing  installation onto a USB connected drive? An Liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> - 2019-05-02 15:20 +0200
    Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-05-02 17:10 +0200

#208032 — Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

 something like:

 1) download the iso's

 2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb

 where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to

 then you would plug the disk on your computer and take it from there

 For that I used to burn live DVD but there should be a better way

 lbrtchx

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#208033 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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Albretch Mueller wrote:
>  something like:
>
>  1) download the iso's
>
>  2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb
>
>  where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to

Something like this, perhaps?
  dd if=debian.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M 



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#208037 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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Quoting Albretch Mueller (2019-05-02 14:42:08)
>  something like:
> 
>  1) download the iso's
> 
>  2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb
> 
>  where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to
> 
>  then you would plug the disk on your computer and take it from there
> 
>  For that I used to burn live DVD but there should be a better way

Debian ISOs specifically are prepared to be used not only on optical 
drives but also booted from e.g. USB flash drives.

So "the better way" is to simply copy the image onto the device:

  sudo cp downloaded_image /dev/sdb


There is a cargo cult preaching the use of "dd" but that tool is like 
cutting trees with scissors: The wrong tool for the job!

There are some suggesting to avoid the need for sudo by messing with 
udev rules to grant non-root write access to removable devices.  When 
properly established that is indeed more safe, but setting it up can go 
wrong in just as bad and more complex ways to decipher than simply 
mistyping the device name and wiping your main system drive.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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#208040 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 03:12:46PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

[...]

> There is a cargo cult preaching the use of "dd" but that tool is like 
> cutting trees with scissors: The wrong tool for the job!

No cargo cult at all. Each tool has its advantages. The two I appreciate
in dd are:

 - status=progress -- indicates how far the copy is.
 - oflag=direct and siblings, which let you fine-tune when
   to flush out stuff (mitigating the long wait at the
   end where the system seems to be doing nothig)

There sure others. There are downsides to it, as well...

Cheers
-- t

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#208041 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

On Thu 02 May 2019 at 15:12:46 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Albretch Mueller (2019-05-02 14:42:08)
> >  something like:
> > 
> >  1) download the iso's
> > 
> >  2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb
> > 
> >  where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to
> > 
> >  then you would plug the disk on your computer and take it from there
> > 
> >  For that I used to burn live DVD but there should be a better way
> 
> Debian ISOs specifically are prepared to be used not only on optical 
> drives but also booted from e.g. USB flash drives.
> 
> So "the better way" is to simply copy the image onto the device:
> 
>   sudo cp downloaded_image /dev/sdb
 
I use cat downloaded_image > /dev/sdb

> There is a cargo cult preaching the use of "dd" but that tool is like 
> cutting trees with scissors: The wrong tool for the job!
> 
> There are some suggesting to avoid the need for sudo by messing with 
> udev rules to grant non-root write access to removable devices.  When 
> properly established that is indeed more safe, but setting it up can go 
> wrong in just as bad and more complex ways to decipher than simply 
> mistyping the device name and wiping your main system drive.

This is along the same lines as Message #34 at

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=751892

  > To random people reading this bug: please do not EVER do
  > this or it may subtly break other things and then get you
  > flamed when you will waste my time debugging that.

Although the issue is treated sympathetically towards the end of the
report, I don't believe I've ever seen an example of subtle breakage.

I agree with what is said in Message #23 at

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=788662

  > In any case, it seems unfortunate that users can no
  > longer write an image to a USB disk without using root.
  > Especially because that makes it easier to make a mistake
  > and overwrite the wrong disk. I've made ahabit of always
  > dd'ing as non-root, to make it somewhat less likely that
  > I'd overwrite a system disk.

Which is why I have a udev rule with

  SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", GROUP="floppy"

in it. I might stop doing that if its use was demonstrated to have an
adverse effect on other things I do.

-- 
Brian.

