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Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email

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  Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 14:40 +0200
    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Thomas Pircher <thp+debian@p5r.uk> - 2019-04-08 15:20 +0200
      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 15:50 +0200
      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-04-09 01:00 +0200
      RESOLVED: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-11 18:10 +0200
    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Ryan Nowakowski <tubaman@fattuba.com> - 2019-04-08 15:30 +0200
      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 15:40 +0200
    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-04-08 15:40 +0200
      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 16:40 +0200
    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-04-08 17:50 +0200
      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-04-09 03:50 +0200
    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Jan Claeys <lists@janc.be> - 2019-04-09 02:40 +0200
      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-11 17:50 +0200
        Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-04-11 18:00 +0200
          Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2019-04-11 18:20 +0200
        Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-04-11 18:10 +0200
          Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-11 18:20 +0200
            Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-12 10:00 +0200
              Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-04-12 12:10 +0200
                Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-12 12:30 +0200
                  Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-04-12 13:10 +0200
                  Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-04-12 14:00 +0200
                    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-12 14:40 +0200
                      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-12 15:30 +0200
                        Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-04-12 17:00 +0200
                    Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2019-04-12 23:20 +0200
                      Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-13 00:20 +0200
        Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-11 18:10 +0200
        Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-04-11 18:20 +0200
        Re: Simple Linux to Linux(Debian) email Jan Claeys <lists@janc.be> - 2019-04-11 19:10 +0200

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#207370

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mick crane wrote:
> On 2019-04-12 10:57, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> mick crane wrote:
>>> On 2019-04-11 17:16, mick crane wrote:
>>>> On 2019-04-11 17:05, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 05:02:46PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
>>>>>> I think that is what dynamic ip address services do, change the
>>>>>> ipaddress
>>>>>> but the service has to be on the ISP's router ?
>>>>>> Do I understand correctly then when your isp/home address changes
>>>>>> your box
>>>>>> broadcasts its domain new address to the internet ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It doesn't have to be on the router.  You can set up a hook in 
>>>>> Debian
>>>>> to run an arbitrary command whenever your IP address is changed by
>>>>> DHCP.
>>>>> This hook receives the old and new IP addresses, and some other
>>>>> things,
>>>>> as environment variables.  It's about 3 lines of code to set it up.
>>>>> No
>>>>> parsing of the output of any ip or ifconfig command is needed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://mywiki.wooledge.org/IpAddress
>>>> 
>>>> I'll have a read but there must be something I don't understand.
>>>> Thought there was a hierarchy of domain names mapped to ipaddresses
>>>> that all the different servers can query as to where something is.
>>> 
>>> Ok I think I see, you can host your own domain if you have a fixed
>>> ipaddress but if have ipaddress that changes need to register domain
>>> name and have company host it and advertise they know where it is but
>>> can change the nameservers for the domain from theirs to yours at
>>> changed ipaddress.
>>> You can't willy nilly broadcast any domain to the internet yourself.
>> 
>> Well, once your domain is registered (for example, mine), you can 
>> either
>> 
>> 
>>   1. give your registrar the IP address they should point the domain 
>> to.
>>       This is easiest with static IP address assignments from your ISP,
>>       but there's no reason you couldn't do it on a dynamic IP
>> 
>>   OR
>> 
>>   2. Use a dynamic DNS provider (e.g. dyndns, no-ip, afraid, many
>>       others), and have them automatically update the DNS registration
>>       when your IP address changes.
>> 
>> Note that for option 2, you tell your registrar to use those other
>> nameservers, rather than their own.
>> 
>> I use option 2 myself, registered via ... oh I think 1&1 ... but using
>> no-ip to provide my dyndns (although the IP hasn't changed in well over
>> a year - I still don't want to be caught unawares :) )
>
> I thought those dynamic dns services offered a sub domain of their own 
> domains.

Yes, that's for the freebie service (where offered).  I think it's
$14.95 for the year from no-ip service for my domain.

> Can you have any registered domain point to dynamic dns servers and them 
> redirect it ?

If it's yours, and you're paying enough to the service.

> I have wondered what they do to stop people broadcasting their own top 
> level domain.

They can't; at least not publicly.  There's a hierarchy to DNS servers,
and, well, it'd take some doing to supplant the root servers.

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-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#207372

mick crane wrote: 
> I have wondered what they do to stop people broadcasting their own top level
> domain.

Nothing. They don't have to.

If you want a top level domain and you control your own
nameservers, you've got it.

But nobody else is likely to query your nameservers about it, so
it won't be used by anyone else.

This can actually be useful: you can define .crane for use
within your house, and now you have names that nobody else will
see.

