Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #207532 > unrolled thread

A call to drop gnome

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  A call to drop gnome Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-16 09:20 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 09:50 +0200
      Re: A call to drop gnome Gian Uberto Lauri <saint@eng.it> - 2019-04-16 12:40 +0200
        Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 13:10 +0200
          Re: A call to drop gnome Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-16 15:40 +0200
            Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 16:00 +0200
              Re: A call to drop gnome Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-16 16:20 +0200
              Re: A call to drop gnome Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2019-04-16 19:00 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 19:40 +0200
                  Re: A call to drop gnome Matthew Crews <mattcrews@mattcrews.com> - 2019-04-16 20:00 +0200
                    Re: A call to drop gnome Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@fsing.rootsland.net> - 2019-04-16 20:30 +0200
                      Re: A call to drop gnome Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-16 21:20 +0200
                    Re: A call to drop gnome as the default desktop Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 07:00 +0200
                      Re: A call to drop gnome as the default desktop Ansgar Burchardt <"Ansgar Burchardt"@43-1.org> - 2019-04-17 09:50 +0200
                        Re: A call to drop gnome as the default desktop Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-18 06:40 +0200
                    Re: A call to drop gnome Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-04-17 09:50 +0200
                  Re: A call to drop gnome Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> - 2019-04-16 20:00 +0200
                    Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 20:30 +0200
                      Re: A call to drop gnome Gian Uberto Lauri <saint@eng.it> - 2019-04-17 09:20 +0200
                        Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-17 10:10 +0200
                    Re: A call to drop gnome "Alexander V. Makartsev" <avbetev@gmail.com> - 2019-04-16 20:50 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-04-16 20:50 +0200
                  Re: A call to drop gnome Francisco M Neto <fmneto@fmneto.com.br> - 2019-04-17 02:20 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-16 21:00 +0200
            Re: A call to drop gnome Ansgar Burchardt <"Ansgar Burchardt"@43-1.org> - 2019-04-16 20:00 +0200
              Re: A call to drop gnome Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-16 21:20 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome Ansgar Burchardt <"Ansgar Burchardt"@43-1.org> - 2019-04-17 09:40 +0200
                  Re: A call to drop gnome Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-17 10:00 +0200
              Re: A call to drop gnome rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-04-17 21:20 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-18 05:50 +0200
            Re: A call to drop gnome songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2019-04-17 15:10 +0200
              Re: A call to drop gnome Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-04-19 05:00 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2019-04-19 05:50 +0200
                Re: A call to drop gnome Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2019-04-19 07:20 +0200
          Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 16:10 +0200
            Re: A call to drop gnome Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 06:20 +0200
              Re: A call to drop gnome Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-04-17 09:20 +0200
          Re: A call to drop gnome Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 06:00 +0200
        Re: A call to drop gnome Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 05:50 +0200
          Re: A call to drop gnome Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 22:50 +0200
      Re: A call to drop gnome Dekks Herton <dekkzz78@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 02:30 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-04-16 10:00 +0200
      Re: A call to drop gnome Gian Uberto Lauri <saint@eng.it> - 2019-04-16 12:50 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-04-16 10:10 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2019-04-16 13:40 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-16 16:50 +0200
      Re: A call to drop gnome Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-04-16 17:00 +0200
        Re: A call to drop gnome Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-16 18:50 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 01:40 +0200
      Re: A call to drop gnome Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 10:00 +0200
    Re: A call to drop gnome 황병희 <soyeomul@red-october.yw.doraji.xyz> - 2019-04-17 17:20 +0200
      Re: A call to drop gnome Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2019-04-17 18:10 +0200

