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Groups > linux.debian.user > #206072 > unrolled thread

systemd error

Started byDefault User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com>
First post2019-03-08 22:20 +0100
Last post2019-03-10 15:10 +0100
Articles 6 on this page of 26 — 9 participants

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  systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-08 22:20 +0100
    Re: systemd error Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-03-09 08:50 +0100
      Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-10 03:50 +0100
        Re: systemd error Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-03-10 08:40 +0100
          Re: systemd error Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2019-03-10 12:10 +0100
            Re: systemd error Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-03-10 14:30 +0100
              Re: systemd error Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-03-10 16:30 +0100
                Re: systemd error Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-03-10 17:50 +0100
                Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-10 17:50 +0100
                  Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-10 20:50 +0100
                    Re: systemd error Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-03-10 21:10 +0100
                      Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-11 05:00 +0100
                        Re: systemd error Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2019-03-11 08:50 +0100
                          Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-11 13:50 +0100
                            Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-13 06:00 +0100
                              Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-13 06:10 +0100
                              Re: systemd error <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-13 09:50 +0100
                              Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-13 14:30 +0100
                              Re: systemd error Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-03-13 16:10 +0100
                                Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-13 19:20 +0100
                                Re: systemd error deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-13 21:30 +0100
                                  Re: systemd error <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-13 22:00 +0100
    Re: systemd error Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-03-09 10:30 +0100
      Re: systemd error Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2019-03-10 03:40 +0100
        Re: systemd error Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-03-10 10:40 +0100
          Re: systemd error Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-10 15:10 +0100

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#206238

Fromdeloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
Date2019-03-13 21:30 +0100
Message-ID<xBiFI-81W-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#206230
Dan Ritter wrote:

> Default User wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 04:49 Ivan Ivanov <qmastery16@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > Well, I know a good solution that will work 100%: switch from Debian
>> > to Devuan to avoid this SystemD. sadly Debian does not provide the
>> > init system freedom, but if you'd switch to its' brother distribution
>> > (Devuan) it still provides all the benefits of Debian + the freedom
>> > from SystemD.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for the suggestion, Ivan.
>> 
>> Actually, I had high hopes for Devuan. But I am afraid that it's just too
>> little, too late.
>> 
>> The cancer of systemd has metastasized too far and the GNU/Linux patent
>> is terminally ill.
>> 
>> How sad that once again, the bad guys won because good men did nothing.
> 
> In point of fact:
> 
> - I run several hundred Debian stretch systems without systemd
>   running as init, or doing very much otherwise.
> 
>   "apt install sysvinit-core" was all that is needed.
> 
> - Those are almost all servers, but also includes some desktops.
> 
> - The debian-init-diversity mail archives are here:
>  
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-init-diversity/2019-March/thread.html
>     and you can see that good work is being done on sysvinit,
>     startpar, insserv and elogind.
> 
> I don't know why this doesn't get more publicity.
> 
> If you are having problems with systemd and they feel intractable,
> it's perfectly reasonable to go back to sysvinit, and it's only a little
> work to move to openrc and a moderate amount to use completely different
> init systems.
> 
> -dsr-

Who seeks, he finds and I have actually installed:

ii  sysv-rc                                 2.88dsf-59.9                               
all          System-V-like runlevel change mechanism
ii  sysvinit-core                           2.88dsf-59.9                               
amd64        System-V-like init utilities
ii  sysvinit-utils                          2.88dsf-59.9                               
amd64        System-V-like utilities

and it works great. My problem with systemd is not that it is bad, but that
it was pushed too early to the public like KDE4 - many things not working
or not working properly and this upsets one like me that is used to
stability. I do not have the time or the will to deal with problems
suddenly popping up out of nowhere. 
Looking at the background of systemd it makes sense especially for
desktop/notebook system or interdependant services. In fact my Sailfish
phone works great with systemd.

So the debian-init-diversity decision was the best and my respect goes to
the people behind it. It is great to have freedom of choice!

However I do not find my way through the link. I prefer

https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd

and the parent

https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem

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#206241

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2019-03-13 22:00 +0100
Message-ID<xBj8J-8dh-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#206238

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 09:05:39PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> Dan Ritter wrote:

[...]

> > In point of fact:

[...]

> Who seeks, he finds and I have actually installed:

Thanks Dan and deloptes for bringing some sanity into this. And
thanks to all Debian folks who, in spite of all that mud flying
around keep init alternatives viable. And to those working on
systemd.

Cheers
-- t

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#206077

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2019-03-09 10:30 +0100
Message-ID<xzGsN-39J-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#206072
On 2019-03-08, Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> doofus@doofus:~$ sudo systemctl status
> [sudo] password for doofus:
> doofus
>     State: degraded
>      Jobs: 0 queued
>    Failed: 1 units

I believe sudo (or root) isn't required for this command (nor is it
needed for some of the other, interrogative systemctl commands further
down, which I've snipped in the interests of brevity).

Elevated privileges are needed for starting and stopping services, of
course.

As keystroke frugality is one of the frequently expressed ideals of the
group (though often when other arguments seem unconvincing), if only
for that I thought you'd like to know.

