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May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

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  May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Martin <keine-eile@online.de> - 2019-04-08 12:40 +0200
    Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Markus Schönhaber <debian-user@list-post.mks-mail.de> - 2019-04-08 12:50 +0200
      Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Martin <keine-eile@online.de> - 2019-04-08 13:30 +0200
    Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2019-04-08 14:10 +0200
      Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Martin <keine-eile@online.de> - 2019-04-08 14:20 +0200
    Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-08 20:30 +0200
      Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-04-08 21:30 +0200
        Re: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-08 22:00 +0200
    Fixed: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Martin <keine-eile@online.de> - 2019-04-11 10:30 +0200
      Re: Fixed: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-04-11 14:20 +0200

#207115 — May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

Hi list,

since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have to press twice.
Who can tell me why?
And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...

1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.


Thanks, Martin

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#207116

Martin, 8.4.2019 12:29 +0200:

> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have to press twice.
> Who can tell me why?
> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
> 
> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.

By choosing a keyboard layout with "nodeadkeys" / "ohne Akzenttasten"
you'll probably get the old behaviour back where a single key press
makes such accented characters appear.

-- 
Regards
  mks

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#207117

Am 08.04.19 um 12:43 schrieb Markus Schönhaber:
> Martin, 8.4.2019 12:29 +0200:
> 
>> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have to press twice.
>> Who can tell me why?
>> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
>> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
>>
>> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.
> 
> By choosing a keyboard layout with "nodeadkeys" / "ohne Akzenttasten"

That is what I do.
Well, in lightdm/xfce4-settings this was working with generic German PC 105 keys without further options. Which I did not touch since ages.

> you'll probably get the old behaviour back where a single key press
> makes such accented characters appear.
> 

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#207118

On Monday, April 8, 2019 12:29:44 PM -04 Martin wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have
> to press twice. Who can tell me why?
> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
> 
> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Martin

Hi Martin,
do I understand correctly
a single press gave you ´ and with shift `?
so you were not able to write á and à by pressing the qq and then a?
Now one qq press and then a gives á?
Double press of qq now results in ´?

The latter is the normal behaviour of my Gerrman keyboard layout. For me it's 
useful because in a Spanish-speaking country I often need the accented 
characters. This is with layout "German (dead grave acute)".

You need to install "German (eliminate dead grave acute)" in your X-setup. I 
don't know about xfce but for me it is enough to change this in the KDE setup.

For programming and for the shell the behaviour with a single-press ´ is 
better of course.

I have no idea why this may have changed. Maybe look through the upgrade 
protocolls of apt, if you want to know what happened. If you have more than 
one keyboard layout installed (as I have) then a certain key-combination might 
have changed it unadvertently.

Have success and a nice day 

-- 
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Agencia Shopping del Sol
Casilla de Correo 13005
1749 Asuncion / Paraguay

Yes, grey does matter - within the skull.
For the 'Mercans: gray does matter.

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#207119

Am 08.04.19 um 14:05 schrieb Eike Lantzsch:
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 12:29:44 PM -04 Martin wrote:
>> Hi list,
>>
>> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single press. I have
>> to press twice. Who can tell me why?
>> And, ho do I get my old single press behavior back?
>> Sorry I don't get this keyboard magic in this life...
>>
>> 1) On a German keyboard, it is the key left of the backspace.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Martin
> 
> Hi Martin,
> do I understand correctly
> a single press gave you ´ and with shift `?

No, it is like composing a letter: Typing ´ once does nothing, second time, it gives you the character.

> so you were not able to write á and à by pressing the qq and then a?
> Now one qq press and then a gives á?
> Double press of qq now results in ´?
> 
> The latter is the normal behaviour of my Gerrman keyboard layout. For me it's 
> useful because in a Spanish-speaking country I often need the accented 
> characters. This is with layout "German (dead grave acute)".

I use 'nodeadkeys'.

> You need to install "German (eliminate dead grave acute)" in your X-setup. I 
> don't know about xfce but for me it is enough to change this in the KDE setup.

Well, it worked since 206 with this install. It just recently changed.

> For programming and for the shell the behaviour with a single-press ´ is 
> better of course.
> 
> I have no idea why this may have changed. Maybe look through the upgrade 
> protocolls of apt, if you want to know what happened. If you have more than 
> one keyboard layout installed (as I have) then a certain key-combination might 
> have changed it unadvertently.
> 
> Have success and a nice day 

Thanks.
As it is such a nice day, I will finish my work soon and go to the Biergarten a couple of minutes across. Cheers!

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#207152

On 2019.04.08 05:29, Martin wrote:
> since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single
> press.  I have to press twice.

The problem most likely is oxidation of the electrical contacts of the 
key switch.  The silver or gold plating of the contact surfaces may be 
compromised by mechanical wear.

Back in the 1970's, keyswitches were rated in terms of tens of millions 
or hundreds of millions of keystrokes; keyswitches of today are rated in 
terms of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of keystrokes.  
Search and read the manufacturer specification sheets for keyswitches.