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#207583

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 16.04.2019 22:54, Matthew Crews wrote:
> I will concede that as long as Nvidia drivers do not play nicely with
> Wayland (and they don't AFAIK), X will still be required. But I did just
> read that Plasma 5.16 landed Nvidia patches that let it work under
> Wayland with Nvidia, so maybe not that much longer in the future?
You could run Gnome with nvidia back in 2017 already. Run a console and
a browser with hardware acceleration support, but that was about it.
Unless Nvidia will make stable drivers with Wayland support and there
will be some kind of back compatibility layer implemented in Wayland, to
allow to run "legacy" software, I'll stay on X and on Stretch.
I agree with the fact that we must migrate to Wayland to test it and
provide feedback, but it needs to be a build house, just without
furniture, not a mere scaffolding that being build last 10 years.
>
> (and unfortunately, people will still buy and use Nvidia cards, and want
> support for them whether or not the drivers are FOSS).
There are no alternatives. Red cards, despite their flashy marketing,
still don't have drivers to fully support them and games with native
Linux ports don't support them officially.
Blue cards are simply out of the league.
> Fair enough. I personally think KDE or even XFCE should be the default
> DE for Debian, but thats just my opinion and the the topic of endless
> debate. We will be in circles debating what we think the default DE for
> Debian should be. As long as the Debian installer gives us a choice (and
> as long as a variety of Live images for each major DE are available), it
> doesn't really matter in the end.
>
> I do not think that Gnome should be removed from Debian as long as Gnome
> works fine. As far as I'm concerned, it does work fine. Perfect? No, but
> good enough IMO.
>
Gnome is not just a DE, so it surely won't go anywhere. There is too
much ecosystem that couldn't be just thrown away.
And every other DE (except maybe KDE) uses parts from Gnome.
As for Synaptic, if I really want something going on my system, I'll
backport it and throw it's deb package into special folder with the rest
of backported things I use.
But for now, I plan to stay on oldstable (stretch) for a couple of years
and watch how things will be developed from a distance.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207581

On 2019-04-16, Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> wrote:
>
> This all stems back to Synaptic being removed from Debian Buster right?
> Well, all someone needs to do is update Synaptic with proper Wayland
> support. But judging by the upstream development, it appears that
> Synaptic might be abandoned?

> https://launchpad.net/synaptic

https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2019/02/14/packagekit-is-dead-long-live-well-something-else/

Ditto PackageKit, according to the maintainer, it would appear.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207602

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 2019-04-16 at 18:48 +0000, Curt wrote:
> On 2019-04-16, Matthew Crews <mailinglists@mattcrews.com> wrote:
> > This all stems back to Synaptic being removed from Debian Buster
> > right?
> > Well, all someone needs to do is update Synaptic with proper Wayland
> > support. But judging by the upstream development, it appears that
> > Synaptic might be abandoned?
> > https://launchpad.net/synaptic
> 
> https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2019/02/14/packagekit-is-dead-long-live-well-something-else/
> 
> Ditto PackageKit, according to the maintainer, it would appear.

	Also, that's not the correct address for Synaptic's development
repo. The Debian page on it is embarrasingly outdated. It's hosted on
github now:

https://github.com/mvo5/synaptic
 
-- 
[]'s,

Francisco M Neto <fmneto@fmneto.com.br>

GPG: 4096R/D692FBF0

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207584

On Tuesday 16 April 2019 12:54:00 Matthew Crews wrote:

> On 4/16/19 6:54 AM, Reco wrote:
> >> I see Linus is drifting back to his older style, issuing the
> >> desktop people a whipping they are in need of over the weekend,
> >> saying 90% of why linux doesn't control the desktop is that there
> >> is not a standardized, one size fits all because it can do all
> >> things desktop.
> >
> > A link please, LKML will suffice. If Linus is back after that CoC
> > story in all his former glory - I need to see this.
>
> Old news. He posted two days ago about Linux Kernel 5.1-rc5:
>
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2019/4/14/265
>
None of those messages are related to what I read late last week.
>
> As far as Gnome on Wayland, X.org's days are numbered, and for good
> reason.
>
> The major DEs are all pushing for the move to Wayland, but they
> continue to support X because Wayland isn't fully ready. However it
> cannot be made ready unless people are actually using it in the wild,
> and submitting feedback.
>
> Additionally, every major Linux distro supports Wayland, provided
> their chosen DE supports Wayland. Some major ones even USE Wayland by
> default where possible. It will not be long before X is deprecated,
> and then fully removed.
>
> This all stems back to Synaptic being removed from Debian Buster
> right? Well, all someone needs to do is update Synaptic with proper
> Wayland support. But judging by the upstream development, it appears
> that Synaptic might be abandoned?
>
> https://launchpad.net/synaptic
>
> Well, it's maintained by an Ubuntu developer, and Ubuntu doesn't even
> ship Synaptic anymore.
>
> All the same, hardly a reason to drop Gnome.
>
> My 2¢
>
> -Matt


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207574

Gene Heskett writes:
> Where the heck in its confusing menu's can I find a tab supporting
> terminal so I can get something done? Go ahead, find it, my coffee needs
> to cool anyway..