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#208045 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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Quoting Brian (2019-05-02 16:01:31)
> On Thu 02 May 2019 at 15:12:46 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Albretch Mueller (2019-05-02 14:42:08)
> > >  something like:
> > > 
> > >  1) download the iso's
> > > 
> > >  2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb
> > > 
> > >  where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to
> > > 
> > >  then you would plug the disk on your computer and take it from 
> > >  there
> > > 
> > >  For that I used to burn live DVD but there should be a better way
> > 
> > Debian ISOs specifically are prepared to be used not only on optical 
> > drives but also booted from e.g. USB flash drives.
> > 
> > So "the better way" is to simply copy the image onto the device:
> > 
> >   sudo cp downloaded_image /dev/sdb
>  
> I use cat downloaded_image > /dev/sdb

Is there some benefit to that over cp?

Reason I prefer cp is that it is less confusing esp. for newcomers, in 
that it works also with sudo.



> > There is a cargo cult preaching the use of "dd" but that tool is 
> > like cutting trees with scissors: The wrong tool for the job!
> > 
> > There are some suggesting to avoid the need for sudo by messing with 
> > udev rules to grant non-root write access to removable devices.  
> > When properly established that is indeed more safe, but setting it 
> > up can go wrong in just as bad and more complex ways to decipher 
> > than simply mistyping the device name and wiping your main system 
> > drive.
> 
> This is along the same lines as Message #34 at
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=751892
> 
>   > To random people reading this bug: please do not EVER do
>   > this or it may subtly break other things and then get you
>   > flamed when you will waste my time debugging that.
> 
> Although the issue is treated sympathetically towards the end of the 
> report, I don't believe I've ever seen an example of subtle breakage.
> 
> I agree with what is said in Message #23 at
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=788662
> 
>   > In any case, it seems unfortunate that users can no
>   > longer write an image to a USB disk without using root.
>   > Especially because that makes it easier to make a mistake
>   > and overwrite the wrong disk. I've made ahabit of always
>   > dd'ing as non-root, to make it somewhat less likely that
>   > I'd overwrite a system disk.
> 
> Which is why I have a udev rule with
> 
>   SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", GROUP="floppy"
> 
> in it. I might stop doing that if its use was demonstrated to have an
> adverse effect on other things I do.

Good for you that you have a hack that works.  Really!

Reason I discourage that approach more generally is not that I want to 
"flame" anyone (as in that bugreport you referenced aboe), but that I 
seek ways reasonable also for non-technical users: Your udev hack is 
more (not less) complicated for a non-technical user to do right 
compared to my one-liner sudo+cp command.  Your approach is sensible if 
doing _many_ such operations, but not when doing few, as a beginner.

At http://box.redpill.dk/ I currently use these initial steps:

[...]
 2) Connect microSD card to pc, and locate its device path:
    * On linux, try this command:
        lsblk --paths --nodeps
    * On macOS, try this command:
        ls /dev/rdisk?
    * Compare output of above command with and without card plugged in
      to not COMPLETELY OVERWRITE the wrong device below
 3) Make sure card is (connected but) not mounted:
    * On linux, check that lsblk lists no mountpoint entry
 4) Decompress and copy image onto card
    (adjust image name and device path as needed):
        gunzip core-lime2-1.0b22.img.gz
        sudo cp core-lime2-1.0b22.img PATH_TO_YOUR_SDCARD
[...]

That's not the method I use myself when testing those images over and 
over again, but the most sensible I have found so far for general use, 
also for those not fluent in shell pipes and udevadm queries and such...


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208048 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

On Thu 02 May 2019 at 17:09:26 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Brian (2019-05-02 16:01:31)
> >  
> > I use cat downloaded_image > /dev/sdb
> 
> Is there some benefit to that over cp?

None that I know of; it's just something I've used since isohybrids
came along.
 
> Reason I prefer cp is that it is less confusing esp. for newcomers, in 
> that it works also with sudo.

Point taken. I think the ">" can also cause problems and would have
no problem recommending cp instead of cat.


> > Which is why I have a udev rule with
> > 
> >   SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", GROUP="floppy"
> > 
> > in it. I might stop doing that if its use was demonstrated to have an
> > adverse effect on other things I do.
> 
> Good for you that you have a hack that works.  Really!

Labelling it a "hack" is not something I find sufficient to cause me
to abandon a technique that makes copying to a removable device safer.
After all, it was the norm on wheezy (and maybe before), so users had
some protection against writing to the incorrect device without being
aware the rule was there.

Don't get me wrong; I am not arguing for its return or that others
follow my lead.