-dsr-

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#207376

On Friday 12 April 2019 07:54:57 Dan Ritter wrote:

> mick crane wrote:
> > I have wondered what they do to stop people broadcasting their own
> > top level domain.
>
> Nothing. They don't have to.
>
> If you want a top level domain and you control your own
> nameservers, you've got it.
>
> But nobody else is likely to query your nameservers about it, so
> it won't be used by anyone else.
>
> This can actually be useful: you can define .crane for use
> within your house, and now you have names that nobody else will
> see.
>
> -dsr-

And since I've been doing that since my amiga/dialup  days, I can testify 
that it works well.  One of the smartest dogs I ever knew was half 
coyote, so this has been the coyote.den since the late 90's. Nice 
private little now 8 machine network when everything is running, and as 
long as I turn the radios off, nobody bothers me.  And vice-versa.  
Seems no one has setup a radio login yet a smart phone can't crack in 30 
seconds or less.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#207379

On 2019-04-12 13:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 12 April 2019 07:54:57 Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
>> mick crane wrote:
>> > I have wondered what they do to stop people broadcasting their own
>> > top level domain.
>> 
>> Nothing. They don't have to.
>> 
>> If you want a top level domain and you control your own
>> nameservers, you've got it.
>> 
>> But nobody else is likely to query your nameservers about it, so
>> it won't be used by anyone else.
>> 
>> This can actually be useful: you can define .crane for use
>> within your house, and now you have names that nobody else will
>> see.
>> 
>> -dsr-
> 
> And since I've been doing that since my amiga/dialup  days, I can 
> testify
> that it works well.  One of the smartest dogs I ever knew was half
> coyote, so this has been the coyote.den since the late 90's. Nice
> private little now 8 machine network when everything is running, and as
> long as I turn the radios off, nobody bothers me.  And vice-versa.
> Seems no one has setup a radio login yet a smart phone can't crack in 
> 30
> seconds or less.
> 
maybe there's something I'm not understanding.
Is your box broadcasting on the internet I know where .den is ask me 
about it ?

mick

> Cheers, Gene Heskett

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#207387

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mick crane wrote:
> On 2019-04-12 13:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Friday 12 April 2019 07:54:57 Dan Ritter wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> This can actually be useful: you can define .crane for use
>>> within your house, and now you have names that nobody else will
>>> see.
>>> 
>>> -dsr-
>> 
>> And since I've been doing that since my amiga/dialup  days, I can 
>> testify that it works well.  One of the smartest dogs I ever knew was
>> half coyote, so this has been the coyote.den since the late 90's.
>> [...]
>> 
> maybe there's something I'm not understanding.
> Is your box broadcasting on the internet I know where .den is ask me 
> about it ?

No ".den" is local to Gene's network, and is not accessible to anyone
not on that network.

If he wants to access things from the internet, he'll need an
internet-resolvable domain (e.g. "coyoteden.net").


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-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#207405

On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 07:54:57 -0400
Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:

> mick crane wrote: 
> > I have wondered what they do to stop people broadcasting their own top level
> > domain.
> 
> Nothing. They don't have to.
> 
> If you want a top level domain and you control your own
> nameservers, you've got it.
> 
> But nobody else is likely to query your nameservers about it, so
> it won't be used by anyone else.
> 
> This can actually be useful: you can define .crane for use
> within your house, and now you have names that nobody else will
> see.

And there are actually alternative DNS roots:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root

Celejar

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#207413

On 2019-04-12 16:11, Celejar wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 07:54:57 -0400
> Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote:
> 
>> mick crane wrote:
>> > I have wondered what they do to stop people broadcasting their own top level
>> > domain.
>> 
>> Nothing. They don't have to.
>> 
>> If you want a top level domain and you control your own
>> nameservers, you've got it.
>> 
>> But nobody else is likely to query your nameservers about it, so
>> it won't be used by anyone else.
>> 
>> This can actually be useful: you can define .crane for use
>> within your house, and now you have names that nobody else will
>> see.
> 
> And there are actually alternative DNS roots:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root

I have wondered about this because think when all started it was the 
intention of a cooperative of computers advertising where they were and 
where everybody else was so as to be  difficult to disrupt the 
connections whereas now it seems different to that.
Obviously there has to be some agreement about who represents what.