You press the magic Super key, then type "Terminal" on the keyboard (or
at least the beginning), then press Enter.  GNOME feels pretty much
designed to not be used by a mouse alone ;-)

Ansgar

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207589

On Tuesday 16 April 2019 13:32:38 Ansgar Burchardt wrote:

> Gene Heskett writes:
> > Where the heck in its confusing menu's can I find a tab supporting
> > terminal so I can get something done? Go ahead, find it, my coffee
> > needs to cool anyway..
>
> You press the magic Super key, then type "Terminal" on the keyboard
> (or at least the beginning), then press Enter.  GNOME feels pretty
> much designed to not be used by a mouse alone ;-)
>
> Ansgar

And that magic Super key is?  And does it do tabs? 

I have 4 workspaces with terminals, each of which has 4 or 7 tabs 
available right now on this Wheezy box running TDE R14.x. Opening a 
separate new terminal on the same workspace like gnome does on stretch 
is a total non-starter for me. So one of the earlier things I did before 
I found synaptic was to be the orphan that starved to death, and brought 
my conversion to stretch to a screeching halt, was to convert it to TDE 
R14.x from gnome.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207624

Gene Heskett writes:
> On Tuesday 16 April 2019 13:32:38 Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
>> Gene Heskett writes:
>> > Where the heck in its confusing menu's can I find a tab supporting
>> > terminal so I can get something done? Go ahead, find it, my coffee
>> > needs to cool anyway..
>>
>> You press the magic Super key, then type "Terminal" on the keyboard
>> (or at least the beginning), then press Enter.  GNOME feels pretty
>> much designed to not be used by a mouse alone ;-)
>
> And that magic Super key is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_key_(keyboard_button)

On many keyboards it is also known as this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_key

In my opinion GNOME is not really usable without using that key, so that
might partly explain you being uncomfortable with it.

> And does it do tabs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Terminal#Tabs

Ansgar

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207627

On Wednesday 17 April 2019 03:17:22 Ansgar Burchardt wrote:

> Gene Heskett writes:
> > On Tuesday 16 April 2019 13:32:38 Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> >> Gene Heskett writes:
> >> > Where the heck in its confusing menu's can I find a tab
> >> > supporting terminal so I can get something done? Go ahead, find
> >> > it, my coffee needs to cool anyway..
> >>
> >> You press the magic Super key, then type "Terminal" on the keyboard
> >> (or at least the beginning), then press Enter.  GNOME feels pretty
> >> much designed to not be used by a mouse alone ;-)
> >
> > And that magic Super key is?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_key_(keyboard_button)
>
> On many keyboards it is also known as this:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_key
>
> In my opinion GNOME is not really usable without using that key, so
> that might partly explain you being uncomfortable with it.
>
> > And does it do tabs?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Terminal#Tabs
>
> Ansgar

Thats nice.  The terminals it has offered me from its menu's however have 
been stripped of such useful features. And since I've not owned a 
windows machine since 2002 that key with the squares on it has never 
been a usefull key to me. And I just checked, it does nothing here.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207657

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 01:32:38 PM Ansgar Burchardt wrote:
> You press the magic Super key, 

What is the magic Super key, and / or how do I find it on a typical 104 (or 
similar) key keyboard?


> then type "Terminal" on the keyboard (or
> at least the beginning), then press Enter.  GNOME feels pretty much
> designed to not be used by a mouse alone ;-)
> 
> Ansgar

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207666

On 18/4/19 5:11 am, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> What is the magic Super key, and / or how do I find it on a typical 104 (or
> similar) key keyboard?