> Reason I discourage that approach more generally is not that I want to 
> "flame" anyone (as in that bugreport you referenced aboe), but that I 
> seek ways reasonable also for non-technical users: Your udev hack is 
> more (not less) complicated for a non-technical user to do right 
> compared to my one-liner sudo+cp command.  Your approach is sensible if 
> doing _many_ such operations, but not when doing few, as a beginner.

I am unfamiliar with sudo but didn't think sudo+cp prevented my
accidentally wiping a system disk.

-- 
Brian.

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#208051 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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Quoting Brian (2019-05-02 19:35:07)
> On Thu 02 May 2019 at 17:09:26 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Brian (2019-05-02 16:01:31)
> > > Which is why I have a udev rule with
> > > 
> > >   SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", GROUP="floppy"
> > > 
> > > in it. I might stop doing that if its use was demonstrated to have 
> > > an adverse effect on other things I do.
> > 
> > Good for you that you have a hack that works.  Really!
> 
> Labelling it a "hack" is not something I find sufficient to cause me 
> to abandon a technique that makes copying to a removable device safer.

Sorry - I meant "hack" as a power user compliment.


> > Reason I discourage that approach more generally is not that I want 
> > to "flame" anyone (as in that bugreport you referenced aboe), but 
> > that I seek ways reasonable also for non-technical users: Your udev 
> > hack is more (not less) complicated for a non-technical user to do 
> > right compared to my one-liner sudo+cp command.  Your approach is 
> > sensible if doing _many_ such operations, but not when doing few, as 
> > a beginner.
> 
> I am unfamiliar with sudo but didn't think sudo+cp prevented my 
> accidentally wiping a system disk.

It doesn't.

You and I are both power user.  We use (sudo or) su, or log in as root.  
That is needed to tune our systems e.g. by adding a udev rule.

Last summer I was in Taiwan at Debconf, together with many other power 
users.  Imagine I had forgotten my laptop at home, went out and bought a 
cheap taiwanese laptop, and wanted to install Debian on it.  I would 
then go over to one of my power user friends with my new laptop and a 
USB stick.  I could then ask my friend to...

  * Reconfigure their system to include a udev rule 
    so that writing to USB flash disks did not require root,
    and then run cp as regular user (even a guest account!)

  * Run a cp command as root.

Which would be most sensible?

Which would be most sensible to ask a non-technical friend to do?

Yes, your approach works, and is one that I might use myself and might 
recommend to power users for their own pleasure.  But not something I 
would recommend to power user for a one-time need, not something I would 
recommend non-technical users themselves (how *I* might tune their 
systems if granted root access is a very different story).


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208052 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

On Thu 02 May 2019 at 20:21:39 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Brian (2019-05-02 19:35:07)
> > On Thu 02 May 2019 at 17:09:26 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > Quoting Brian (2019-05-02 16:01:31)
> > > > Which is why I have a udev rule with
> > > > 
> > > >   SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", GROUP="floppy"
> > > > 
> > > > in it. I might stop doing that if its use was demonstrated to have 
> > > > an adverse effect on other things I do.
> > > 
> > > Good for you that you have a hack that works.  Really!
> > 
> > Labelling it a "hack" is not something I find sufficient to cause me 
> > to abandon a technique that makes copying to a removable device safer.
> 
> Sorry - I meant "hack" as a power user compliment.

Me? A power user? I am not used to compliments on -user; they make
me feel uneasy. But thank you for any confidence you might have in
my abilities to drive Debian.

> > > Reason I discourage that approach more generally is not that I want 
> > > to "flame" anyone (as in that bugreport you referenced aboe), but 
> > > that I seek ways reasonable also for non-technical users: Your udev 
> > > hack is more (not less) complicated for a non-technical user to do 
> > > right compared to my one-liner sudo+cp command.  Your approach is 
> > > sensible if doing _many_ such operations, but not when doing few, as 
> > > a beginner.
> > 
> > I am unfamiliar with sudo but didn't think sudo+cp prevented my 
> > accidentally wiping a system disk.
> 
> It doesn't.
> 
> You and I are both power user.  We use (sudo or) su, or log in as root.  
> That is needed to tune our systems e.g. by adding a udev rule.
> 
> Last summer I was in Taiwan at Debconf, together with many other power 
> users.  Imagine I had forgotten my laptop at home, went out and bought a 
> cheap taiwanese laptop, and wanted to install Debian on it.  I would 
> then go over to one of my power user friends with my new laptop and a 
> USB stick.  I could then ask my friend to...
> 
>   * Reconfigure their system to include a udev rule 
>     so that writing to USB flash disks did not require root,
>     and then run cp as regular user (even a guest account!)
> 
>   * Run a cp command as root.
> 
> Which would be most sensible?