> Celejar

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#207325

On 2019-04-11 16:42, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2019 at 02:34:30AM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote:
>> On Mon, 2019-04-08 at 21:33 +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
>> > I've created a very simple script that is capable of parsing the
>> > output of "ip addr" and comparing the returned ip address for the
>> > relevant interface to a stored ip address, and thus being able to
>> > tell if the IP address has changed. What I'd like to do now is make a
>> > means for the LFS box to be able to notify me of the fact that the
>> > external-facing IP address has changed.
>> 
>> Why not use a dynamic DNS provider?
>> 
>> 
> Primarily because it wouldn't solve my problem. IIUC it would allow me
> to map a domain name to the IP address assigned to my home internet
> connection. That means that when the IP address assigned to my internet
> connection changes, I can simply alter the mapping and my VPN clients
> start working again, without any configuration change on them. Great,
> but that isn't the problem. The problem is how I know that the IP
> address has changed and hence the DNS mapping needs updating. I don't
> see any way that a dynamic DNS service is going to know when my ISP
> arbitrarily re-assigns my IP. I need the machine that is being assigned
> the IP address to be able to tell me when it changes, and that is what
> this thread was about (specifically the "how it would be able to tell
> me" -- I'd figured out the "how it would know" for myself).
> 
> But thanks for trying to help anyway!
> 
> Mark

I think that is what dynamic ip address services do, change the 
ipaddress
but the service has to be on the ISP's router ?
Do I understand correctly then when your isp/home address changes your 
box broadcasts its domain new address to the internet ?

mick
-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#207328

Mark Fletcher wrote: 
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2019 at 02:34:30AM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote:
> > On Mon, 2019-04-08 at 21:33 +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> > > I've created a very simple script that is capable of parsing the
> > > output of "ip addr" and comparing the returned ip address for the
> > > relevant interface to a stored ip address, and thus being able to
> > > tell if the IP address has changed. What I'd like to do now is make a
> > > means for the LFS box to be able to notify me of the fact that the
> > > external-facing IP address has changed. 
> > 
> > Why not use a dynamic DNS provider?
> > 
> > 
> Primarily because it wouldn't solve my problem. IIUC it would allow me 
> to map a domain name to the IP address assigned to my home internet 
> connection. That means that when the IP address assigned to my internet 
> connection changes, I can simply alter the mapping and my VPN clients 
> start working again, without any configuration change on them. Great, 
> but that isn't the problem. The problem is how I know that the IP 
> address has changed and hence the DNS mapping needs updating. I don't 
> see any way that a dynamic DNS service is going to know when my ISP 
> arbitrarily re-assigns my IP. I need the machine that is being assigned 
> the IP address to be able to tell me when it changes, and that is what 
> this thread was about (specifically the "how it would be able to tell 
> me" -- I'd figured out the "how it would know" for myself).

... if the IP address is being changed by DHCP, do you suppose
your dhcp client has a hook to tell other things about it?

man dhclient-script

...
 After all processing has completed,  /sbin/dhclient-script checks  for
 the  presence  of  an  executable /etc/dhcp/dhclient-exit-hooks script,
 which if present is invoked using  the  '.'  command.  All  executable
 scripts  in  /etc/dhcp/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/*  are also invoked.
...

Not to mention:

man ddclient

...
DESCRIPTION
       A perl based client to update your dynamic IP address at
       DynDNS.com (or other dynamic DNS services such as Hammernode,
       Zoneedit or EasyDNS), thus allowing you and others to use a fixed
       hostname (myhost.dyndns.org) to access your machine.  This client
       supports both the dynamic and (near) static services, MX setting,
       and alternative host. It caches the address, and only attempts
       the update if the address actually changes.
...


-dsr-

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#207330

On Fri, 2019-04-12 at 00:42 +0900, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2019 at 02:34:30AM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote:
> > Why not use a dynamic DNS provider?
> > 
> > 
> Primarily because it wouldn't solve my problem. IIUC it would allow
> me to map a domain name to the IP address assigned to my home
> internet connection. That means that when the IP address assigned to
> my internet connection changes, I can simply alter the mapping and my
> VPN clients start working again, without any configuration change on
> them.
> Great, but that isn't the problem. The problem is how I know that the
> IP address has changed and hence the DNS mapping needs updating. I
> don't see any way that a dynamic DNS service is going to know when my
> ISP arbitrarily re-assigns my IP. I need the machine that is being
> assigned the IP address to be able to tell me when it changes, and
> that is what  this thread was about (specifically the "how it would
> be able to tell me" -- I'd figured out the "how it would know" for
> myself).

Many routers know how to update popular dynamic DNS providers when the
WAN IP address changes.  If your router can't do this, or your computer
is connected to the internet directly, then there are also several
utilities which can do this in the Debian repositories.


-- 
Jan Claeys

(please don't CC me when replying to the list)

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