It is another 'shift' key, like ctrl, alt. Generally near the left set 
of these. My laptop also has a fn key here.   It can be set to act on 
its own as well - often opens the Menu

-- 
Keith Bainbridge

ke1th3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207636

Gene Heskett wrote:
...
> This is still wheezy, because except for firefox, it Just Works.  Theres 
> another 2T drive with the latest stretch installed on it in this machine 
> and I was in the process of moving my stuff to it with the intention of 
> updating to Buster when it was declared stable. That came to a 
> screeching halt when I read that synaptic was gone from buster.

  what?  synaptic is a GUI interface to package installation
and removal.  why should this block anything?  dpkg and apt
do those tasks just fine in a terminal.  i only used synaptic
in the past to get a quick access to lists of files installed 
and locations which i now get another way.  it certainly isn't
a requirement...

  as far as a windowing desktop that does what i want i have
been using MATE since i got whiplashed by KDE (i liked it
and finally got my desktop set up how i wanted it and then
they ruined that so i switched to GNOME and just had that
set up and going how i wanted it and they f'd that up too).

  i don't need a lot of flashy window stuff, i just want it
to work and be reliable enough that i don't have to relearn
a new interface or keystrokes every time the next version
comes along.


> What I 
> do next is still open for discussion. 3 of the 4 other machine tool 
> driving machines on my network are also on wheezy, with the 4th, an 
> r-pi-3b running a 3/4 ton lathe, running jessie, poorly. Good, realtime 
> kernels and armhf are not on the best of terms, yet I get power failure 
> to power failure uptimes.

  you must be on fairly good power supply if running that 
large a machine...

  also above i'm not sure what you mean by tabbed?  i have
text terminal windows here with tabs without problems.


  songbird

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207685

On 4/17/19 5:57 AM, songbird wrote:

>    what?  synaptic is a GUI interface to package installation
> and removal.  why should this block anything?  dpkg and apt
> do those tasks just fine in a terminal.  i only used synaptic
> in the past to get a quick access to lists of files installed
> and locations which i now get another way.  it certainly isn't
> a requirement...


Synaptic is able to install different versions of packages, allowing a 
Disabled User who is not a keyboard jockey to test Debian release's and 
a lot more.  But I no longer care because it hurts to care, Deb has been 
raped and will never be mentally or usably the same and Microsoft is 
happy, I'm glad someone is happy.
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

Current - KDE - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda11
Registered Linux User #380263

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207686

Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> songbird wrote:
>
>>    what?  synaptic is a GUI interface to package installation
>> and removal.  why should this block anything?  dpkg and apt
>> do those tasks just fine in a terminal.  i only used synaptic
>> in the past to get a quick access to lists of files installed
>> and locations which i now get another way.  it certainly isn't
>> a requirement...
>
>
> Synaptic is able to install different versions of packages, allowing a 
> Disabled User who is not a keyboard jockey to test Debian release's and 
> a lot more.  But I no longer care because it hurts to care, Deb has been 
> raped and will never be mentally or usably the same and Microsoft is 
> happy, I'm glad someone is happy.

  i'm sorry your experience isn't what you'd like but i
don't understand your language or what you are talking
about.

  i can install or remove different versions of packages
or do installs of different versions of debian in 
different partitions or using virtual machines (but i've
not had to do this as of yet).  this has nothing to do 
with synaptic or being a "keyboard jockey" (whatever
that means).

  if you can type a message as you've done above you
can type package names on a command line and you can
specify different versions to apt or apt-get or dpkg.
the learning curve isn't impossible.


  songbird

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207687

On April 18, 2019 7:56:06 PM Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/17/19 5:57 AM, songbird wrote:
>
>> what?  synaptic is a GUI interface to package installation
>> and removal.  why should this block anything?  dpkg and apt
>> do those tasks just fine in a terminal.  i only used synaptic
>> in the past to get a quick access to lists of files installed
>> and locations which i now get another way.  it certainly isn't
>> a requirement...
>
>
> Synaptic is able to install different versions of packages, allowing a
> Disabled User who is not a keyboard jockey to test Debian release's and
> a lot more.  But I no longer care because it hurts to care, Deb has been
> raped and will never be mentally or usably the same and Microsoft is
> happy, I'm glad someone is happy.
> --
> Jimmy Johnson
>
> Current - KDE - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda11
> Registered Linux User #380263