A factor which exacerbates the situation is the ongoing effort to reduce 
energy consumption; nowadays voltages across keyswitch contacts can be 
too low to break through oxidation and the currents flowing through 
contacts may be too low to burn off the oxidation.

Research years ago by Honeywell Corporation revealed that gold-plated 
contacts are not always a good approach.  Though gold does not oxidize, 
the presence of oil vapour in the atmosphere can result in formation of 
an insulating polymer on gold contact surfaces.  Silver contacts appear 
to be the proper approach; silver oxide is conductive.

Mechanic design of the contacts also is a factor; when the contacts are 
bars or rods which cross at an angle, the contact pressure is higher 
pressure than if the contacts are in the shape of buttons.  The pressure 
helps break through oxidation.

Some manufacturers offer "lifetime" keyboards; but the lifetime in view 
appears to be that of the keyboard and not of the user.  Keyboards today 
can have a useful lifetime measured in months.  Much depends upon the 
environment in which the keyboard is used, particularly the atmospheric 
humidity.

The proper approach to the problem of low voltage and low current would 
be to design keyboards in which the keyswitch contact voltage and 
current are an order-of-magnitude higher than the voltage and current of 
the logic circuitry.

RLH

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#207153

rlharris@oplink.net wrote: 
> On 2019.04.08 05:29, Martin wrote:
> > since a few days, my qq(´) and qq(´)¹ don't work with a single
> > press.  I have to press twice.
> 
> The problem most likely is oxidation of the electrical contacts of the key
> switch.  The silver or gold plating of the contact surfaces may be
> compromised by mechanical wear.
> 
> Back in the 1970's, keyswitches were rated in terms of tens of millions or
> hundreds of millions of keystrokes; keyswitches of today are rated in terms
> of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of keystrokes.  Search and
> read the manufacturer specification sheets for keyswitches.


IBM Buckling Spring: nobody knows, but there are a lot of
keyboards still working 25-30 years later.

Cherry: 50 million.

https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/e005dff11a2e406babe9e8718fec9fc8835bb9ce/EN_CHERRY_MX_BLUE_RGB.pdf

Kailh: 50 - 80 million.

http://www.kailh.com/en/Products/Mechanical_keyboard_switch/165.html

Matias ALPS: 50 million.

http://matias.ca/switches/click/

Gaterons may be as low as 20 million.

You can buy all of the above today, in keyboards ranging from
about $60 to $450.

-dsr-

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#207155

On 2019.04.08 14:25, Dan Ritter wrote:
> IBM Buckling Spring: nobody knows, but there are a lot of
> keyboards still working 25-30 years later.
> 
> Cherry: 50 million.
> 
> https://www.cherrymx.de/_Resources/Persistent/e005dff11a2e406babe9e8718fec9fc8835bb9ce/EN_CHERRY_MX_BLUE_RGB.pdf
> 
> Kailh: 50 - 80 million.
> 
> http://www.kailh.com/en/Products/Mechanical_keyboard_switch/165.html
> 
> Matias ALPS: 50 million.
> 
> http://matias.ca/switches/click/
> 
> Gaterons may be as low as 20 million.
> 
> You can buy all of the above today, in keyboards ranging from
> about $60 to $450.

I had in mind a boxful of Logitech and Kessington keyboards purchased 
several years ago, as well as two Cherry purchased last year.

The Cherry specifications gave me high hopes regarding Cherry, and I 
paid a good price for the Cherry; but the switches of two of the three I 
purchased new are beginning to fail.

The old IBM you mention, of course, is of the category I mentioned, a 
design of another era.

As to keystroke specifications, I must question current test procedures. 
  In years past, I have experienced key plunger binding long before 
contact failure was evident.  Plunger design does not always take into 
account the reality of lateral force on the keycap.  The application of 
lubricant is no substitute for proper material selection regarding 
plunger and tube or body.  Nowadays, contact failure seems to be the 
primary failure mode.  Many factors must be considered in the design of 
a keyswitch.

Only with a warranty which provides advance replacement with no-charge 
delivery and return would I consider paying much over a hundred dollars 
for a keyboard.  When the cost of return shipping by UPS, FEDEX, or USPS 
is taken into account, a lifetime warranty on a $25 or $50 keyboard is 
meaningless.

RLH

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#207301 — Fixed: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

It's the ibus...something.
No idea what this does¹, but disabling/uninstalling this does the trick.

1) I know, there is documentation...

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#207305 — Re: Fixed: May be silly question, but: Lost my qq(´) and qq(´) key

	Hi.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 10:27:43AM +0200, Martin wrote:
> It's the ibus...something.
> No idea what this does¹, but disabling/uninstalling this does the trick.

Long story short, unless you're writing in Chinese, Japanese or Korean -
you don't need ibus.

Reco

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