-- 
“Let us again pretend that life is a solid substance, shaped like a globe,
which we turn about in our fingers. Let us pretend that we can make out a plain
and logical story, so that when one matter is despatched--love for instance--
we go on, in an orderly manner, to the next.” - Virginia Woolf, The Waves

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#206087

FromDefault User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com>
Date2019-03-10 03:40 +0100
Message-ID<xzWxA-4P2-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#206077

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:21 AM Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:

> On 2019-03-08, Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > doofus@doofus:~$ sudo systemctl status
> > [sudo] password for doofus:
> > doofus
> >     State: degraded
> >      Jobs: 0 queued
> >    Failed: 1 units
>
> I believe sudo (or root) isn't required for this command (nor is it
> needed for some of the other, interrogative systemctl commands further
> down, which I've snipped in the interests of brevity).
>
> Elevated privileges are needed for starting and stopping services, of
> course.
>
> As keystroke frugality is one of the frequently expressed ideals of the
> group (though often when other arguments seem unconvincing), if only
> for that I thought you'd like to know.
>
> --
> “Let us again pretend that life is a solid substance, shaped like a globe,
> which we turn about in our fingers. Let us pretend that we can make out a
> plain
> and logical story, so that when one matter is despatched--love for
> instance--
> we go on, in an orderly manner, to the next.” - Virginia Woolf, The Waves
>



Curt, I often use sudo [command] even when not needed, because the sudo
elevated privileges state  "times out" after several minutes, reverting to
unprivileged user state. So if I need to enter another command with
elevated privileges after the elevated privilege state expires, I have to
re-enter the password again, instead of just sudo [command].

I guess i'm just lazy.

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#206091

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2019-03-10 10:40 +0100
Message-ID<xA361-B3-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#206087
On 2019-03-10, Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Curt, I often use sudo [command] even when not needed, because the sudo
> elevated privileges state  "times out" after several minutes, reverting to
> unprivileged user state. So if I need to enter another command with
> elevated privileges after the elevated privilege state expires, I have to
> re-enter the password again, instead of just sudo [command].
>
> I guess i'm just lazy.

I don't use sudo and was unaware of this timeout feature.

The timeout interval is configurable, though.

man sudoers:

 timestamp_timeout 
    Number of minutes that can elapse before sudo will ask for a passwd again.
    The timeout may include a fractional component if minute granularity is
    insufficient, for example 2.5. The default is 15. Set this to 0 to always
    prompt for a password. If set to a value less than 0 the user's time stamp will
    not expire until the system is rebooted.  -- 

The advisability of lengthening or eliminating the timeout is probably related
to the possibility of the kitty (and other, less cool cats) creeping by to paw
a detrimental command or two into your privileged xterm while you're out
grilling one on the stoop.

-- 
“Let us again pretend that life is a solid substance, shaped like a globe,
which we turn about in our fingers. Let us pretend that we can make out a plain
and logical story, so that when one matter is despatched--love for instance--
we go on, in an orderly manner, to the next.” - Virginia Woolf, The Waves

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#206100

FromCindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com>
Date2019-03-10 15:10 +0100
Message-ID<xA7jj-3mQ-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#206091
On 3/10/19, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:

> I don't use sudo and was unaware of this timeout feature.
>
> The timeout interval is configurable, though.
>
> man sudoers:
>
>  timestamp_timeout
>     Number of minutes that can elapse before sudo will ask for a passwd
> again.
>     The timeout may include a fractional component if minute granularity is
>     insufficient, for example 2.5. The default is 15. Set this to 0 to
> always
>     prompt for a password. If set to a value less than 0 the user's time
> stamp will
>     not expire until the system is rebooted.  --
>
> The advisability of lengthening or eliminating the timeout is probably
> related
> to the possibility of the kitty (and other, less cool cats) creeping by to
> paw
> a detrimental command or two into your privileged xterm while you're out
> grilling one on the stoop.


It always feels like the timeout is somewhere around 10 minutes... or
so. 15, you say. CHECK! (Tick?!)

The fur ball deal, I'm feeling that scenario..

E.g. and for example, what if one day a Debian User who shall remain
"Nameless" clicks out...

"sudo thunar /"

Then right clicks over /usr to view "Properties" for whatever data
seeking reason..

Then next hits "ESC" escape to exit the Properties [window] which, on
many if not most occasions, leaves /usr still actively highlighted in
the as yet still open Thunar file managing window.

Nameless the (carbo-craving) Nerd then suddenly runs to the window to
check out that thump out front. That thump likely heralds their highly
anticipated next 18 pounds of angel hair spaghetti pasta newly arrived
on the front porch stoop.

Meanwhile back at the hastily abandoned computer, a curiosity seeking
fur ball's front right paw has just been firmly planted on the easily
accessible "DEL" delete key..

Which, by innate nature of the beast, next invokes the *much adored,
highly protective* popup window that advises, "This is your last
chance bailout > Are you *SURRRE* you want to take that woefully
un-recoupable, negatory type action?"

That would be the same popup advisement window that... um... just
happens to have the "Delete" button graciously highlighted by default.

Likewise by innate nature of the beast, the curiosity seeking fur
ball's front left foot now next....

Steps on the "Enter" key a la one foot in front of the other, soon
you'll be walking out the door, yada-yada Kris Kringle, Winter
Warlock, Topper the (Linux) Penguin.

I've had something like the above almost occur. More than once, too.
It's a fur real actually could happen.... in a (heart stopping)
heartbeat and apparently with about 14 1/2 minutes of sudo invoked
admin authority left to spare. Go, Kitty!

PS Those close calls always next invoke the "OMG, BACK UP THE COMPUTER
*NOW*!" moment. Yeah, yeah, I know, backups should have already been
done... Living #Life on the edge... yada-yada. :D

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

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