I too depend on Synaptic.
Lucky me, I use Mate and it does not conflict, no Wayland or Gnome.
I have been successfully installing the Synaptic .deb from the sid 
archive... so I am good, but it is a bothersome task I would prefer to avoid.
I think the typical KDE or Gnome users want their own simplified package 
manager, or they have a great memory and type skillfully... I do not.
Hopefully the installer team can package it properly for us, less work.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207557

	Hi.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 12:35:29PM +0000, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> >>>>> "R" == Reco  <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> writes:
> 
> 
> R> As we saw two weeks ago, the decision to run GNOME on Wayland
> R> backfired at synaptic. To rephrase, why bother running X if there
> R> are no applications left to run on X?
> 
> Because I like and I use a lot remote display. Because I prefer it
> user program.

So do I, occasionally. It's not a silver bullet, but does the job if the
target host two-three hops from you. Unless you're doing something
really strange like trying to watch the video via "ssh -X" (a hint -
don't).


> If you have only your machine, having or not having "network
> transparency" does not matter. If you live in a network, it matters.

And that's the thing. The network transparency some of us love and use
does not exist in Wayland.
They do offer some bastardized version of RDP, but it has no ability to
connect to an existing session, and there's nothing even remotely close
to my favorite "ssh -X".


> >> Gnome goal is noble, to let unskilled users use it.
> 
> R> I recall hearing similar rhetoric 25 years ago. Some Operating
> R> System who's name starts with big W, and it had 4-color flag for
> R> logo. Some say that rise in popularity of said OS involved an
> R> unspecified amount of unconventional off-market negotiations and a
> R> bag of dirty tricks.
> 
> And a band of rebels gathering around a penguin totem in the name of
> freedom. 
> 
> Gnome at least should not chain them in proprietary software.

I never said that members of GNOME project are Satan incarnates.
They write and distribute free (as in freedom) software. It's popular,
whenever it's due to the design or in spite of it.
What does ring some warning bells are methods (see above) that some of
those people utilize to gain that popularity, and a collateral damage to
non-GNOME software.

> 
> R> The way things go right now with the GNOME all those impressive
> R> tricks will be obsolete. Unless, of course, some kind soul moves
> R> that "sway" thing from the experimental to sid.  Because AFAIK
> R> there are only four "Wayland window managers" (it's techically
> R> incorrect to call them that, I know), and only two of them made
> R> into buster so far (GNOME's mutter and weston, the reference one).
> 
> Add one more reason to use X.

My main reason to continue to use X in buster. I got used to my openbox
setup.

Reco

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207612

On 17/4/19 12:06 am, Reco wrote:
> They write and distribute free (as in freedom) software. It's popular,
> whenever it's due to the design or in spite of it.

I happened across this a Wikipedia while clarifying another comment here:
<<
GNOME 3 is the default desktop environment on many major Linux 
distributions including Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE Linux Enterprise 
(exclusively), Red Hat Enterprise Linux, CentOS, Oracle Linux, 
Scientific Linux, SteamOS, Tails, Kali Linux, Antergos and Endless OS; 
it is also default on Solaris, a major Unix operating system. Also, the 
continued fork of the last GNOME 2 release that goes under the name MATE 
is default on many distributions that targets low usage of system 
resources.
 >>
If so many distro's ship with gnome as default, no wonder it is popular.


I also think there is something odd (perhaps ironic?) that my preferred 
desktop is Mate - when I am protesting the desktop that is/was related 
to Mate so closely.


As somebody said - things change.