Ok, you have my arm up my back. I'd go for the second choice. It's
quicker and involves no disruption to the friend's system. The onus
would then be on me to be ultra-careful before pressing the ENTER
key. "Friend", I would say - "please check what I am doing".

> Which would be most sensible to ask a non-technical friend to do?
> 
> Yes, your approach works, and is one that I might use myself and might 
> recommend to power users for their own pleasure.  But not something I 
> would recommend to power user for a one-time need, not something I would 
> recommend non-technical users themselves (how *I* might tune their 
> systems if granted root access is a very different story).

As I said, I am not advocating my approach to anyone. And I get exactly
what you are saying about non-technical users. Double-checking is more
likely to be followed than any amount of "change your system". Again -
point taken.

-- 
Brian.

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#208042 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Albretch Mueller (2019-05-02 14:42:08)
>>  something like:
>>   
>>  1) download the iso's
>>   
>>  2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb
>>   
>>  where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to
>>   
>>  then you would plug the disk on your computer and take it from there
>>   
>>  For that I used to burn live DVD but there should be a better way
>
> Debian ISOs specifically are prepared to be used not only on optical=20
> drives but also booted from e.g. USB flash drives.
>
> So "the better way" is to simply copy the image onto the device:
>
>   sudo cp downloaded_image /dev/sdb

That's just going to put debian-whatever.iso on the drive ... perhaps
you meant cat?

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|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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#208043 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 02:30:30PM -0000, Dan Purgert wrote:

[...]

> >   sudo cp downloaded_image /dev/sdb
> 
> That's just going to put debian-whatever.iso on the drive ... perhaps
> you meant cat?

No. Actually cp and cat will do the same (assuming /dev/sdb is the
device file).

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#208049 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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<tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 02:30:30PM -0000, Dan Purgert wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> >   sudo cp downloaded_image /dev/sdb
>>
>> That's just going to put debian-whatever.iso on the drive ... perhaps
>> you meant cat?
>
> No. Actually cp and cat will do the same (assuming /dev/sdb is the
> device file).S

Nice, learned something new today.


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|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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#208038 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

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if you dont want to erase the existing contents of your USB stick （or you
even dont need a USB stick）

then

 grab vmlinuz and initrd from
http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/installer-amd64/current/images/hd-media/

then place  debian install iso of same version under root partition of disk
（not only work for usb ，but also the partition on sdX you would not destory
in next installation）

reboot with these too vmlinuz and initrd from GRUB （you should have it as
you mentioned existing workable system）


and you are all through，nothing special to iso boot





On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 14:42 Albretch Mueller <lbrtchx@gmail.com> wrote:

>  something like:
>
>  1) download the iso's
>
>  2) go: <some application> /dev/sdb
>
>  where "/dev/sdb" is the device a USB disk is linked to
>
>  then you would plug the disk on your computer and take it from there
>
>  For that I used to burn live DVD but there should be a better way
>
>  lbrtchx
>
> --
Liu An

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#208044 — Re: Is there a way to install Debian iso's from an existing installation onto a USB connected drive?

Hi,

i am trying to make sense of the title of this thread.

If it is about putting an existing individual Debian installation as
bootable ISO system onto an USB stick: Difficult, at best.


If it is about replacing the use of Debian Live on DVD by Debian Live
on USB stick, then the proposals of dd, cat, and cp will do with a
current Debian Live ISO image.
E.g. from
  https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

Important is that you use the base device, e.g. /dev/sdc, not a partition
device like e.g. /dev/sdc1.
Further be aware that all old content of the USB drive will become
nearly unaccessible if not overwritten. Your drive will get a new
partition table by copying the Live ISO. (Make sure you use the right
/dev/sd? as copy target. Not your system disk.)

See also
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
Verification of the written USB drive is done as with DVD. See
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#verify


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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