-- 
Keith Bainbridge

ke1th3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207621

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:58:34 +1000
Keith Bainbridge <ke1th3216@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 17/4/19 12:06 am, Reco wrote:
> > They write and distribute free (as in freedom) software. It's
> > popular, whenever it's due to the design or in spite of it.  
> 
> I happened across this a Wikipedia while clarifying another comment
> here: <<
> GNOME 3 is the default desktop environment on many major Linux 
> distributions including Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE Linux Enterprise 
> (exclusively), Red Hat Enterprise Linux, CentOS, Oracle Linux, 
> Scientific Linux, SteamOS, Tails, Kali Linux, Antergos and Endless
> OS; it is also default on Solaris, a major Unix operating system.
> Also, the continued fork of the last GNOME 2 release that goes under
> the name MATE is default on many distributions that targets low usage
> of system resources.
>  >>  
> If so many distro's ship with gnome as default, no wonder it is
> popular.
> 

To say that something is 'default' for many distributions is not the
same thing as saying 'many, many people use it'. I still use a few bits
of Gnome, including Network Manager on my portables, but the last time I
used the DE was at the introduction of Gnome 3, when a sid upgrade left
me with a command prompt. I do expect sid to have occasional issues,but
not to the extent of the complete and permanent loss of graphical
capability. 'We won't support legacy video hardware', said Gnome, and I
said 'fair enough, I won't support Gnome'.

I found later that my video stuff did have hardware acceleration, that
I had never known about or needed, but that isn't the point. Debian is
first and foremost known for its continuous upgrade path, which is
unusual, but then also for its ability to use old hardware. Gnome 3
cannot by definition use hardware which is moderately old.

-- 
Joe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207610

On 16/4/19 9:01 pm, Reco wrote:
> 
>> And for those there should be at least a good document about doing
>> it.
> Agreed.
> 
> 
+1 - as long as somebody with a good dollop of Asperger syndrome can 
interpret it.

-- 
Keith Bainbridge

ke1th3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207609

On 16/4/19 8:38 pm, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
>>> I say this is NOT freedom.
> R> The usual arguments apply.  Don't like it - patch it. Patches are
> R> welcome.
> 
> Say, "can you translate Odissey from ancient greek to Rovigo dialect?"
> 
> That is a petty example (if you can, my kudos!), patching is not a
> thing this easy to do. You have to be a programmer good enought, then
> you have to understando how the program works and how to change
> it. Then you have to write the changes and possibly test it against
> existing test cases, it requires skills, it requires time.
> 
> Gnome goal is noble, to let unskilled users use it. But there are
> other users, not this unskilled but lacking, who knows, time and
> wishing nevertheless that some option was available, say, running
> WindowMaker on top of Gnome daemons. And for those there should be at
> least a good document about doing it. And not leaving them being
> forced to do something like a "triple backward sommersault" for doing
> these changes.
> 
> This is more a "distribution level" choice, like "install Debian
> Desktop something like a (better and improved) 1999 machine", at
> least with the configuration working the old way.
> 
> It is not easy, it requires resources too. But these are my two cents.


Come on - I claimed 2 bob. You must be worth more


I fall right into that description - no way could I construct a patch. I 
buckled at the knees when I found that I could edit CSS code to achieve 
the tool-bar at the side.

I tried java about 15 years ago, and failed miserably. Perhaps a bad 
choice, but what the Uni course I was trying to get into required. I can 
write a script and alias's in .bashrc, the odd macro in Calc. I keep 
telling my friends it's never too late to learn, but at 71, I figure I 
can serenely claim that's enough.


-- 
Keith Bainbridge

ke1th3216@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#207661

On 4/16/19 11:32 PM, Keith Bainbridge wrote:

> I tried java about 15 years ago, and failed miserably. Perhaps a bad 
> choice, but what the Uni course I was trying to get into required. I can 
> write a script and alias's in .bashrc, the odd macro in Calc. I keep 
> telling my friends it's never too late to learn, but at 71, I figure I 
> can serenely claim that's enough.


I'm pushing 70 and the last time I programmed anything was "Hunt the 
Wumpus" in AppleSoft basic on a plugin card on my Integer Basic Apple][ 
in 1978. Yoho! Ric

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web